Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[Hamartia Antidote]

Brzezinski once listed China, Russia, and Iran as the Big Triangle countries that could threaten US hegemony. Why can Iran be on par with China and Russia? Of course, it's because of the strait.

Now is the opportunity for Iran to use the strait to make the world aware of its importance, and all accusations and insults will be borne by Trump and Israel.

That's a pretty weak Big Triangle to lean on if pipelines were simply built to bypass the strait. It's not like they don't have the money to do it. It's just that they didn't invest heavily in it (yes they have the single Red Sea pipe).

Basra oil is scheduled for the first time to be exported via the Turkish port of Ceyhan, a source at the North Oil Company said Monday, marking a new phase in Iraq’s oil export operations following a recent agreement between the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) and the federal government.

Iraq is trying to circumvent the Hormuz blockade. So far, Tehran didn't attack any energy infrastructure that is linked to Turkey. The pipeline has its limits, though. It can only carry 10% of Iraq's oil exports. Enough to survive but too little to live.

This is exactly what I mean about a weak Big Triangle if simply pipelines can get around the strait problem.

China even invested in a railway line all the way to Europe to get around any naval blockade. Do we think pipelines cant be rerouted around the strait?

 

[Blain2]

I have been here for 15 years or possibly more. So, yeah, after 15 years of discussing politics with the Pakistanis, I understand a thing or two about it.

I don't get your rant about the representation of the Shiite in the Pakistani system of governance. I didn't even talk about it and it doesn't matter to me. I don't get its relevance here either.

Pakistan does not have any means of being more than a messenger in this so-called Accord. First of all, Pakistan is not a permanent member of the UN Security Council. Hence, if this so-called "Accord" is even agreed upon by both sides, and it gets violated by the US tomorrow, Pakistan will be nothing by a bystander per international law.

Secondly, Pakistan does not have a military weight that enables it to challenge the United States in a future conflict with Iran. Sure, you have nuclear weapons but your nuclear arsenal is not even remotely comparable to the US arsenal. And your conventional capabilities do not match the US capabilities either. Your air force is good against an incompetent regional power like India, but will be obliterated against the USAF and USN. You are a regional power at best.

Your ceasefire proposal was one-sided. I don't need to be able to read the minds of Pakistani politicians to see that. Iran gets nothing certain from that deal, literally nothing, while the US achieves one of their main objects in the first step of the deal, i.e. to open the Strait of Hormuz, and they can replenish their depleted ABMs. Also, there is no reason for Iran to agree to US nuclear demands when the US has failed to achieve them through war. So, yes. It is one-sided and you drafted that deal with the presence of KSA, which is a belligerent state in this war.

First rule, when you post here, don't call what others post as "rants". Otherwise everything you post is no more than a silly rant. Hope you get the point.

"I don't think the same is true about the Pakistani system though."

You stated this first and that is why I expanded on the make-up of the Pakistani system since you were projecting that our government thinks differently. It does not. I dilated upon it since you brought it up. Please pay attention to what you write instead of attacking others.

Second, there aren't that many brokers in this space. You can question our government's motivations till kingdom come, that won't solve this war for you.

Third, not a single one of your point stands to the test of time and previous mediation efforts.

All countries that "broker" are essentially messengers. Unless Iran had a diplomatic presence in the US or vice versa, you do need messengers to get things started.

Pakistan does not need to have "military weight". That is not the job of the broker/messenger. What weight did Qatar have brokering peace in Gaza? Or Turkey brokering Russia-Ukraine war? These are all efforts from "neutral" entities. Pakistan's own military weight is of no consequence here. The only question that matters is are both sides ok enough to use the good offices of Pakistan to relay messages. That is it. Nothing more, nothing less.

"Your ceasefire proposal was one-sided. I don't need to be able to read the minds of Pakistani politicians to see that. Iran gets nothing certain from that deal, literally nothing, while the US achieves one of their main objects in the first step of the deal, i.e. to open the Strait of Hormuz, and they can replenish their depleted ABMs. Also, there is no reason for Iran to agree to US nuclear demands when the US has failed to achieve them through war. So, yes. It is one-sided and you drafted that deal with the presence of KSA, which is a belligerent state in this war."

That speaks to your lack of understanding/information. Pakistan did NOT propose anything. It took the list from both sides and conveyed them. This happened before the lists were made public on social media by both sides. Iran is obviously going to get NOTHING from the deal because the deal has to be negotiated. The basics of negotiating are that both sides come with their maximalist positions and then some mediator/broker tries to help bridge the difference. So not sure where you got this "one-sided deal" story from. There is nothing factual in it.

