PAF F-16 | Discussions

The psycholgical hold this plane has had on the enemy since it was introduced still remains. Irrespective of us having J-10C and JF-17C, Indians always say "F-16" when making false claims of downed jets. They cannot get this plane out if their heads even after 40 years.

Ask a Pakistani about any Indian plane, he will not know what to say. As both Indians and Pakistanis to name a PAF jet, all of them will always answer F-16

The Indians gave an award to Abhi nonedone for fictionally “shooting” down an F-16 even though the entire load of his mig-21 craft sits nicely in a PAF museum. Imagine the folk hero status the first Indian pilot to shoot down a PAF F-16 will become.

Shooting down a PAF F-16 has the same stature for the Indians as an F-35 shoot down by the Iranians.
 
To be honest, for their population most will not care about variants or numbers, the very term "F-16" has been ingrained to send fear, envy and anger in them. No other weapon systems seems to have had this effect, unsure why but my guess is when it was introduced in the 80s Indian press (it was more sane and logical back then) reported it accurately as being the best combat aircraft in South Asia and tilting the air balance in Pak's favour. That really shook the Indians.

Of course after that was the war record against the Soviets/Afghans then much later 2019. The Pakistan public took the plane to it's heart (as we saw in truck painting, kids toys etc)

All in all, it obtained almost mythical status, hence why both in 2019 and 2025 when Indians were making false claims on downed PAF jets, Mirages, JF-17s, J-10Cs are never mentioned, for them it HAS to be F-16 in order to lift some sort of curse off them...
It's not like we have Pakistanis who have their own obsession with the F-16 because of their Don Quixote ideals against the US. Everything from kill switches to permissions in fights which they refuse to use their brains to research and have the honesty to admit they are delusional fools making up fear, while the aircraft for its entire record has been the most effective force pound for pound in the PAF from both an availability, effectiveness and psychological factor.
 
Pakistanis who have their own obsession with the F-16 because of their Don Quixote ideals against the US. Everything from kill switches to permissions in fights which they refuse to use their brains to research and have the honesty to admit they are delusional fools making up fear,
unfortunately our society thrives on hearsay
 
unfortunately our society thrives on hearsay
Hearsay is one problem - the society which has little to show for itself but claims to know everything and refuses to consider "What if I am wrong". Either way, the very thin veneer I keep talking about in Pakistani society who are the best, honest, competent or the combination of all will keep things going until they cant - the rest can go...to Pakistan as they have wanted it.

The F-16 isnt exactly getting hurt in its feelings - there is nearly 4000 of them out there with a combat effectiveness record unmatched by anything post WW2 of which the PAF is actually a VERY SMALL OPERATOR.
 
Oldie but really interesting read if you have not seen it before on why the F-16 for PAF and why it has a somewhat better availability rate especially the resource management system(which I heard separately was unique for the region - IAF had nothing comparable for a long time). Which BTW the USAF suggested the PAF do -- just in case typical Umrikan hatred comes in regarding "They sanctioned us!!"
@AeronautIR @Raider 21 @Yasser76
Do keep the date of publication in mind. 1984
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA147543.pdf

