PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

In China's military industrial philosophy, if we don't have a better platform, we'll push its performance to its limits.

In September 1959, China's H-6 bomber, a copy of the Soviet Tu-16, successfully completed its maiden flight. Since then, Chinese military enterprises have continuously upgraded and iterated it. Even today, it remains in service with the PLAAF. We had no better choice.

But fighter jet platforms…we now have far too many better options…

There's a saying among Chinese military enthusiasts: "The Americans stood still, waiting for us for 30 years, so we worked hard to catch up…" Now, we're almost catching up with the Americans.

Do you think the Chinese will stand still?

What is the progress on H-20?
Today i see a post on X(twitter) comparing the B-21 Raider design with H-20 and the only difference was on the end of wings H-20 has upward tilts. will it be 6th gen highly stealth and longer range bomber like B-21 or since we have J-36 in testing will that be suffice and china wont go for H-20 but rely on J36? as to me J36 is also kind of a bomber but has more speed and maneurability and less payload capacity than b21?

 

[Yommie]

What is the progress on H-20?
Today i see a post on X(twitter) comparing the B-21 Raider design with H-20 and the only difference was on the end of wings H-20 has upward tilts. will it be 6th gen highly stealth and longer range bomber like B-21 or since we have J-36 in testing will that be suffice and china wont go for H-20 but rely on J36? as to me J36 is also kind of a bomber but has more speed and maneurability and less payload capacity than b21?

China is not going to build a dedicated big expensive bomber in this day and age. As Russia Ukraine war has shown, what can be built quickly in huge numbers wins the day. To this end, J-36 replace H-20. J-36 can be built in the hundreds and is versatile as a multi role fighter.

 

[Corax]

Hi,

You are a spy on this forum trying to dig up "sensitive" information from vulnerable pakistani kids.

You have a very simple MODUS OPERANDI----. You NEGATE any critical information posted here by pakistanis on purpose so that they can dig in to get confirmation for you just to look good.

And of course vulnerable Pakistani kids will be privy to "sensitive" information.

 

[MastanKhan]

To start off, Abhinandan was deaf and blind from home support due to PAF's jamming of his Jet. I also believe Abhinandan was further done in by jingoism and false superiority complex. He thought the might of the IAF was behind him and that the IAF was superior to PAF. It is not likely that he was coming in to be a martyr; he was rather looking to take a trophy back home as a hero.

Hi,

How about Capt Sherkhan---?

Every soldier wants to take a 'trophy' back home---till they don't---.

About "martyr"---. You mean to say they don't want to be a martyr when they get strapped to their seat in the aircraft---?

You mean to say that when you go out to combat and death comes shreaking at you like a banshee----martyrdom comes not cross the mind---?

 

[Deino]

Hi,

You are a spy on this forum trying to dig up "sensitive" information from vulnerable pakistani kids.

You have a very simple MODUS OPERANDI----. You NEGATE any critical information posted here by pakistanis on purpose so that they splurge out more for you just to look good.

I'm not a spy in exactly the same way I'm not a Jew even if you always try to portray me that ways!

"You have a very simple MODUS OPERANDI----" You flaunt your (undoubted) knowledge and experience, but mix it with nationalistic posturing and the arrogance and pomposity of an old man whose best days are long gone and whose days are probably numbered altogether.
You try to impress some simple-minded, gullible "youngsters" with this rambling nonsense. And this frustration at no longer playing a role in professional discussions, at never having achieved what you wanted and what, according to your eminence and delusion, you should have been entitled to, is eating you up inside.
That's why you meet anyone who exposes this contradiction — in fact, your failure — with merciless bitterness, scorn, and malice.

Therefore, I can only ask myself: is it truly malice, rancour and arrogance, or rather despair, that drives you? It certainly isn't knowledge, the will in sharing knowledge, or any honest discussion.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

I'm not a spy in exactly the same way I'm not a Jew even if you always try to portray me that ways!

"You have a very simple MODUS OPERANDI----" You flaunt your (undoubted) knowledge and experience, but mix it with nationalistic posturing and the arrogance and pomposity of an old man whose best days are long gone and whose days are probably numbered altogether.
You try to impress some simple-minded, gullible "youngsters" with this rambling nonsense. And this frustration at no longer playing a role in professional discussions, at never having achieved what you wanted and what, according to your eminence and delusion, you should have been entitled to, is eating you up inside.
That's why you meet anyone who exposes this contradiction — in fact, your failure — with merciless bitterness, scorn, and malice.

Therefore, I can only ask myself: is it truly malice, rancour and arrogance, or rather despair, that drives you? It certainly isn't knowledge, the will in sharing knowledge, or any honest discussion.

I have to agree with Mastan Khan.

why would anybody be interested in details of spec. of hardware of PAF?

not only that, leaning of corroboration from various different sources.

this could result in leakage of physical location of hardware
(perhaps, you already knew that!)

I tend to stay away from pages like these, for a reason!

