Hangor Class Submarine | Updates & Discussion

I still think we need to order 10 more for Hangor class after 8 previous orders AND new nuclear powered submarines.
8 Hangor subs are enough and will last us till 2050s, 3 Agosta 90 are also upgraded with latest Turkish systems, so again till 2050s. After 2030s i think the 2 old Agosta 70s will be replaced by 4 Turkish Atılay-class submarine, taking Pakistan Total electric diesel submarine Total to 15. Then we can move towards nuclear powered ballistic missile submarines, either Type 41 or Turkey Nukden submarine, its also possible we may build our own so it can carry nukes (after 2040s).
 
Go for Type 041 a few years after these 8 have all been indicted.

I was reading more about Type 041 here:


Traditionally, nuclear submarines have been large vessels, weighing between 8,000 to 10,000 tons. However, given the shallow waters (around 300 meters deep) in the regions near China, there is ongoing debate about the necessity of deploying such massive submarines in these areas. Instead, the focus has shifted to smaller, more maneuverable nuclear-powered submarines.

Sources suggest that China may be developing the "Type 041," a mini nuclear submarine that is essentially a nuclear-powered version of the existing Type 039 submarine. These submarines are expected to be between 2,000 to 4,000 tons, much smaller than traditional nuclear submarines.

A key feature under discussion is the Air-Independent Propulsion (AIP) system. AIP allows submarines to operate without the need for atmospheric oxygen, enhancing their stealth and operational efficiency. While conventional submarines with AIP have been successful, they still face limitations in shallow waters due to their noise levels and detectable activity footprints.

In contrast, nuclear-powered submarines, which inherently possess AIP capabilities, offer significant advantages. These submarines can operate with low noise levels, making them difficult to detect. Unlike AIP submarines that need to maintain low speeds and extreme caution in shallow waters, nuclear-powered submarines can move quickly and cover greater distances without compromising stealth.

In the face of regional competitors like Japan and South Korea, which operate conventional submarines, achieving superiority through conventional technologies alone is challenging. Innovations such as anechoic tile technology, shock absorption, and noise reduction are common, but do not provide a definitive edge.

The introduction of a mini nuclear submarine like the "Type 041" could offer a qualitative leap in capabilities. Similar to the France's "Rubis" class submarines, China's adaptation of its conventional submarine designs to nuclear propulsion could significantly enhance its underwater combat effectiveness.

Adapting nuclear reactors for smaller submarines could allow for reduced power output, making it feasible to use these reactors in conventional submarine platforms. This could result in submarines with displacement similar to conventional models but with superior underwater endurance and operational capabilities.

The integration of nuclear power into smaller submarines could lead to a bifurcation in the types of attack submarines: larger ones for extended missions and smaller ones for near-shore operations. This dual approach would enable strategic versatility, allowing for protection of strategic missile submarines in open waters while also serving as an underwater deterrent in coastal areas.


I think we shouldn’t wait for the completion of the current 8 orders in process, we must move forward immediately with next plans (i.e Type 041 or more options) - the world is moving fast than train.
 
I still think we need to order 10 more for Hangor class after 8 previous orders AND new nuclear powered submarines.

$$$$

8 submarines of single Type - more than enough. Now wait for 5 years. Give time for technology to grow . And maybe I'm 5 years China will have a more modern, more capable conventional submarines which Pakistan can then purchase in like 4-8 Quantity.
 
Okay. Didn't knew.

If we can reload them and also have missiles storage compartment for additional 15-25 missiles then that would be really nice. But still, a submarine is stealth only till it fires it's weapon. If you launch torpedo or missile, your position is visible to enemy assets. So I wont focus too much on the reloads. Because for the surprise attack you only got 6 missiles to sink enemy assets otherwise they will come after you with mines, torpedoes and missiles.

Just mu take.
All pistols and rifles possess only a single barrel; consequently, the moment you fire your first shot, your position is exposed. Does this carry any particular significance?

Modern submarines are generally equipped with highly automated reloading systems; however, actual reloading efficiency varies somewhat depending on differences in the specific systems employed and the operational proficiency of the trained crew.

The current record stands as follows: the fastest time to reload a single torpedo tube is 15 seconds, while the entire complement of six torpedo tubes can be fully reloaded within two minutes.

The Hangor-class submarine is derived from the Type 039 series. While official Chinese sources do not explicitly specify the reloading times for this particular class, they do explicitly state that these submarines are equipped with automated reloading systems. Furthermore, the Hangor-class features a notably small standard crew complement, a characteristic that indicates a high degree of automation.
 
It's not since 2015. It started earlier from 2000s. Only 90s was the lost decade because of sanctions and no other real alternatives.

IMO, 2008 to 2010 were most significant years for Pakistan's military, PAF for first the time got its hands on AEW&Cs + Air refueler tankers + JF-17s first batch (first time ever BVR capability) + AMRAAMs next year. Situation awareness, BVR, air refueling all essential capabilities were added. It was force multiplied by many folds in just 2-3 years. Spada 2000 air defense systems were added in those years too.

2000s were also important as rapid growth of missile program, babur cruise missiles, shaheen missiles and all that. PAF's thunder development and Navy inducted those Zulfiqars + last of A90Bs.

However, yes since 2015 long due focus was finally given to PN.
You're correct. 2005 was the year where everyone was surprised by Pakistan acquiring cruise missile technology. It took the US intelligence by surprise. From that point onwards, Pakistan never looked back.

Some great developments, especially in the last decade.

