PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Hi,

That tea + dinner was also fantastic for 60000 pows after 1971 as well.

so, can robust pilot training and brought up as a fighter pilot, can reverse such losses?

 

[MastanKhan]

so, can robust pilot training and brought up as a fighter pilot, can reverse such losses?

Hi,

Loss is a function of combat---. It can only be reduced---because there will be some on your side also who would take un-neccassry risks to become " SHAHEED ".

They will dive into the battle just like Wing Cmndr. Abhinandan did---.

When our jawan died with bullets to his chest---the enemy commanders sent a note of bravery alongwith his body.

Wing Cmndr. Abhinandan took the missile coming in---and yet we sent him out with a public disgrace---.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Hi,

Loss is a function of combat---. It can only be reduced---because there will be some on your side also who would take un-neccassry risks to become " SHAHEED ".

They will dive into the battle just like Wing Cmndr. Abhinandan did---.

When our jawan died with bullets to his chest---the enemy commanders sent a note of bravery alongwith his body.

Wing Cmndr. Abhinandan took the missile coming in---and yet we sent him out with a public disgrace---.

that means, pilots can change characterization of war (loss, function of combat!), extent of which, is determined by culture, hardware, and planning.

thats a terrifying reality you have just told, because loss function goes both ways!
especially, when pilots saw, how Abhinandan was let go!

in other words, we have more to lose, even if we manage to accumulate sufficient budget, gravitational pull of '71, in the mind of planners can only be taken away by giving more independence to planners.

 

[AeronautIR]

What about quantum communications ? I heard it can't be hacked.. . .... .... Apart from hangers, trained maintenance crews and pilots what are other infrastructure needs that Pakistan is lacking to induct fifth generation fighter ?

There isn't anything else if you can safely park, fly and continuously maintain a 5th gen on your bases.

 

[MastanKhan]

yrs old nowthat means, pilots can change characterization of war (loss, function of combat!), extent of which, is determined by culture, hardware, and planning.

thats a terrifying reality you have just told, because loss function goes both ways!
especially, when pilots saw, how Abhinandan was let go!

in other words, we have more to lose, even if we manage to accumulate sufficient budget, gravitational pull of '71, in the mind of planners can only be taken away by giving more independence to planners.

Hi,

Write in a little more clear manner for me to understand / respond.

You are making my brain do cartwheels. Remember---I am

 

[Cipher212]

Last thing PAF needs is a myriad of different platforms. Less is more for am airforce on budget.

JF-17 / J-10 / J-35 should be the Low-Mid-Hi composition in future. Despite not leaving a single corner of the Yankee boot unsucked, we have not received any meaningful upgrade or new airframes for Vipers. Not even a crumb of AIM-120D.

Better to close that door within a decade and start planning for an exclusively Chinese fighter fleet.

H Hopefully SCALP, Hammer and Brahmos equivalents for the J-10s. They can carry more than the JFs. A2G is the only place where PAF seems to lack vs IAF.

 

[Michael]

That is beside the point. For context, people are converting F-7PG into drones and upgrading Mirages with AESA, inducting J-16D in PAF and Pak Navy. Theoretically, this is doable with external pods and extra avionics.

Based on the J-10C platform, there are several options for modifying an EW fighter jet:

1. Directly and completely transplant the mature EW module system from the J-15D/J-16D.
Outcome: Due to the platform's capacity limitations, these EW modules must operate at significantly reduced performance levels, otherwise they will crash (the platform's capabilities cannot support them). However, its price will not decrease. It's like spending close to the price of a J-16D to buy a J-10C/EW, but only being able to utilize about 60% of its performance.

2. Transplant some EW module systems from the J-15D/J-16D.
Outcome: Functionality is limited.
PLAAF's J-10Cs often carry an EW pod called "K/RKL-700A".
This is the cheapest and most practical solution. However, to date, we haven't seen any PAF J-10CEs suspending this EW pod (rumored to cost around $7 million per unit. The exact price is unclear, but it will certainly be in the millions of dollars.). ------ Perhaps my knowledge is limited. If any Pakistani friends have such photos, they might be able to provide them.

3. Develop a new generation of EW modules specifically for the J-10C/EW based on next-generation advanced technologies.
Outcome: Achieve EW combat capabilities similar to the J-15D/J-16D on a smaller airframe platform. However, the price of this J-10C/EW will far exceed that of the J-16D. Who will pay for it? Who will foot the bill for the enormous research and development costs? ------ Clearly, none of the target customers can afford this expense.

The J-10 series fighter jets' historical mission in the PLAAF is nearing its end. Within the existing technological knowledge base, all its possible development paths have been blocked. It has no future in the PLAAF. China can simply maintain its existing fleet. Once these active-duty fighters reach the end of their service life and are retired, the J-10 series fighter jets will completely enter the history museum.

Now, its future depends entirely on the foreign trade market. As long as someone is willing to pay, anything is possible. But who will pay?

 

[Mav3rick]

Hi,

Loss is a function of combat---. It can only be reduced---because there will be some on your side also who would take un-neccassry risks to become " SHAHEED ".

They will dive into the battle just like Wing Cmndr. Abhinandan did---.

When our jawan died with bullets to his chest---the enemy commanders sent a note of bravery alongwith his body.

Wing Cmndr. Abhinandan took the missile coming in---and yet we sent him out with a public disgrace---.

