PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

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Unfortunately, the F-16 is not related to this system. Neither China nor the United States would allow something like this to happen.

The PAF's F-16s can only operate independently, outside of this system.

Both the JF17, J10CE and now F16s will all operate within this system. PAFs core AEW&C are Erieyes, how do you think they work within this system ? PAF uses its own core system, not Chinese or American, and it is based around a Link-17, off which the Chinese system like J10CE is integrated, where JF17C will operate natively with Link-17, as now will be the case for the F16s via a Link-16 to 17 conversion bridge.
 
Unfortunately, the F-16 is not related to this system. Neither China nor the United States would allow something like this to happen.

The PAF's F-16s can only operate independently, outside of this system.
PAF can use F-16 as a bomb truck. At least it's more suitable for doing this than J-10C&JF-17b3.
 
What is the minimum number of squadron that PAF will maintain or will keep maintaining it? Another issue is number of pilots, if we retired all 3rd gen Aircrafts, then we will have trouble maintaining a good pilot per aircraft ratio?
How come? We need around 200 pilots for about 130 Mirages and F-7 PGs.
This number will reduce with 2 J-35 squadrons and another J-10C sqn.
The total number of squadrons will be around 16 in my opinion, all hi-tech and BVR capable.
 
Both the JF17, J10CE and now F16s will all operate within this system. PAFs core AEW&C are Erieyes, how do you think they work within this system ? PAF uses its own core system, not Chinese or American, and it is based around a Link-17, off which the Chinese system like J10CE is integrated, where JF17C will operate natively with Link-17, as now will be the case for the F16s via a Link-16 to 17 conversion bridge.
My English is not very good, so I cannot accurately describe the technical terms. Furthermore, different countries have inconsistent descriptions of some technical terms.

Let me give you an example to illustrate:

Link-17 is equivalent to the Internet/WAN communication protocol. In the field of closer communication, there is also a communication protocol similar to LAN. This is the key communication protocol for tactical coordination.
 
I cannot comment on the Mirages.

However, I can confirm that the F-7PG, after appropriate modifications, can be integrated into this modern air combat system.

China has long publicly displayed UAV conversion kits for older fighter jets at air shows. After modification, these older aircraft can be integrated into modern air combat systems. They can serve as conventional UAVs or as suicide drones.
Too costly and not feasible. We are working on drones in collaboration with Turkiye and China to mass produce all types.
F-7PGs will continue to train new pilots in OCU and then retire, hopefully after LIFT induction like L-15.
 
We don't have stand-off weapons for F-16s and bombing missions in contested airspace is quite risky.
What if the IAF does not engage in air combat with the PAF but instead blocks the sky with S-400 and strikes the airport with BrahMos? The PAF would need some aircraft to perform dangerous missions.
 
Unfortunately, the F-16 is not related to this system. Neither China nor the United States would allow something like this to happen.

The PAF's F-16s can only operate independently, outside of this system.
You may have misunderstood me so I think this needs a bit of technical unpacking, because it’s not an all-or-nothing issue.

It’s true that US and China-origin systems will not be allowed to share raw sensor data, source code, or deep fusion layers. No one is arguing that an F-16 will be natively integrated into the same internal architecture as a J-10C. That level of integration is neither permitted nor necessary.

However, saying the F-16s “operate independently” overstates the separation.

Modern NC warfare works through functional interoperability, not full system fusion. The key point is this:

An F-16 operating on Link-16 does not need access to Chinese mission computers.
It only needs sanitised track-level data, engagement cues, or tasking, which can be passed through national gateways, AEW&C, or command nodes that sit above platform-specific networks.

This is where an important detail matters: Pakistan operates Saab Erieye AEW&C, and Erieye natively supports Link-16. That means interoperability does not have to happen jet-to-jet. It happens at the C2 and battlespace-management layer, where tracks from different networks (Link-16, Link-17, ground sensors) are correlated and tasks are issued without sharing sensitive internals.

From a doctrinal standpoint, that is entirely sufficient. The F-16 can function as:

1. a remote shooter,
2. a passive participant, or
3. a supplementary node

without violating US or Chinese restrictions. It doesn’t need to “see” what a J-10 sees, it only needs to know where and when to act.