At the end of the day, Iran is taking damage, as is the Gulf, Israel and the US. Maybe they will avail of the good offices offered by Pakistan, and maybe they won't. I just mentioned that Pakistan's motivation is to see this war end and it is not out of concern for the US.

 

[hasssanali8998]

Iranian demands
Looks like we are just exchanging proposals

 

[Immortals]

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[hasssanali8998]

How would Pakistan know this?

While yes I doubt Haaretz and that is very dubious claim but it is very stupid to think Pakistan has no spies in Iran

 

[Immortals]

Barak Hussein Obama continues making shit up

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[PAKISTANFOREVER]

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How would Pakistan know this? Zionist propaganda are all over the place.

Either way, I hope these numbers are true.

 

[Immortals]

View attachment 190734
While yes I doubt Haaretz and that is very dubious claim but it is very stupid to think Pakistan has no spies in Iran

And these “spies” walk around deep inside missile cities counting missiles and drones?

 

[Fasbre2]

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Time to hit Dimona, why are you waiting..

 

[maverick]

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Only a fool would completely believe the US narrative that the only objective was to rescue the downed pilot.

I am highly confident that they were there to trial the possibility of extracting uranium. Nobody sends 100 operators, two transport aircraft and several helicopter, risking them all for a pilot. It just doesn't make sense.

What they propagate as success, is actually mixed in with failure. Need to stop believing the hype of the US and Israeli military carrying out the impossible all the time.

That said, this is also a wakup call for Iran to comb through the area with drones on any possibly FARP set up by US. Knowing these two, this whole situation could actually turn out to be a distraction for an even bigger operation. They should still not be underestimated.

Side note: Pakistan's Strategic Plans Division Force should be watching this closely. Any possible operation against Iran's uranium stockpile will be a template against Pakistan. Possibly not during Trump's time, but a leader who probably hates Pakistan. You can bet they will craft out better plans to secure Pakistan's nuclear weapons.

An israeli Army (border patrol on her ID) lady embedded in with USAF Team during this operation.

Any update on what happened to these personnel? Were some captured, some lifted off ? Anyone died?

 

[Desert]

I'm curious. Does IRGC have any plans for ground invasion of Bahrain and Kuwait in case things got worse ? and how will the IRGC transport troops hmmm

 

[maverick]

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Any more info, was it hit? were the ASBMs intercepted by accompanying destroyers?

 

[D. John Trump]

I have been here for 15 years or possibly more. So, yeah, after 15 years of discussing politics with the Pakistanis, I understand a thing or two about it.

I don't get your rant about the representation of the Shiite in the Pakistani system of governance. I didn't even talk about it and it doesn't matter to me. I don't get its relevance here either.

Pakistan does not have any means of being more than a messenger in this so-called Accord. First of all, Pakistan is not a permanent member of the UN Security Council. Hence, if this so-called "Accord" is even agreed upon by both sides, and it gets violated by the US tomorrow, Pakistan will be nothing by a bystander per international law.

Secondly, Pakistan does not have a military weight that enables it to challenge the United States in a future conflict with Iran. Sure, you have nuclear weapons but your nuclear arsenal is not even remotely comparable to the US arsenal. And your conventional capabilities do not match the US capabilities either. Your air force is good against an incompetent regional power like India, but will be obliterated against the USAF and USN. You are a regional power at best.

Your ceasefire proposal was one-sided. I don't need to be able to read the minds of Pakistani politicians to see that. Iran gets nothing certain from that deal, literally nothing, while the US achieves one of their main objects in the first step of the deal, i.e. to open the Strait of Hormuz, and they can replenish their depleted ABMs. Also, there is no reason for Iran to agree to US nuclear demands when the US has failed to achieve them through war. So, yes. It is one-sided and you drafted that deal with the presence of KSA, which is a belligerent state in this war.

It's your own deterrence that can guarantee peace.Pakistan's military weight doesn't count.

 

[Blain2]

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How would Pakistan know this? Zionist propaganda are all over the place.

Bigger question, why would Pakistan estimate/hypothesize on the size of the Iranian arsenal? It is bogus news just to implicate Pakistan for one reason or another.

 

[hasssanali8998]

And these “spies” walk around deep inside missile cities counting missiles and drones?

View attachment 190735

no they spie on the people whose job it is to count/build those missile , they calculate based on the amount of materials bought etc etc

lets stop before we get into another iran vs pak fight because of a dubious israeli source