To start off, Abhinandan was deaf and blind from home support due to PAF's jamming of his Jet. I also believe Abhinandan was further done in by jingoism and false superiority complex. He thought the might of the IAF was behind him and that the IAF was superior to PAF. It is not likely that he was coming in to be a martyr; he was rather looking to take a trophy back home as a hero.

 

[SABRE]

To start off, Abhinandan was deaf and blind from home support due to PAF's jamming of his Jet. I also believe Abhinandan was further done in by jingoism and false superiority complex. He thought the might of the IAF was behind him and that the IAF was superior to PAF. It is not likely that he was coming in to be a martyr; he was rather looking to take a trophy back home as a hero.

This much he said himself.

 

[flyingorca]

That is beside the point. For context, people are converting F-7PG into drones and upgrading Mirages with AESA, inducting J-16D in PAF and Pak Navy. Theoretically, this is doable with external pods and extra avionics.

Will upgraded Mirage also be able to carry BVR missiles like SD10 or PL15? Or could this Mirage upgrade be diversion tactics to confuse India with what PAF is really cooking behind the scenes.
Maybe JF block 1 is being upgraded to block 3 standard which will pose bigger threat to IAF.

 

[Deino]

Hi,

A thumbs down by JEW BOY on something not related to him---???

• 
• 

Reactions:Deino, Yasser76, maxpane and 1 other person

Why do you again - and in fact I was more than happy that you were absent for so long! - insult me as a jew!? I thought you got a chat with the mods to stop this BS?

And why I added a ? Simply since it is again you typical stupid chest-bumping BS!

@Musings @Mr X

 

[AeronautIR]

Will upgraded Mirage also be able to carry BVR missiles like SD10 or PL15? Or could this Mirage upgrade be diversion tactics to confuse India with what PAF is really cooking behind the scenes.
Maybe JF block 1 is being upgraded to block 3 standard which will pose bigger threat to IAF.

There is no Mirage upgrade, F7 drone, J-16D induction etc

 

[PakShaheen_79]

The J-10 series fighter jets' historical mission in the PLAAF is nearing its end. Within the existing technological knowledge base, all its possible development paths have been blocked. It has no future in the PLAAF. China can simply maintain its existing fleet. Once these active-duty fighters reach the end of their service life and are retired, the J-10 series fighter jets will completely enter the history museum.

Now, its future depends entirely on the foreign trade market. As long as someone is willing to pay, anything is possible. But who will pay?

As long as they are capable of integrating new communicaiton gear, their utility as missile truck will remain there in emerging distributed aerial warfare. Integration has become more critical than the systems themselves. What newer F-15Es have them despite being decades old platforms? USAF is inducting these fighters. F-16s to be remain in active service till 2050s by some estimates. Why? Because their respective OEMs are able to upgrade their aivonics, communication gear constantly. They can't put more takeoff weight but they can certainly make them smarter. This is where J-10C will also evolve. Raw parameters will remain same but the platform will become more integrated with help of newer generation of avionics and communication modules. In CEC type architecture, individual platform or sensor has v limited value, it is the overall architecture that matters relying on secure encrypyed, low-letancy network. So, don't cast out J-10Cs that quickly.

 

[Michael]

As long as they are capable of integrating new communicaiton gear, their utility as missile truck will remain there in emerging distributed aerial warfare. Integration has become more critical than the systems themselves. What newer F-15Es have them despite being decades old platforms? USAF is inducting these fighters. F-16s to be remain in active service till 2050s by some estimates. Why? Because their respective OEMs are able to upgrade their aivonics, communication gear constantly. They can't put more takeoff weight but they can certainly make them smarter. This is where J-10C will also evolve. Raw parameters will remain same but the platform will become more integrated with help of newer generation of avionics and communication modules. In CEC type architecture, individual platform or sensor has v limited value, it is the overall architecture that matters relying on secure encrypyed, low-letancy network. So, don't cast out J-10Cs that quickly.

In China's military industrial philosophy, if we don't have a better platform, we'll push its performance to its limits.

In September 1959, China's H-6 bomber, a copy of the Soviet Tu-16, successfully completed its maiden flight. Since then, Chinese military enterprises have continuously upgraded and iterated it. Even today, it remains in service with the PLAAF. We had no better choice.

But fighter jet platforms…we now have far too many better options…

There's a saying among Chinese military enthusiasts: "The Americans stood still, waiting for us for 30 years, so we worked hard to catch up…" Now, we're almost catching up with the Americans.

Do you think the Chinese will stand still?

 

[Yasser76]

In China's military industrial philosophy, if we don't have a better platform, we'll push its performance to its limits.

In September 1959, China's H-6 bomber, a copy of the Soviet Tu-16, successfully completed its maiden flight. Since then, Chinese military enterprises have continuously upgraded and iterated it. Even today, it remains in service with the PLAAF. We had no better choice.

But fighter jet platforms…we now have far too many better options…

There's a saying among Chinese military enthusiasts: "The Americans stood still, waiting for us for 30 years, so we worked hard to catch up…" Now, we're almost catching up with the Americans.

Do you think the Chinese will stand still?

I think what also helped China was US distraction in Afghanistan and Iraq for 20 years.. Much funding was pushed here and not to catching up with China. This made US lag for 20 years and now we are all seeing the results....