PAF Conducts Successful Test Launch of Taimoor ALCM

[Goenitz]

Hehe that's me lol

the Twitter account, pilot or the tech guy?

 

[maverick]

Damn! what a beauty

 

[Asif]

Congratulations to all on this test. Alhamdullilah.
For now, we have a plethora of A2G, A2S and G2G missiles. The need of the hour is to improve their precision strike. Taimour missed the target (circle) by easily +/- 5M. In real war scenario, this may limit the damage to a hardened structure, a HVT or a command center. "Some" of the Fatah fired during the conflict missed the target due to same deficiency. we had a similar discussion in the thread for Indian conflict and hopefully this loop hole wud be plugged soon.
Similarly, where we lack alot is A2A missiles and developments on FAAZ and similar missiles are much awaited. inshallah soon.

 

[hasssanali8998]

the Twitter account, pilot or the tech guy?

the twitter account , check it out makes good illustration

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• Zephyrus
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Military Photos & Multimedia

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[HRK]

This?

View attachment 6539

Here it is I found it ....

Post in thread 'IDEAS-2024 (HRK)'

Nov 25, 2024

• HRK

• 

 

[Goenitz]

Bro I am not that Bilal. His handle here is Quwa.

I knew that Bilal was different. Actually, I mistook Arsalan for another Bilal (you).

 

[Bilal]

Here it is I found it ....

Post in thread 'IDEAS-2024 (HRK)'

Nov 25, 2024

• HRK

• 

Looks same/similar but just 4 km? Would it give enough reaction time?

Also I think they got pitch and horizontal mixed up looking at the window having more space downwards it’s probably 20,-40 degree pitch.

 

[JamD]

Ok so I will separate my thoughts in separate posts for clarity.

Taimoor is clearly a development of the Ra'ad 2. However, we should not think this is a simple progression. Ra'ad 2 is a nuclear delivery system so it a) has no need to be pinpoint accurate, and b) needs as much space as possible for its payload. This tells us that Taimoor very likely has a smaller space for its warhead. The weight of the seeker isn't huge (4 kg from above specs) but the space that the seeker takes up is significant. Regardless, for the kinds of mission Taimoor is meant for, this loss in boom matters naught.

Regarding what it takes to "add a seeker":
Ra'ad 2 has a guidance system based on INS (maybe TERCOM/DSMAC etc) and the entire flight software is designed for it. Now you add a seeker. You need to add some software and memory to be able to recognize targets. You need a system to feed it target picture before it is launched. Secondly, you need to add an end-game guidance based on the seeker inputs. This is an entirely new phase of flight, and what lets it hit targets so accurately. You need lots of simulation and testing to get this right. 4 km is more than enough range for this seeker. It only needs to track the target in the endgame. It is essentially a Ra'ad2 the rest of the way. The legacy guidance and navigation gets you in the vicinity of the target, and the new seeker+end-game guidance gets you to the target.

 

[Bilal]

4 km is more than enough range for this seeker. It only needs to track the target in the endgame

Yes, it will have around 15 seconds time to identify the target already in front of it.

Can we calculate area in view at 4 km distance with +/-20 azimuth and +20?-40 pitch?

Edit: AI calculation, 2.22 sq km.

 

[hasssanali8998]

Ok so I will separate my thoughts in separate posts for clarity.

Taimoor is clearly a development of the Ra'ad 2. However, we should not think this is a simple progression. Ra'ad 2 is a nuclear delivery system so it a) has no need to be pinpoint accurate, and b) needs as much space as possible for its payload. This tells us that Taimoor very likely has a smaller space for its warhead. The weight of the seeker isn't huge (4 kg from above specs) but the space that the seeker takes up is significant. Regardless, for the kinds of mission Taimoor is meant for, this loss in boom matters naught.

