Why Pakistanis should be suspicious of 5 Pillars, smile to Junnah, Dilly Hussein and other online so called Muslim Influencers and media outlets

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Recently, I have been noticing that 5 Pillars, smile to Junnah, Dilly Hussein and other online so called "Muslim Influencers" and media outlets seem to have a problem with Pakistani nationalism but are okay with the nationalism and patriotism of other Muslim countries. Also, they seem to believe anti-Pakistani propaganda and give a free pass to Pakistan's enemies. An example of this is the unrelenting support of the afghan taliban by 5 Pillars, Dilly Hussein and Smile to Junnah. They both complain that Pakistan has interactions with america which is Kuffar yet say NOTHING of the afghan taliban's relations and collaboration with hindutva indians in the murder of 10s of 1000s of innocent Pakistani Muslims. They give the taliban a FREE PASS despite them having relations with the indian hindutva who want to genocide ALL Muslims and insult the beloved Prophets of Islam. Why is this?

A lot of these "Muslim Influencers", media outlets and unfortunately SOME UK Pakistanis are calling for Pakistan to launch a military assault on the israelis and to nuke them yet they NEVER make the same demand of Arab nations or ANY other Muslim nation for that matter. Why only ask Pakistan? Do these people not realise the SEVERE predicament Pakistan is in? We face a neighbour who is MORE THAN 7x bigger than us and has the FULL-BACKING of israel, europe and russia. the SAME israel that controls and runs america. Our nukes are to protect us from this threat. As much as I support the Palestinians and wish them success, if Pakistan was being genocided in he same way by the indians, would the rest of the world care and would they do ANYTHING to stop it? Would ANYONE be calling the rest of the Muslim world to mobilize and come to the rescue of Pakistan?

Don't get me wrong, 5 Pillars, smile to Junnah, Dilly Hussein and other Muslim Influencers are doing some good work in the uk in that they are trying to mobilize and organize the uk Muslim communities against our enemies like the racist far-right parties and the far-right extremists who attack our people. I realize we have to work with them against an evil, genocidal and racist extremist common enemy for the greater good. However, we need to remain wary and suspicious of them regarding their TRUE intentions.

Another annoying thing about the online Muslim dawah communities and media outlets is that they get overly excited and start behaving like chimpanzees when a white person converts to Islam. They act as if the problems of Muslim nations will now be solved because a white person has converted to Islam. I think that this is due to SEVERE racial inferiority complex and a lack of education. The ONLY thing that will solve the problems of the Muslim countries is if we start to PROPERLY follow Islam AND become pioneers in Science and Technology AS WELL as become 100% self-sufficient in the production of ALL advanced weapons systems and WMDs that can wipe out, genocide and massacre ALL our enemies in seconds. NOTHING else will solve the problems of Muslim countries.

Please discuss the points raised above.

 

[Fatman17]

Don't know if this is going to end up being a religious discussion?

@Musings

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Don't know if this is going to end up being a religious discussion?

@Musings

It's not a religious discussion. It's about online so called "Muslim influencers" , the dawah brigade and Muslim media outlets having issues with Pakistani nationalism and Pakistani interests yet NEVER afford that level of scrutiny to ANY other Muslim nation. WHY is that?

 

[Blain2]

Recently, I have been noticing that 5 Pillars, smile to Junnah, Dilly Hussein and other online so called "Muslim Influencers" and media outlets seem to have a problem with Pakistani nationalism but are okay with the nationalism and patriotism of other Muslim countries. Also, they seem to believe anti-Pakistani propaganda and give a free pass to Pakistan's enemies. An example of this is the unrelenting support of the afghan taliban by 5 Pillars, Dilly Hussein and Smile to Junnah. They both complain that Pakistan has interactions with america which is Kuffar yet say NOTHING of the afghan taliban's relations and collaboration with hindutva indians in the murder of 10s of 1000s of innocent Pakistani Muslims. They give the taliban a FREE PASS despite them having relations with the indian hindutva who want to genocide ALL Muslims and insult the beloved Prophets of Islam. Why is this?