This is why the Indian analysts are concerned about Link-16 even without AIM-120D or F-16V. The upgrade doesn’t change allegiance, it increases network density and redundancy inside Pakistan’s battlespace model. That deepens engagement geometry and complicates adversary planning, even if the networks remain technically distinct.

So yes, you’re right that there is no single monolithic system where everything is fused together. But that’s not how modern air combat systems are designed anyway. Separation at the platform level does not prevent coherence at the doctrinal and operational level.

That’s the distinction that matters.
 
What if the IAF does not engage in air combat with the PAF but instead blocks the sky with S-400 and strikes the airport with BrahMos? The PAF would need some aircraft to perform dangerous missions.
We took out S-400 through JF-17s firing CM-400AKG. Point was that F-16s can't be used in A2G role unless we get new weapons from USA.
So we use JF-17 in strike role now.
 
We took out S-400 through JF-17s firing CM-400AKG. Point was that F-16s can't be used in A2G role unless we get new weapons from USA.
So we use JF-17 in strike role now.
No AGM-158 series in this upgrade package provided by the US? That's too bad, the F-16 has strong A2G capabilities. JF-17b3 is actually not suitable for that.
 
What if the IAF does not engage in air combat with the PAF but instead blocks the sky with S-400 and strikes the airport with BrahMos? The PAF would need some aircraft to perform dangerous missions.
That’s a fair question, but it assumes a much cleaner separation between “air combat” and “missile warfare” than actually exists.

First, systems don’t operate in isolation, people operate them. The effectiveness of something like S-400 depends heavily on the training, experience, and situational awareness of its crew, as well as how well that crew is integrated into the wider C2 network. Long-range SAMs are powerful, but they are also complex, information-hungry systems. Their performance is inseparable from the quality of cueing, decision-making, and coordination under pressure. I doubt the Indians are prepared to this level.

Second, S-400 does not “block airspace” in a vacuum. Its effectiveness depends on:

1. cueing quality,
2. sensor survivability,
3. EM conditions,

and how well operators maintain situational awareness in a contested environment.

In a peer-level fight, long-range SAMs become part of the air battle, not a substitute for it. They require protection, deconfliction, and constant management, and they generate emissions that can be detected, characterised, and responded to over time.

Third, stand-off missile strikes (e.g., BrahMos) reduce pilot exposure, but they do not remove risk, they shift it. Missiles follow predictable paths, have finite inventories, and depend on accurate, timely targeting. Longer time-of-flight actually expands the defender’s decision window, especially when operators are alert and well-integrated with sensors and command nodes.

Fourth, even in a missile-centric scenario, aircraft are still required, just in different roles:

1. airspace surveillance,
2. defensive counter-air,
3. AEW&C support,
4. battle damage assessment,
5. and deterrence patrols.

Missiles don’t adapt mid-campaign; trained crews in aircraft and C2 nodes do.

Finally, this returns to the system-level point. Pakistan’s objective is not to “win dogfights,” but to maintain a contested battlespace. As long as that contestation exists, shaped by systems and the people operating them, no single tool, whether S-400 or BrahMos, can impose unilateral control without cost.

So yes, any conflict would involve dangerous missions. But the idea that air combat can simply be bypassed through SAMs and stand-off missiles overlooks both the human dimension of warfare and the reality of modern, peer-level air operations.

Air combat doesn’t disappear; it just changes form.
 
While the point about amount of load a single PAF sortie can carry is valid but I suppose from what we already have , from lethality point of view, should be sufficient, like this

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REK may work for targets located near boder, but for strikes that can produce some real strategic impact (like Hitting Ambala, Gowaliar, Delhi, Jodhpur etc.) PAF need both lethality and range. Now, in high intensity conflict, there will be times when enemy AD nodes will be overwhlemed/compromised for certain time period before getting reparied/replaced (as many radars and SAMs are mobile now a days) so, PAF will have to exploit that window of opportunity. In absense of heavy strike fighters like J-16 or F-15s PAF will have to send in a larger package, or multiple missions to decimate a single airbase or C2 center etc. That's the whole point. There is a reason why Boeing is rolling out F-15EX and Russians are churning our SU-35s despite have more advaanced fighters. Same goes for China which is still pursuing H-20 as a strategic progrlam. B-21 Raider is yet another story. We are up against an enemy that has massive land mass.
 
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