Venezuela - US Conflict: News, Updates

@F-22Raptor

Last warning. This thread is about the USA illegally taking a leader of a sovereign nation namely Venezuela to “look after” the common man. Stick to the topic or i will have to remove you again.
On topic - Venezuela will be liberated like Libya Iraq Syria and the rest. Oil will be given and sold to the USA companies and everything will be dandy.
 
sphinxpasha said:
The U.S. flew F-35s and Growlers right over Caracas. The Chinese supplied anti-stealth JY-27 ‘Wide Mat’ and 'integrated' network didn't just fail; it totally collapsed. The radars were 'blind' and the missile batteries never even got a target lock. The The EA-18G Growler electronic warfare paralysed Caracas’s Chinese-made command hubs.

Maduro was caught with his pants down, blindfolded and exported out of Venezuela!
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Wouldn't surprise me in the least we know as much about their systems as they do. And, found ways to defeat.

Will agree in principle there was inside assistance.
 
AZ_HighCountry said:
Wouldn't surprise me in the least we know as much about their systems as they do. And, found ways to defeat.

Will agree in principle there was inside assistance.
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Its almost guaranteed that the US got inside help from within the military command. It would explain why the operation was clean and smooth.
 
Hamartia Antidote said:
Wait ..I thought the long sold narrative was that we actually did keep Iraqi oil...that was the whole purpose of the war....an oil grab...right?

Are you now saying people on PDF have been lying to themselves all this time?

View attachment 170358




View attachment 170360

can't you see the oil grab by the US..it's as plain as day...what is wrong with you?
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Indeed... FRBNY

thecradle.co

Why does the US still control every penny of Iraqi oil revenues?

Washington has maintained control over Iraq’s oil revenues since its illegal 2003 invasion – a financial and economic subjugation that undermines Iraqi sovereignty and denies it access to its own national treasure.
thecradle.co thecradle.co
 
Ag1123 said:
The smartest thing the Chinese leaders did was allowing free markets and privatization, they understood the usefulness of economic calculation through profit and loss, instead of blindly producing goods not knowing if it was wasting resources or using them towards useful ends.

You said: “Communist countries distribute goods according to the needs of the people. Socialist countries distribute goods based on labor contributions. Capitalist countries allocate goods based on capital operations.”

My question to you is, how do you have distribution without production? All Socialist (Communist) argue from the standpoint that production is a given, but you need resources, factors of production (labor, tools, material) and proper allocation for production to succeed before you get to distribution, so how does a communist or socialist nation, which controls the means of production, do that without economic calculation through profit and loss?

Don’t worry I won’t press you further, as every leader and deep state across the world has understood it can’t and Capitalism (free markets) are necessary.

China would benefit even more if it got rid of Communism for good, as free market Capitalism is what allows a nation to stand on its feet, not starvation (what Communism offers).

Now you asked: “Firstly, you need to clarify what a communist country is, what a socialist country is, and what a capitalist country is.” A communist country is a stateless, moneyless, and classless society, something that exists in fantasy. A socialist country is a nation that control the means of production and socializes it. And A capitalist country is is the social system of private ownership of the means of production, in which economic calculation is possible through free market prices formed by voluntary exchange.

China is mostly Capitalism (free market) then it is Socialism, but not communism. If it was completely Socialism or even attempted communism, there would be mass starvations everywhere. Something the Chinese leaders have understood today. China is interventionism in short, but it is Capitalism which is sustaining, however full on Capitalism would make it more efficient, but that would be a threat to the government.

There will never be true communism, unless you freeze time and get rid of uncertainty. Every communist nation that ever was was the real deal, that was the result of it in practice.

Now I would argue that there has never been a true Capitalist nation, a true Captialist nation is far more likely to happen in practice than a true Communist nation which can happen only in fantasy.

Understood, that was my last reply. I need to challenge Socialist and communist everywhere, to ensure that destructive ideology never comes back, I know it’s less likely in the present era, but we need to continually remain and systematically destroy it.
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Why don't you let it go?

I can make anything work as long as I can coerce masses into sharing fruits of their labor with me... willingly! Or,
I can enslave them... I can steal with impunity as long as I share my spoils with my raiding parties.


The rest is just word salad to translate my wealth for your internal consumption.

I can be successful as long as my business is mine and whatever everyone else got as well.
There is no shortage of moralizers after the fact. You see them on this thread and the world over.
 
Musings said:
On topic - Venezuela will be liberated like Libya Iraq Syria and the rest.
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Well, for now, it all depends on what the Interim President's government decides to do in terms of active resistance or co-operation.
 
VCheng said:
The key here is what have Russia and China been promised in return, or expect in return, and whether it would drive them closer in the region or not.

As the article concludes, what comes next is not yet determined. I think how Venezuela's current setup does will be crucial in that determination. The fact that Machado is out shows how little say EU has in the entire chapter, given that she was being groomed for that role for a long time.
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Just my personal opinion for what it's worth: I don't think the Russians or the Chinese were promised anything with the removal of Maduro. If there had been a deal, maybe we'd see the U.S. partially withdrawing from the Pacific, and China pulling out of South America. But, as it stands, the U.S. is still actively deploying assets in the Pacific region.

We must also take into account not just oil; the Chinese have been sourcing agricultural goods after replacing American farmers with South American ones during Trump's trade war. This could alarm Chinese thinkers regarding food security.

What comes next is what I'm very curious about, both excited and cautious.
 
PakFactor said:
Just my personal opinion for what it's worth: I don't think the Russians or the Chinese were promised anything with the removal of Maduro. If there had been a deal, maybe we'd see the U.S. partially withdrawing from the Pacific, and China pulling out of South America.
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China and Russia both have spy satellites.

Unless we want to believe that the US military has superior craftyness to outsmart both of them it should be expected their intelligence services were not totally asleep at the wheel and could see what was unfolding long in advance.

The Chinese met with Maduro literally hours before the operation..and apparently they didn't hint to him he may want to play a little shell game with his sleeping arrangements.

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Maduro Met Chinese Envoy In His Last Official Meet Hours Before US Air Raided Caracus & Captured Him​


Edit: yes @MH.Yang your country had the chance to give him a big hint and chose not to. You can thumb down all you want but it doesn't change things as you are fully aware of China's capabilities.

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Video shows Chinese Satellite has tracked a seeming F22 fighter jet flying through sky​

 
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AZ_HighCountry said:
And I'm not the only moderator cleaning things up.
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Orcs do tend to disperse quicker when the whole moderator baradari gets summoned.

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