Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Oscar]

Yes but i really hope all PAF bases will have multi tier dependable Anti Air attack defense.

For those near the border such as Sargodha, anti drone swarm tactics also needed.

Further, PAF must establish at least two independent large air bases in depths of balochistan........because targeting them with ALCMs would be next to impossible for IAF...and it will provide a nice sanctuary for PAF to continue their operations. Both bases will need to be equipped for multi platform operations. Your jets would need to carry drop tanks to make westward towards hot theater.....but for Air to Air combat they can jettison these before enter the combat zone over Punjab/Sindh.

I don't know why they chose Bholari where it is.......you already have Masroor and Jacobabad in Sindh......should have established the infrastructure 200-300 km west in balochistan. This needs serious thought.

In this regard, Navy is absolutely doing brilliantly by moving its infrastructure westwards for both submarines and surface assets.

You will realize why Bholari is where it is after you realize what has been built around Bholari and Sindh.
You will realize why you need another layer between Masroor and a adjacent layer next to Shahbaz after you see where best Indian armor and amphibious groups can be employed.

 

[aurelianpilled]

the halaat of India's MiG-29 fleet, acquired in mid 1980s btw

 

[AeronautIR]

They've proven that they can hit our runways. All the way to Sargodha. A real conflict will have higher number of incoming projectiles. What good is an airbase if you can't takeoff from it?

PAF must improve air defence and rapid runway repairs.

I mean no offense and please don't get angry like some other people have.
This question has been asked and answered literally 20 times.
They don't have the capability to take out all the runways. And we are improving our layered IADS to improve interception rate.

 

[AeronautIR]

That is actually another issue regarding PR and disclosure of info.

As an e.g. I also know of two individuals who were in the air during SR from 29sq - and so when asked regd Su-30 they made a statement which aligns with ELINT+HUMINT confirming it went down. Did it go down immediately or did it crash while in the vicinity of Avantipur are two things I have heard but the latter is from an individual not involved in SR but at AHQ. Ab kiski baat sunein? There too there is no picture.

Going further back some 14 years ago I am chatting with a former CPD JF-17 in a casual setting and I mention a low RCS mirage that was done. His eyes went up and asked me "who told you that?!".
Now I didnt tell him that I was told than as a 13 year old from a then Head of Kamra.

Can I prove it to you? No
Ab agar aik AVM ko terah saal ke bachey ki knowledge facinate ki, unhun ne lambi guftugu ki aur bohat kuch bataya tu ab kiski "ghalati" ya kaun si baat ko sachai ka tarazu mein tola jaye??

I agree completely. I am a retired Sqn Ldr so I don't understand the minds of great people who make these decisions.
I knew exactly which aircraft were used but was told that you are too junior to comprehend the reasons why DG ISPR claimed "no F-16s were used" so here I am.
That is why I try to avoid political or such policy issues and try to focus on actual military capabilities.
Maybe I actually don't understand some grand strategic issues but sometimes this confidentiality requirement seems quite unnecessary.

 

[side-winder]

They could hit your runways well before this -
But for launch points even at maximum range of Scalp it is around 20-25 minutes or so while your warning point based on rcs of scalp is probably no more than 8 minutes or so.

Brahmos on the other hand can be at location within 15 minutes from a ground launch point @side-winder. But because of RCS and general flight profile is an easier detection if difficult target solution.

It actually took Brahmos less than 10 mins. Yes, Scalp is a bitch to find and track - you would need help of short range low level radars. while BraHmos already shows up nice and easy.

 

[AeronautIR]

Ok, so the basic argument is about narrative war and not actual damage.
Now, I have a question... kindly tell me that if Indians have produced a single proof to support their claims of shooting PAF aircraft?
The high-res imagery you mentioned was for ground targets only, right?

Beware of who you are debating with….specifically ‘neutrals’ hiding behind VPN’s and sneak pushing the Indian narrative on PDF. Ie, PAF won in the air but India won on the ground, so ‘all square’. Pakistani tendency to self flagellate even when they achieve success beyond anyone’s wildest dreams gives them fertile grounds to push their cope.
[/QUOTE]
Ah, I was thinking on these lines but as I am new here, I thought Moderators weed out such issues...
Even with hits on PAF bases, India had no advantage in this conflict and that is why their government was so keen on cease fire.
Pakistan expanded the escalation horizontally only and if we decide to go vertical like India, there are many weapons in our arsenal that are not used yet.

 

[side-winder]

Ah, I was thinking on these lines but as I am new here, I thought Moderators weed out such issues...
Even with hits on PAF bases, India had no advantage in this conflict and that is why their government was so keen on cease fire.
Pakistan expanded the escalation horizontally only and if we decide to go vertical like India, there are many weapons in our arsenal that are not used yet.