1998: Ghauri tested.
1998: Nuclear weapons tested.
1999: Shaheen tested.
2005: Babur cruise missiles tested.
2005: C-130 transport aircraft acquired
2006: Zulfiqar frigates ordered.
2007: JF-17 Thunder inducted.
2008: ZDK-03 AWACS ordered.
2009: Saab 2000 (AEW&C) acquired.
2009: Ilyushin Il-78 Midas air refueler acquired.
2009: F-16s ordered
2011: Nasr tested.
2015: AH-1Z helicopters order (sanctioned)
2015: Hangoor submarines ordered
2017: Submarine launched Babur cruise missile tested.
2017: Ababeel MIRV tested.
2017: Yarmook corvettes ordered.
2018: Tughril frigates ordered.
2018: Milgem corvettes ordered.
2018: T129 ATAK ordered (sanctioned)
2018::VT4 tanks ordered.
2019: SH-15 155mm howitzers ordered.
2021: J-10Cs acquired.
2024: J-35s ordered.


There are tons of more but it's Saturday.
 
You're correct. 2005 was the year where everyone was surprised by Pakistan acquiring cruise missile technology. It took the US intelligence by surprise. From that point onwards, Pakistan never looked back.

Some great developments, especially in the last decade.

1998: Ghauri tested.
1998: Nuclear weapons tested.
1999: Shaheen tested.
2005: Babur cruise missiles tested.
2005: C-130 transport aircraft acquired
2006: Zulfiqar frigates ordered.
2007: JF-17 Thunder inducted.
2008: ZDK-03 AWACS ordered.
2009: Saab 2000 (AEW&C) acquired.
2009: Ilyushin Il-78 Midas air refueler acquired.
2009: F-16s ordered
2011: Nasr tested.
2015: AH-1Z helicopters order (sanctioned)
2015: Hangoor submarines ordered
2017: Submarine launched Babur cruise missile tested.
2017: Ababeel MIRV tested.
2017: Yarmook corvettes ordered.
2018: Tughril frigates ordered.
2018: Milgem corvettes ordered.
2018: T129 ATAK ordered (sanctioned)
2018::VT4 tanks ordered.
2019: SH-15 155mm howitzers ordered.
2021: J-10Cs acquired.
2024: J-35s ordered.


There are tons of more but it's Saturday.
F-16s were ordered in 2005/6 not 2009
 
You're correct. 2005 was the year where everyone was surprised by Pakistan acquiring cruise missile technology. It took the US intelligence by surprise. From that point onwards, Pakistan never looked back.

Some great developments, especially in the last decade.

1998: Ghauri tested.
1998: Nuclear weapons tested.
1999: Shaheen tested.
2005: Babur cruise missiles tested.
2005: C-130 transport aircraft acquired
2006: Zulfiqar frigates ordered.
2007: JF-17 Thunder inducted.
2008: ZDK-03 AWACS ordered.
2009: Saab 2000 (AEW&C) acquired.
2009: Ilyushin Il-78 Midas air refueler acquired.
2009: F-16s ordered
2011: Nasr tested.
2015: AH-1Z helicopters order (sanctioned)
2015: Hangoor submarines ordered
2017: Submarine launched Babur cruise missile tested.
2017: Ababeel MIRV tested.
2017: Yarmook corvettes ordered.
2018: Tughril frigates ordered.
2018: Milgem corvettes ordered.
2018: T129 ATAK ordered (sanctioned)
2018::VT4 tanks ordered.
2019: SH-15 155mm howitzers ordered.
2021: J-10Cs acquired.
2024: J-35s ordered.


There are tons of more but it's Saturday.


I would add JF-17 Block III, HQ-9/P air defence system, Haider (VT-4) tank, Wing Loong II drone, PRSS-1 reconnaissance satellite, Fatah-2 guided rocket system, and Bayraktar TB2 drone.
 
8 Hangor subs are enough and will last us till 2050s, 3 Agosta 90 are also upgraded with latest Turkish systems, so again till 2050s. After 2030s i think the 2 old Agosta 70s will be replaced by 4 Turkish Atılay-class submarine, taking Pakistan Total electric diesel submarine Total to 15. Then we can move towards nuclear powered ballistic missile submarines, either Type 41 or Turkey Nukden submarine, its also possible we may build our own so it can carry nukes (after 2040s).

It’s very reasonable if that’s more than enough. I just worried that Indian navy is a bit bigger than our navy. I know Indian Navy is not only focus on Pakistan coast but also China and Bangladesh coasts.
 
It's the typical Indian mindset. The typical scenario:
Pakistan fires (only) 1 nuclear armed missile at India, but India retaliates by firing hundreds towards Pakistan, thus India wins and Pakistan is decimated. The End.

Pakistan has become more and more powerful over the years and decades.

Since around 2015, progress and adoption of new technologies has skyrocketed and we can see other countries being left behind by a long shot.
They also think "Eat grass* but make the Bomb" means only a nuclear bomb!! In fact, "Bomb" means "military capability being constantly built in all spheres and domains to have a wider regional** impact".....

*In fact, the early Muslims in Mecca used to eat leaves during the boycott by the Mushrikin, but they (RA) didn't waiver on their resolve. Today, the Ram Rajya of Hindutva Bharat is the largest Mushrik power in the world.
**This is the Muslim heartland region (MENA+CA), where it all started, and it's where it'll all end as far as this Dunya is concerned.
 
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They also think "Eat grass but make the Bomb" means only a nuclear bomb!! In fact, "Bomb" means "military capability being constantly built in all spheres to have a wider regional* impact".....

*This is the region it all started, and it's where it'll all end as far as this Dunya is concerned.

The statement "we will eat grass, even go hungry, but we will have our own" by ZA Bhutto was specifically for nukes.
 
I'm more exciting about its weaponry.

YJ-18,YJ=鹰击(YING JI)Means the attack of the eagle
Specifically designed to beat the Aegis system.
Air breathing cruise at Mach 0.8 switching to rocket booster terminal attack phase at Mach 2.5-3

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Indian navy blockade I am coming

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