In early strategy discussions, US managers stressed that in-country supply resource management was the most critical variable for meeting the support demands of the initial PAF flying program(41:12). The Project Falcon Team agreed, stating that "modern complex, sophisticated weapons systems such as theF-16 demand a corresponding modern, responsive logistics system"
    • The Peace Gate program adopted an automated resource management system to track and manage spare parts, maintenance resources, and logistical support. This system was critical for minimizing delays and ensuring aircraft availability.
    • The system was initially developed by General Dynamics as part of the Contractor Initial Support (CIS) strategy, allowing for real-time monitoring of spare parts inventory and maintenance requirements.
  1. Spares and Repair Parts:
    • The program emphasized the lay-in of critical spare parts to Pakistan Air Force (PAF) facilities to reduce dependency on U.S. support. Long-lead items were identified early in the planning phase, and arrangements were made to accelerate their procurement.
    • A repair-and-return mechanism was implemented, where defective parts were sent to CONUS-based contractor facilities for repair and returned to Pakistan. This reduced the need for immediate replacement parts.
  2. Role of General Dynamics:
    • General Dynamics was granted significant authority to manage day-to-day resource allocation and spare parts distribution. This included overseeing the provisioning of Contractor Furnished Equipment (CFE) and ensuring parts were available for maintenance.
    • The Program Control Directorate (YPPI) at AFSC provided oversight, while General Dynamics handled the execution of resource management tasks.
  3. Infrastructure and Training:
    • The resource management system was closely tied to infrastructure development. For example, the Avionic Intermediate Shop (AIS) and Electrical Standards Set (ESS) were critical for maintenance, and their availability was tracked through the system.
    • Training programs (e.g., On-the-Job Training (OJT) and Field Training Detachments (FTD) were integrated with the resource system to ensure PAF personnel could effectively manage spare parts and maintenance operations.
  4. Challenges and Limitations:
    • The system faced challenges related to lead times for critical components and the limited industrial infrastructure in Pakistan(and is still an issue with other programs @JamD ) This required workarounds, such as CONUS-based repairs and collaborations with vendors.
    • Early in the program, cultural and logistical gaps between U.S. and Pakistani teams were addressed through frequent meetings and the use of the Management Action Team (MAT) to resolve issues.
Also a note:
The extent that the PAF remains dependent on the US for support of technical equipment is, presently the product of Pakistan's small base of technical infrastructure and the incompatibility of the PAF's base-level logistics concept and the support requirements of the complex F-16 weapons system. ILC managers report that in the PAF the hierarchy of enlisted 'ranks solely represents an increasing ability to perform more difficult maintenance tasks rather than a combination of technical ability and increasing level of supervisory responsibility.

The top enlisted ranks apparently do not have the same level of management authority as their counterparts in the USAF. Furthermore, junior maintenance officers think of themselves more as engineers and technical experts than supervisors and, in general, have no training or experience as managers. This leaves the PAF virtually without any middle-level management to organize and coordinate the wing's maintenance and support.

General Dynamics and ILC managers have recommended that the PAF give serious attention to developing a maintenance control operation including job-control, material control, and plans and scheduling functions" w

@AeronautIR , @Raider 21 , @side-winder - how much has changed???

On why the F-16 for the doubters.

"The Pakistani military, however, have supported the F-16 choice with a clear, logical analysis. With their 40 Korean War vintageF-86 aircraft literally falling apart (they were grounded when wing failure resulted in two pilot fatalities), the Pakistani military planners' search for a substitute concluded that the F-16 was the best replacement aircraft for the F-86. First, because of their financial constraints a single aircraft was required--one that could effectively perform both the ground support and air superiority roles for many years. Second logistics considerations also argued for a single aircraft that would simplify the installation and operation of the all-important logistics support system. Also, a relatively stable configuration and large numbers of identical aircraft within the U.S. Air Force was considered important for guaranteeing a secure source of spare parts . The F-16 met these criteria."

"Other aircraft such as the F-18, F-15, and F-5 figured in the analysis as well, but were ruled out for one reason or another. The F-18 design was believed to be too dynamic. The F-15 was considered too expensive (and probably not politically possible), and the F-5 was assessed as "old technology" and inadequate to support Pakistani needs over the long run. The F-5G or F-20 was still a prototype and ruled out as an unknown when the analysis was conducted. Finally, the F-16 fitted with the J-79 engine was evaluated. The Pakistani analysts believed that its performance was inferior to the F-16A in the air superiority role and, because of its "nonstandard" engine, logistically unique. Thus, the F-16/J-79 was rejected as inadequate to support the long-term needs of the PAF"

Pages 52 onwards are a great read for those interested in why certain nations pay more for certain aircraft. for e.g