A lot of these "Muslim Influencers", media outlets and unfortunately SOME UK Pakistanis are calling for Pakistan to launch a military assault on the israelis and to nuke them yet they NEVER make the same demand of Arab nations or ANY other Muslim nation for that matter. Why only ask Pakistan? Do these people not realise the SEVERE predicament Pakistan is in? We face a neighbour who is MORE THAN 7x bigger than us and has the FULL-BACKING of israel, europe and russia. the SAME israel that controls and runs america. Our nukes are to protect us from this threat. As much as I support the Palestinians and wish them success, if Pakistan was being genocided in he same way by the indians, would the rest of the world care and would they do ANYTHING to stop it? Would ANYONE be calling the rest of the Muslim world to mobilize and come to the rescue of Pakistan?

Don't get me wrong, 5 Pillars, smile to Junnah, Dilly Hussein and other Muslim Influencers are doing some good work in the uk in that they are trying to mobilize and organize the uk Muslim communities against our enemies like the racist far-right parties and the far-right extremists who attack our people. I realize we have to work with them against an evil, genocidal and racist extremist common enemy for the greater good. However, we need to remain wary and suspicious of them regarding their TRUE intentions.

Another annoying thing about the online Muslim dawah communities and media outlets is that they get overly excited and start behaving like chimpanzees when a white person converts to Islam. They act as if the problems of Muslim nations will now be solved because a white person has converted to Islam. I think that this is due to SEVERE racial inferiority complex and a lack of education. The ONLY thing that will solve the problems of the Muslim countries is if we start to PROPERLY follow Islam AND become pioneers in Science and Technology AS WELL as become 100% self-sufficient in the production of ALL advanced weapons systems and WMDs that can wipe out, genocide and massacre ALL our enemies in seconds. NOTHING else will solve the problems of Muslim countries.

Please discuss the points raised above.

I find a lot of the UK based "born-again Muslims" to operate in a bubble. Anyone one uses the facade of Islam (like the Taliban) become their poster-boys. They are for Pan-Islamism without having much thought about how such a thing would come to reality and very little understanding or consideration for the way the current Muslim nation-states have to conduct their affairs.

As can be imagined, if they happen to be of Pakistani origin, then they are most likely pro-PTI which means that any government that is not PTI aligned will bear the brunt of their anger and all sorts of conspiracies like "they are American lackeys, or pro-Zionists" etc. will be found in their narrative about the Pakistani state.

They happen to hold Pakisan to a much higher standard with regards to the country's obligations to Pan-Islamism but rarely do the same for deviants like the Taliban who are free to mass murder Pakistanis with not a word spoken against them by the likes of STJ, 5P and the likes.

Perhaps living overseas means that they get along with other fellow Muslims from Afghanistan etc., but what they don't realize is that these brotherly sentiments don't carry over in the affairs of nation-states. If they did, Afghan Taliban would have moved on from the Durand Line issue and would not be sending terrorists to attack Pakistan.

Last, since they align with pan-Islamism, their ideal state is Khilafat and as such they don't believe in nation-states. As a Muslim, I don't disagree with this sentiment, but there are a lot of obstacles in getting to this unified/Muslim entity.

 

[Blain2]

It's not a religious discussion. It's about online so called "Muslim influencers" , the dawah brigade and Muslim media outlets having issues with Pakistani nationalism and Pakistani interests yet NEVER afford that level of scrutiny to ANY other Muslim nation. WHY is that?

Perhaps because most of them are of Pakistani/Sub-continental origin?

 

[PakFactor]

@PAKISTANFOREVER @Blain2

I stopped listening to them over a decade ago because what they preach and their actions don't allow them to stand on their own glass floor. They urge others to live in the Muslim world, away from all the shirk, etc., but they themselves proudly travel under the passport of their Western-based nation. Never once would they dig in and sharply criticize what the regimes in the MENA and Asian nations are doing to their own nations, but rather avoid currying favor.

I truly hate that they intentionally mislead the youth. They are just as dangerous as the other adversaries the Muslim world is facing.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I find a lot of the UK based "born-again Muslims" to operate in a bubble. Anyone one uses the facade of Islam (like the Taliban) become their poster-boys. They are for Pan-Islamism without having much thought about how such a thing would come to reality and very little understanding or consideration for the way the current Muslim nation-states have to conduct their affairs.

As can be imagined, if they happen to be of Pakistani origin, then they are most likely pro-PTI which means that any government that is not PTI aligned will bear the brunt of their anger and all sorts of conspiracies like "they are American lackeys, or pro-Zionists" etc. will be found in their narrative about the Pakistani state.

They happen to hold Pakisan to a much higher standard with regards to the country's obligations to Pan-Islamism but rarely do the same for deviants like the Taliban who are free to mass murder Pakistanis with not a word spoken against them by the likes of STJ, 5P and the likes.