We don't tend to suppress the valid criticism - as i said earlier, we do appreciate the rational thinking. Now if these guys haven't been shown the evidence for our ground strikes - they have all the right to ask questions - their doubts may not necessarily need to be facts.

Unlike - you visit the indian forums - the moment you talk about IAF's humiliation on 7th. They won't let you talk about it - Their mods and senior members immediately spin the narrative "we restrained ourselves with rules of engagement on 7th and didn't expect any PAF response since we were engaging civilian targets" -- and then the next line goes - "on 10th IAF came out all guns blazing and PAF was grounded out of fear and got their assets in hangars and C2 nodes and nuclear facilities and whatever more fantasy they can add, destroyed."

Now i don't know where do the S400 kills fit in the narrative. On 7th you were chained due to ROEs limitations to not engage PAF and on 10th you already grounded the PAF. lol

 

[Ibbi32]

I agree completely. I am a retired Sqn Ldr so I don't understand the minds of great people who make these decisions.
I knew exactly which aircraft were used but was told that you are too junior to comprehend the reasons why DG ISPR claimed "no F-16s were used" so here I am.
That is why I try to avoid political or such policy issues and try to focus on actual military capabilities.
Maybe I actually don't understand some grand strategic issues but sometimes this confidentiality requirement seems quite unnecessary.

Wasnt the reason dgispr claimed no f-16 used because they didn’t want to face possible us sanctions for conducting offensive sorties with the f-16s. At the time us Pakistan relations were very strained so i get why we didnt want to publicly acknowledge use of f-16s due to user agreement

 

[AeronautIR]

We don't tend to suppress the valid criticism - as i said earlier, we do appreciate the rational thinking. Now if these guys haven't been shown the evidence for our ground strikes - they have all the right to ask questions - their doubts may not necessarily need to be facts.

Unlike - you visit the indian forums - the moment you talk about IAF's humiliation on 7th. They won't let you talk about it - Their mods and senior members immediately spin the narrative "we restrained ourselves with rules of engagement on 7th and didn't expect any PAF response since we were engaging civilian targets" -- and then the next line goes - "on 10th IAF came out all guns blazing and PAF was grounded out of fear"

That is fair.

 

[AeronautIR]

Wasnt the reason dgispr claimed no f-16 used because they didn’t want to face possible us sanctions for conducting offensive sorties with the f-16s. At the time us Pakistan relations were very strained so i get why we didnt want to publicly acknowledge use of f-16s due to user agreement

There is no such official user agreement signed. We can use F-16s against India and as I said before, I don't have the seniority to understand the unofficial intricacies of state craft.

 

[Ibbi32]

We don't tend to suppress the valid criticism - as i said earlier, we do appreciate the rational thinking. Now if these guys haven't been shown the evidence for our ground strikes - they have all the right to ask questions - their doubts may not necessarily need to be facts.

Unlike - you visit the indian forums - the moment you talk about IAF's humiliation on 7th. They won't let you talk about it - Their mods and senior members immediately spin the narrative "we restrained ourselves with rules of engagement on 7th and didn't expect any PAF response since we were engaging civilian targets" -- and then the next line goes - "on 10th IAF came out all guns blazing and PAF was grounded out of fear"

I wonder what those idiots thought of the alan warnes article “for two days not a single iaf aircraft took off in the western FIR”

 

[AeronautIR]

I wonder what those idiots thought of the alan warnes article “for two days not a single iaf aircraft took off in the western FIR”

Oh, that's easy... Alan Warnes is on payroll of PAF, so that article is not authentic or trustworthy.
Extreme cope.

 

[Ibbi32]

Oh, that's easy... Alan Warnes in on payroll of PAF, so that article is not authentic or trustworthy.
Extreme cope.

Ya to hum kabi gareeb qom hai jin ke paas khanay ke liye kuch nahi ya toh poori dunya Pakistani paiso pe narrative chalati hai.

Agar itna hi paisa hai mijhe bhi do mai kab se Pakistani narrative chala raha ho

 

[mythbuster]

Wasnt the reason dgispr claimed no f-16 used because they didn’t want to face possible us sanctions for conducting offensive sorties with the f-16s. At the time us Pakistan relations were very strained so i get why we didnt want to publicly acknowledge use of f-16s due to user agreement

None of what you wrote is relevant .....f 16 were not used cause they lacked the offensive punch needed at this particular scenario...they were in the air though.

 

[side-winder]

I wonder what those idiots thought of the alan warnes article “for two days not a single iaf aircraft took off in the western FIR”

Alan warnes is considered a PAF propaganda mouthpiece but since this fact was also acknowledged by their CDS saahb. So now the argument basically is "we were carrying out DEAD, we took out PAF radars. Once they were blind. We went in for strikes and they didn't even know what was happening".