"In addition, the accelerated delivery requirement has caused the PAF to pay premium prices on standard and nonstandard support equipment and spare parts"

Also - why India was always "freaked out" about the F-16s - one reason was
"AF peculiar modifications for PG I aircraft were defined in ECPs 0715R1 and 0794. ECP 0715R1 is a Class II change which included the modification of Block 15 fire control radar, replacing the radar computer, digital signal processor, and low power radio frequency with Block 5 radar components (43). The FMS configuration Block 15 radar and associated avionics were retrofitted in July 1983 under ECP0891 (42:5-3). PG II aircraft were built and delivered with FMS Block 15 radar configuration under ECP 0715RlCI(42:5-3). ECP 0794 incorporated the digital C-9492 cockpit controller for the ALQ-131 Electronics Countermeasures (ECM)pod (42:5-3). PG II aircraft included the C-9492 controller during production (48:4).

The most controversial configuration change was the inclusion of the ALR-69 RWR in the PG aircraft. Since USAF aircraft normally contain the ALR-69 RWR, when aircraft USAF were diverted, GD had to remove the ALR-69, and eventually replaced it with the ALR-46(V)-9 (59). The PAFPFT took exception to this proposal and continually pressed for theALR-69 (19). After a series of technical discussions and political pressures by the Government of Pakistan, the ALR-69 was finally approved for PG aircraft on 24 November 1982(42:5-3). PG I aircraft have been retrofitted with the ALR-69, incorporated under ECP 0936, by the second quarter of CY 1984, and the ALR-69 will be incorporated in PG II before delivery under ECP 0715RICI (42:5-3). "
 
Lastly - no need to toot the horn but in case there were doubters on the TEAM(and not all Pakistanis) that was sent:

"USAF managers, for example, reported thatthe six PAF Peace Gate I pilots "performed 'superbly' and that the 388TFW Academics Section (was) very complimentary on the PAF students' efforts and capabilities" (45:9). The USAFTAWC staff reported that the Pakistani pilots attendingALQ-131 training at Eglin AFB easily mastered the technology associated with the computer reprogramming support concept and intended to implement an aggressive training program on their return (27). Management also reported that the maintenance students did extremely well. Both USAF and contractor instructors stated that the PAF students are "of quality equal to the best of foreign military trainees"
 
Oldie but really interesting read if you have not seen it before on why the F-16 for PAF and why it has a somewhat better availability rate especially the resource management system(which I heard separately was unique for the region - IAF had nothing comparable for a long time). Which BTW the USAF suggested the PAF do -- just in case typical Umrikan hatred comes in regarding "They sanctioned us!!"
@AeronautIR @Raider 21 @Yasser76
Do keep the date of publication in mind. 1984
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA147543.pdf

In early strategy discussions, US managers stressed that in-country supply resource management was the most critical variable for meeting the support demands of the initial PAF flying program(41:12). The Project Falcon Team agreed, stating that "modern complex, sophisticated weapons systems such as theF-16 demand a corresponding modern, responsive logistics system"
    • The Peace Gate program adopted an automated resource management system to track and manage spare parts, maintenance resources, and logistical support. This system was critical for minimizing delays and ensuring aircraft availability.
Thank you for sharing this. This Automated system (CALMS) changed the complete maintenance strategy and logistics of PAF, not to mention the improvements in flight safety culture, work ethics etc.
It also helped in improving IT branch.
F-16's impact on PAF goes way beyond just a fighter jet. It transformed the organization in almost every field.
 
It's not like we have Pakistanis who have their own obsession with the F-16 because of their Don Quixote ideals against the US. Everything from kill switches to permissions in fights which they refuse to use their brains to research and have the honesty to admit they are delusional fools making up fear, while the aircraft for its entire record has been the most effective force pound for pound in the PAF from both an availability, effectiveness and psychological factor.

