PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[PakShaheen_79]

If there was no damage to India or no deterrence shown on 10th, the conflict would have continued.
If there was no S-400 strike, there was no need for a cease fire and Brahmos hits should have continued.
If Pakistan is not a military peer competitor to India, they should have destroyed a weaker adversary comprehensively. A damaged aircraft and few martyrs for price of 8 aircraft and 2 S-400 batteries doesn't really proves their delusional claims.

Complete decimation is not possible for now because of our strategic weapons not conventional deterrence. India knows this, US knows this, Israel knows this. Debate is can PAF hit IAF bases all over India if required, short answer is with current inventory it can't! Due to these limitations, if pressure mounts, we will hit our nuclear threshold early in case losses on our side continued. PAF's air superiority on 7th is well-proven fact and there is no doubt about it. But can PL-15 or AIM-120C5s be a replacement of a SOW, this is the debate.

 

[AeronautIR]

A equally perplexing aspect of this claim that PAF has all the imagery and didn't release it is that why no any other agency was able to pick any losses on Indian side with satellite. There are number of commerical websites. Even in 2019, failed Indian strike on Balakot was first exposed by satellite images not by PAF but a European agency. There was not a single satellite image this time around backing claims of PAF strikes. Why?

Other thread please.

 

[Oscar]

If you keep referring to Indian sources, you may also believe that after any major conflicts with Pakistan there's a sudden rise in IAF personnel getting killed on Road accidents, and radar Air defense personnel falling off passenger trains.

Point is - Who is Damien? Is his call to fame only analyzing Ukranian war images and now suddenly he is the "independent" observer?
Considering Tom Cooper was willing to sell out for a few grand you think this guy could not?

EITHER WAY < LETS MOVE THIS TO THE OTHER THREAD.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

i mean, what it does show is nowhere is safe, and that in the first few days of a war, the IAF can render the PAF ineffective on the ground, if we dont fly, we dont kill...

Pakistan has cruise missiles too, brother.
Indians have yet to taste them apart from the supersonic CM-400AKG their S-400 didn't see coming.

 

[Ak01]

Pakistan has cruise missiles too, brother.
Indians have yet to taste them apart from the supersonic CM-400AKG their S-400 didn't see coming.

Yes…question is how many. I’m willing to bet everything the answer is not a lot however

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Yes…question is how many. I’m willing to bet everything the answer is not a lot however

I don't bet but I have strong hope that Pakistan maintains a sizeable arsenal for it's needs.

India would not have asked for a ceasefire if the US did not warn them of a very heavy response that Pakistan was on the brink of unleashing.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

We shouldn't count PFX until we know exactly what it is. According to the picture PAC hos shown, they intend to first localize the JF-17 as much as possible and then go for a new design based on that, this combined with PAC lack experience and money, easily puts the projet 20+ years away. This raises another question, if PAC is going the JF-17 route, how will they pay for the J-10's and how many units of J-10 they are planning to get? If the plan is for 100 J-10's, it may have to be drastically reduced.

Valid point...agreed. However, I for one only see PAF trying to ensure all parts and components of JFT are made in Pakistan and a new engine is introduced with minimal redesign of engine bay (If possible). They would want some Turkish input and systems in the "Reconfigured" JFT with enhanced ground attack capability.

As you rightly pointed out, a completely new design and with our capabilities currently in place, will take atleast 20 years to bear fruit if we have the finances available.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Mohid Afzal]

Valid point...agreed. However, I for one only see PAF trying to ensure all parts and components of JFT are made in Pakistan and a new engine is introduced with minimal redesign of engine bay (If possible). They would want some Turkish input and systems in the "Reconfigured" JFT with enhanced ground attack capability.

As you rightly pointed out, a completely new design and with our capabilities currently in place, will take atleast 20 years to bear fruit if we have the finances available.

Respectfully speaking, I think the localization of the JF-17 should have started either from B2 days or ae least when the B3 was announced.
The main thing that I want to see is what PAF does for future. After operation Sindoor, it is very well clear that PAF has realised the need for a jet that could travel long distances and hit targets deep inside enemy territory, something the JF-17 can't do since it's a light fighter. While we can rely on the Fatah-2 and RAAD ALCM's, in war, the situation changes in a matter of seconds and their is a good chance that we may not be able to use either systems to their full potential. Going for more J-10's would mean either less or no more B3's where as more B3's would allow us to replace the remaining Mirage and F-7PG fleet, the problem of short legs would remain and if the new design is being pursued, it will drain even more resources.

 

[kimjongun]

Point is - Who is Damien? Is his call to fame only analyzing Ukranian war images and now suddenly he is the "independent" observer?
Considering Tom Cooper was willing to sell out for a few grand you think this guy could not?

EITHER WAY < LETS MOVE THIS TO THE OTHER THREAD.

I have always been intrigued by damien symond and his biasness towards the indian side...Like are really a independent person or just a indian team masking as a foreigner...

 

[AeronautIR]

I would be very surprised if the PAF has 150 Mirages left that are operational at all.

Yup... Just 3 squadrons left in service.

 

[HRK]

But we literally cannot do this.

One H4 requires 2 mirage's.

So at best, we can launch what, 15, 20 at a push?

Infact, going into India to launch H4s with large mirage packages probably would have been a death wish. Best suited to dropping bombs on advancing indian formations

Not necessarily H-2 or H-4 we had the option of REK but This time it seems after achieving aerial superiority our focus was not on A2G operations.

There were so many legitimate targets with in our reach specially the TEL of bhramous missiles in Rajasthan and Gujrat states of India.

As per reports we were tracking them but decided to remain defensive specifically in case of Bholari air base

 

[Desprado123]

Yup... Just 3 squadrons left in service.

If true than it means we have around 300s of fighter jets. PAF is also not replacing old jets with jf 17 than how we suppose to compete with IAF in terms of quantity and back up?

 

[puttputt]

Valid point...agreed. However, I for one only see PAF trying to ensure all parts and components of JFT are made in Pakistan and a new engine is introduced with minimal redesign of engine bay (If possible). They would want some Turkish input and systems in the "Reconfigured" JFT with enhanced ground attack capability.

As you rightly pointed out, a completely new design and with our capabilities currently in place, will take atleast 20 years to bear fruit if we have the finances available.

The only way this will happen is if there's an alloys and composites production base within Pakistan that can output at scale (as we'll need subassemblies for fighters, drones, and munitions).

However, we've yet to see any large-scale facility for this in the works, be it private or state-owned. The latter are still stuck in the mindset that they're OK with manufacturing once they have the key inputs, but don't understand that importing those inputs is the issue at this stage.

 

[东风夜放花千树]

Absolutely no idea but that was not the point. I was talking about the gaps in roles. How will IAF cover the gap in aerial engagements?

India's desire to achieve air superiority is difficult to realize; this is no longer an issue that money can solve.

No matter what weapons India procures, Pakistan can obtain more advanced weapons than India.

In terms of electronic warfare, India is far behind Pakistan. Pakistan can paralyze India's command systems and intercept communications.

The only way for India to gain an advantage is to wage an all-out war, using its human and economic advantages to wear down Pakistan.

If India loses its rationality and launches an all-out war, many countries will support Pakistan, even sending troops to participate. The countries surrounding India, long oppressed by India, will not support India. Without air superiority, India would lose many lives. I do not believe Indian soldiers have that kind of courage.