Regarding what it takes to "add a seeker":
Ra'ad 2 has a guidance system based on INS (maybe TERCOM/DSMAC etc) and the entire flight software is designed for it. Now you add a seeker. You need to add some software and memory to be able to recognize targets. You need a system to feed it target picture before it is launched. Secondly, you need to add an end-game guidance based on the seeker inputs. This is an entirely new phase of flight, and what lets it hit targets so accurately. You need lots of simulation and testing to get this right. 4 km is more than enough range for this seeker. It only needs to track the target in the endgame. It is essentially a Ra'ad2 the rest of the way. The legacy guidance and navigation gets you in the vicinity of the target, and the new seeker+end-game guidance gets you to the target.

how complicated would it be to add flares to it like kh01 ?

 

[Jango007]

Sorry I am not weapons expert but seeing these slow/ bulky cruise missiles getting easily shot down in Ukraine war theatre …. Should we not instead be focusing on hypersonic systems like Indians are ?

 

[Night Memory]

What does the name mean ( for those of us who are less cultured ! ).

Founder of the Mughals aka the house of Taimoor. Masters of South Asia and Afghandus before British came. You will see afghandus trying to descreate his name in this thread.

 

[Princeps]

Ok so I will separate my thoughts in separate posts for clarity.

Taimoor is clearly a development of the Ra'ad 2. However, we should not think this is a simple progression. Ra'ad 2 is a nuclear delivery system so it a) has no need to be pinpoint accurate, and b) needs as much space as possible for its payload. This tells us that Taimoor very likely has a smaller space for its warhead. The weight of the seeker isn't huge (4 kg from above specs) but the space that the seeker takes up is significant. Regardless, for the kinds of mission Taimoor is meant for, this loss in boom matters naught.

Regarding what it takes to "add a seeker":
Ra'ad 2 has a guidance system based on INS (maybe TERCOM/DSMAC etc) and the entire flight software is designed for it. Now you add a seeker. You need to add some software and memory to be able to recognize targets. You need a system to feed it target picture before it is launched. Secondly, you need to add an end-game guidance based on the seeker inputs. This is an entirely new phase of flight, and what lets it hit targets so accurately. You need lots of simulation and testing to get this right. 4 km is more than enough range for this seeker. It only needs to track the target in the endgame. It is essentially a Ra'ad2 the rest of the way. The legacy guidance and navigation gets you in the vicinity of the target, and the new seeker+end-game guidance gets you to the target.

Wait so no GPS guidance?

 

[Bilal]

Wait so no GPS guidance?

It might be augmented.

 

[JamD]

On the topic of the launch aircraft:

I had conjectured many years ago that the original Ra'ad could not be carried by the JF-17 for clearance reasons based on careful pixel counting:

However, on the very thread I had posted a plaque and we had later seen a picture that showed that Ra'ad 1 can be carried by the JF-17 on the wing:

So my pixel counting was slightly off (not shocking).

Why is Mirage used by all these tests? Many reasons IMHO:
1. AWC knows the mirage inside out - it understands it structure in a way that it does not understand the JF-17.
2. Mirage is analouge so there isn't any flight-control system that needs to know about payload carriage/release. The pilot just accounts for the big hunk of payload drop manually.
3. Mirage has a lot of internal space for all kinds of instrumentation to be mounted inside. Instrumentation that you likely need for these things.
4. For a system like Ra'ad/Taimoor, the carrier A/C doesn't do any targeting. The targeting info is fed on the ground, maybe there is an ability to update it but I'm not sure that there is. So it is mostly about carriage.
5. However, there is something called Transfer Alignment. This is where the much superior INS of the launch A/C initializes the INS of the launched system to give it the best initial condition for its INS. This requires communication between Ra'ad/Taimoor and the launch aircraft. Maybe this hasn't been figured out for the JF-17 yet and I'm sure for Mirage it is super easy.

I think eventually the Ra'ad/Taimoor role needs to be transferred to the JF-17 and it will be. The Mirages are too old. But above explains why Mirage the choice A/C for AWC tests.