Very true, this however is institutional, F-16 obsession seems national in India
 
Hearsay is one problem - the society which has little to show for itself but claims to know everything and refuses to consider "What if I am wrong". Either way, the very thin veneer I keep talking about in Pakistani society who are the best, honest, competent or the combination of all will keep things going until they cant - the rest can go...to Pakistan as they have wanted it.

The F-16 isnt exactly getting hurt in its feelings - there is nearly 4000 of them out there with a combat effectiveness record unmatched by anything post WW2 of which the PAF is actually a VERY SMALL OPERATOR.

True, but in terms of history and combat experiance I think PAF rank closely behind USAF and IDF as an F-16 operator
 
Thank you for sharing this. This Automated system (CALMS) changed the complete maintenance strategy and logistics of PAF, not to mention the improvements in flight safety culture, work ethics etc.
It also helped in improving IT branch.
F-16's impact on PAF goes way beyond just a fighter jet. It transformed the organization in almost every field.

100% this, its induction and use had a transformational effect way beyond its actual technical capabilities and air frame numbers. It essentially helped the PAF "grow up", from a group of very capable pilots with some jets to a modern combat organisation along world standards
 
It also probably explains how they incorporated this expertise to keep a high availability rate for other types, especially when it comes to the JF17 and J10C.

Edit: I remember years ago a PAF official giving an interview at an airshow stating how they have developed a global logistics and supply system for export customers of the JF17.
 
It also probably explains how they incorporated this expertise to keep a high availability rate for other types, especially when it comes to the JF17 and J10C.

Edit: I remember years ago a PAF official giving an interview at an airshow stating how they have developed a global logistics and supply system for export customers of the JF17.

Yeah, exactly, to give one example, I remember a close relative who served at Sarghoda at time of induction ( he was on Mirage at the time). Prior to F-16 arrival most PAF Sqds did their own frontline maintenece.

US doctrine emphasised the Wing as opposed to the Sqd as nerve centre of ops, training and maintenece. As a result PAF pooled all its F-16s at wing level, this resulted in more overall aircraft being available and less duplication of men and equipment. It also explains why for a long time you never saw our F-16s with Squadron marking. 11 sqd pilots would fly planes that officially "belonged" to 9 sqd and vice versa, but basically all of them belonged to 38 Wing.

This is where dispersing assets and having sub fleet variants within fleets hurts us. We had around 10 different Mirage variants at one point and I think now we have around 3 different F-16 fleets (Block 52/MLU/ADF).
Issue here is obviously an ADF pilot (unless he has converted) cannot fly a Block 52. A 17sqd engineer cannot help fix a 9 Sqd engine issue, the parts for the internal parts of MLU EW kit cannot be used for Block 52 and so on and so on.

USAF is brilliant in industrial, technical and economic efficiencies and bought this philosophy to the PAF
 
Yeah, exactly, to give one example, I remember a close relative who served at Sarghoda at time of induction ( he was on Mirage at the time). Prior to F-16 arrival most PAF Sqds did their own frontline maintenece.

US doctrine emphasised the Wing as opposed to the Sqd as nerve centre of ops, training and maintenece. As a result PAF pooled all its F-16s at wing level, this resulted in more overall aircraft being available and less duplication of men and equipment. It also explains why for a long time you never saw our F-16s with Squadron marking. 11 sqd pilots would fly planes that officially "belonged" to 9 sqd and vice versa, but basically all of them belonged to 38 Wing.

This is where dispersing assets and having sub fleet variants within fleets hurts us. We had around 10 different Mirage variants at one point and I think now we have around 3 different F-16 fleets (Block 52/MLU/ADF).
Issue here is obviously an ADF pilot (unless he has converted) cannot fly a Block 52. A 17sqd engineer cannot help fix a 9 Sqd engine issue, the parts for the internal parts of MLU EW kit cannot be used for Block 52 and so on and so on.

USAF is brilliant in industrial, technical and economic efficiencies and bought this philosophy to the PAF

We had total of 16 mirage variants in service at one point iirc but only 5 or 6 variants with any meaningful difference were in service at any time
 

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