Pakistan Navy | News & Discussions

[Pak-Warrior]

just noticed, babur is setup to fit some very big ASHMs View attachment 162199

Isn't it same size available as with other main surface combatants we have ? From satellite view zoomed it appears to be same. Or are you referring to bigger exhaust window?

Anyways, its going to be SMASH (more likely) or CM-302. Both are only supersonic options available to us. I assume CM-302 to be more deadlier though.

 

[Ibbi32]

Isn't it same size available as with other main surface combatants we have ? From satellite view zoomed it appears to be same. Or are you referring to bigger exhaust window?

Anyways, its going to be SMASH (more likely) or CM-302. Both are only supersonic options available to us. I assume CM-302 to be more deadlier though.

If cm302 was more deadlier there would be no need to develop smash. Not to mention its much shorter range. Pakistan is responding to brahmos both symmetricaly and assymetricaly

 

[Princeps]

If cm302 was more deadlier there would be no need to develop smash. Not to mention its much shorter range. Pakistan is responding to brahmos both symmetricaly and assymetricaly

Developing indigenous capabilities always makes sense regardless of how capable foreign weapons are. SMASH was originally supposed to be a supersonic cruise missile, or at least that was the prevailing opinion. Eventually though it seems they settled on a Fatah-2 derivative. We likely failed to get the ToT for CM302, which prompted the change.

There isn't much of a difference between CM302's MTCR limited range of 290 km and SMASH's 300-350 km. But, SMASH being a rocket should make it very cost effective in comparison to a Ramjet cruise missile.

 

[Ak01]

MASH was originally supposed to be a supersonic cruise missile, or at least that was the prevailing opinion

there are and were two programs.

an ashbm and a cruiser, it was two distinct programs

 

[Anonymous25]

there are and were two programs.

an ashbm and a cruiser, it was two distinct programs

Any update on the cruise missile program?

 

[Pak-Warrior]

If cm302 was more deadlier there would be no need to develop smash. Not to mention its much shorter range. Pakistan is responding to brahmos both symmetricaly and assymetricaly

Many reasons why I consider CM302 the most advance Antiship missile in PN arsenal ( so far).

CM302 is a supersonic cruise missile. It flies at very low altitude making it extremely difficult for radars to detect it sooner. ASBMs like SMASH announce their launch and position of launch platform as soon as they gain enough altitude. Every active sensor, radar will detect a launch. You will get more reaction time to prepare for interception. Whereas CM302s will give much lesser time for reaction.

Secondly, the speed of CM302 is reportedly between Mach 2.5 to Mach 4. Significantly much higher then SMASH.

Lastly, range of both missiles is about same. YJ12 (CM302 is export name) has range of about 500 KM. Now like PL-15 where people here used to discuss whether we only had PL-15Es or the original ones, we don't know exactly and no one give out the exact ranges. Exact specs especially ranges are confidential data. Also, do we exactly follow MTCR in China-Pak relations and have our version limited to 300KM ? Even if we believe it is, its enough and quite same as SMASH and not a big difference.

 

[Corax]

there are and were two programs.

an ashbm and a cruiser, it was two distinct programs

Some people seem to think P282 and SMASH are the same thing. I think P282 will be a license built Chinese supersonic AShM for the smaller vessels.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...sh-ship-launched-anti-ship-ballistic-missile/

 

[Ak01]

I think P282 will be a license built Chinese supersonic AShM for the smaller vessels.

yes, probably.

they will want to do what they did with zarb to skirt around mtcr, paint it green and call it pakistani.

im guessing for this, it will likely be the YJ-18 maybe.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

Some people seem to think P282 and SMASH are the same thing. I think P282 will be a license built Chinese supersonic AShM for the smaller vessels.

https://www.navalnews.com/naval-new...sh-ship-launched-anti-ship-ballistic-missile/

I am one of those people. We all had heard about the project P-282 and that its being developed, we had never heard about the name SMASH. Finally, we witnessed all these tests where Navy announced a new weapon "SMASH". So people have assumed that P-282 was just an internal project name for SMASH.

But still can't be said with full certainty unless a top ranking official confirms it. We could be wrong (as many believe) and P-282 could be a different missile.

 

[Ak01]

But still can't be said with full certainty unless a top ranking official confirms it. We could be wrong (as many believe) and P-282 could be a different missile.

i mean... cns specifically labelled smash and p282 as one being a cruise missile and one being an ashbm

 

[Ak01]

Any update on the cruise missile program?

probably realised they cant do it alone

i think they will build yj18s in pakistan imo.

theyll need them in big numbers for hangor, it only makes sense

 

[Pak-Warrior]

i mean... cns specifically labelled smash and p282 as one being a cruise missile and one being an ashbm

I am sure CNS mentioned P-282 as Antiship ballistic missile.

"..... ship-based long-range Anti-Ship and Land-Attack P-282 ballistic missile is under development.”

-CNS Admiral Zafar Mehmood Abbasi

 

[Princeps]

yes, probably.

they will want to do what they did with zarb to skirt around mtcr, paint it green and call it pakistani.

im guessing for this, it will likely be the YJ-18 maybe.

Couldn't we develop something like YJ-18 ourselves based on Fatah-4/harbah? I am surprised we didn't pursue this sooner, such a missile could be used for land-attack, coastal batteries and arming surface combatants. You essentially get all the benefits of a supersonic cruise missile without needing ramjets.

 

[kimjongun]

Couldn't we develop something like YJ-18 ourselves based on Fatah-4/harbah? I am surprised we didn't pursue this sooner, such a missile could be used for land-attack, coastal batteries and arming surface combatants. You essentially get all the benefits of a supersonic cruise missile without needing ramjets.

yj18 is similar to kalibr..it goes supersonic in its terminal/close to target phase(mach 2.5-3) it is said that it jettisons its engine and ignites a rocket motor 25 km from the target....
so a dual-speed flight profile....

i dont think with our current capabilities in cruise missiles can build something like it.....
however if we will be building it under license then its would be a great advancment...although it requires a vls cell to launch from....so cm302 would be better cuz it uses slanted launchers and chinese ships have them in double digits on their ships unlike ours..

What we can do is to try to get the tot for either the yj12 or yj18 like we did with zarb...
or just increase the accuracy and range of BABUR GLCM...a penetrating warhead version would be very profitable if we try to strike the INs coastal brahmos batteries in the Rajasthan or the home port of INS vikrant in karwar,karnataka...or just strike IN assests like storage depos of brahmos and refueling ships....

 

[Princeps]

yj18 is similar to kalibr..it goes supersonic in its terminal/close to target phase(mach 2.5-3) it is said that it jettisons its engine and ignites a rocket motor 25 km from the target....
so a dual-speed flight profile....
View attachment 162341
i dont think with our current capabilities in cruise missiles can build something like it.....
however if we will be building it under license then its would be a great advancment...although it requires a vls cell to launch from....so cm302 would be better cuz it uses slanted launchers and chinese ships have them in double digits on their ships unlike ours..
..

We have turbofan cruise missiles and we have rockets, so the only part left is the jettisoning mechanism and packing it all into a compact missile. I don't see why it couldn't be doable. Getting Yj-18 ToT would make it that much easier.