 

[mythbuster]

Last thing PAF needs is a myriad of different platforms. Less is more for am airforce on budget.

JF-17 / J-10 / J-35 should be the Low-Mid-Hi composition in future. Despite not leaving a single corner of the Yankee boot unsucked, we have not received any meaningful upgrade or new airframes for Vipers. Not even a crumb of AIM-120D.

Better to close that door within a decade and start planning for an exclusively Chinese fighter fleet.

H Hopefully SCALP, Hammer and Brahmos equivalents for the J-10s. They can carry more than the JFs. A2G is the only place where PAF seems to lack vs IAF.

We will take American equipment only if its on yard sale.

 

[Ak01]

I have to agree with Mastan Khan.

why would anybody be interested in details of spec. of hardware of PAF?

not only that, leaning of corroboration from various different sources.

this could result in leakage of physical location of hardware
(perhaps, you already knew that!)

I tend to stay away from pages like these, for a reason!

i would be less worried about andy and instead the incompetent morons in the forces who will happily leak stuff as a result of poor opsec.

 

[flyingorca]

There is no Mirage upgrade, F7 drone, J-16D induction etc

J-16D? I watched your video on this topic the other day and you mentioned that J-10D is better option then J16D for PAF.
J-10D - J-10c and JF17
J16D - J35

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

i would be less worried about andy and instead the incompetent morons in the forces who will happily leak stuff as a result of poor opsec.

there are less dealers than buyers
(my last post here)

 

[Deino]

I have to agree with Mastan Khan.

why would anybody be interested in details of spec. of hardware of PAF?

not only that, leaning of corroboration from various different sources.

this could result in leakage of physical location of hardware
(perhaps, you already knew that!)

I tend to stay away from pages like these, for a reason!

I think you've completely misunderstood me. Unfortunately, the blurring of different perspectives makes things more complicated than MK's black-and-white portrayal:

I'm interested in facts, especially facts regarding Chinese systems, and not as a spy, because then I wouldn't still be working as a chemistry teacher. Even more so then I would hide who I am ...

So, to reiterate, I'm interested in facts, and if idiots weren't constantly spreading nonsense—whether out of stupidity, malice, or nationalism—it's irrelevant, then I wouldn't have to comment on it!

Therefore, as @Ak01 nicely put it, I'm not the problem, but rather "the incompetent morons."

 

[Cipher212]

We will take American equipment only if its on yard sale.

But what if wohi yard sale price par mazee J-10 aur JF-17 mile?

Also I am not sure exactly how PAF calculates it's target fleet numbers but assume in a real war that many will be lost on the ground due to India having full reach inside Pakistan with hypersonic in the future.

The best aircraft to keep a surplus of would be the JF-17 followed by the J-10. Both in theory are much easier to replace during a war than any western platform. That is assuming that PAF eventually moves PAC Kamra deeper into the West in some mountainous area and China agrees to send second hand J-10s in case the worst happens.

I do not see us being able to do the same with F-16s.

 

[AeronautIR]

J-16D? I watched your video on this topic the other day and you mentioned that J-10D is better option then J16D for PAF.
J-10D - J-10c and JF17
J16D - J35

Many were claiming PAF is inducting J-16D. My point is that I don't see that happening. We may be able to afford a J-10 in EW role sometime in future. Similar platform but with some added avionics if we can afford. Otherwise, HAVA SOJ, GBJ and drones will have to suffice for now.

 

[mythbuster]

But what if wohi yard sale price par mazee J-10 aur JF-17 mile?

Also I am not sure exactly how PAF calculates it's target fleet numbers but assume in a real war that many will be lost on the ground due to India having full reach inside Pakistan with hypersonic in the future.

The best aircraft to keep a surplus of would be the JF-17 followed by the J-10. Both in theory are much easier to replace during a war than any western platform. That is assuming that PAF eventually moves PAC Kamra deeper into the West in some mountainous area and China agrees to send second hand J-10s in case the worst happens.

I do not see us being able to do the same with F-16s.

I don't agree with your take " India having full reach inside Pakistan" agree with the rest.

 

[Ak01]

Many were claiming PAF is inducting J-16D. My point is that I don't see that happening. We may be able to afford a J-10 in EW role sometime in future. Similar platform but with some added avionics if we can afford. Otherwise, HAVA SOJ, GBJ and drones will have to suffice for now.

Just like to get this straight:

PAF cant afford the J-16D, because its too expensive.

But PAF can afford to buy the J-10D which would be a fully custom version, designed only for the PAF, with R&D, Certification, testing and then production lines/facilities set up, purely for an order of maybe, 10 aircraft? at a push 12?

Do you see how silly this sounds?

What do you think it would cost to develop a 'J-10D'?

The development budget for the EA-18G, as an offshoot of the FA-18SH, was $1bn.

Heck, just the development budget of the upgrade of the NGJ-MB, to NGJ-MBX was $200 million.

So now, please let us know how it would be cheaper to custom develop a version of the J-10 for EW, particularly one that would be procured in low quantities. Id love to hear this.