Perhaps living overseas means that they get along with other fellow Muslims from Afghanistan etc., but what they don't realize is that these brotherly sentiments don't carry over in the affairs of nation-states. If they did, Afghan Taliban would have moved on from the Durand Line issue and would not be sending terrorists to attack Pakistan.

Last, since they align with pan-Islamism, their ideal state is Khilafat and as such they don't believe in nation-states. As a Muslim, I don't disagree with this sentiment, but there are a lot of obstacles in getting to this unified/Muslim entity.

A lot of these uk born Pakistanis have an identity crisis which their parents by and large are to blame.

A lot of Pakistanis in the UK don't know about their racial, cultural and historical heritage as it is not taught to them by their parents. They also know that they don't fit into white english european culture and don't belong in england. Therefore there is a void that is filled in by pan-Islam which is more available, which they latch on to this non-existent notion of international Muslim brotherhood which is NEVER reciprocated by NON-Pakistani Muslims. Ask an Arab or a gulfi if a Pakistani is their "fellow Muslim brother or sister". See what the answer and reaction would be. ALL non-Pakistani Muslims put their nationalism, race, culture and heritage BEFORE any notion of "Muslim brotherhood". Have NO IDEA why Pakistanis don't.

These pan-Islam uk Pakistanis think they are intelligent but they are not. FAR from it. They overlook the afghandu taliban's massacre of innocent Pakistani Muslims and their collusion with the indian hindutva government that is the MOST Islamaphobic entity in the world. Yet claim that Pakistan is munafiq and the afgandu taliban is not. Go figure out the logic of that. The pan-Islamic uk Pakistanis are retarded enough to go and fight for isis in Syria but do the Syrians even give a damn about them or Pakistanis in general? They consider us as being lower than the dirt on the bottom of their shoes. This undignified behaviour is sickening and makes me want to vomit. It MUST be stopped.

The reason why uk pan-Islamic Pakistanis don't believe in the nation state is that they themselves know they don't belong to any country so they want everyone else to not belong to a country or believe in patriotism/nationalism. They know they don't belong in england but they know nothing about Pakistan in order to feel that they belong to Pakistan. This is a dilemma that needs to be addressed by teaching young uk Pakistanis, Pakistani culture, heritage, history and Pakistani nationalism.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

@PAKISTANFOREVER @Blain2

I stopped listening to them over a decade ago because what they preach and their actions don't allow them to stand on their own glass floor. They urge others to live in the Muslim world, away from all the shirk, etc., but they themselves proudly travel under the passport of their Western-based nation. Never once would they dig in and sharply criticize what the regimes in the MENA and Asian nations are doing to their own nations, but rather avoid currying favor.

I truly hate that they intentionally mislead the youth. They are just as dangerous as the other adversaries the Muslim world is facing.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....................................Nationalism and patriotism rules. If Pakistanis can't look after and help their own then we can't help foreigners.

We must promote Pakistan, Pakistani interests and nationalism before ALL else.

We must teach young uk Pakistanis Pakistani culture, heritage, history and our languages.

BEWARE these FAKE "Muslim influencers", media outlets and other hypocrites who seek to undermine the uk Pakistani communities.

 

[Waz]

I found Zeeshan (Smile to Jannah) to be more patriotic to be fair and is always repping Pakistan. His channel is backlisted by India and he gets waves of abusive comments by the Hindutvas.
That being said I am rather annoyed they the Taliban haven't been called out for the vermin they are, but let's be fair, many Pakistanis in the UK have the same 'heroic' image of them, though that is quickly falling by the side.
The bottom line is aside China and Turkey, Pakistan and Pakistanis have no one but themselves to rely on and support.

 

[Blain2]

A lot of these uk born Pakistanis have an identity crisis which their parents by and large are to blame.

A lot of Pakistanis in the UK don't know about their racial, cultural and historical heritage as it is not taught to them by their parents. They also know that they don't fit into white english european culture and don't belong in england. Therefore there is a void that is filled in by pan-Islam which is more available, which they latch on to this non-existent notion of international Muslim brotherhood which is NEVER reciprocated by NON-Pakistani Muslims. Ask an Arab or a gulfi if a Pakistani is their "fellow Muslim brother or sister". See what the answer and reaction would be. ALL non-Pakistani Muslims put their nationalism, race, culture and heritage BEFORE any notion of "Muslim brotherhood". Have NO IDEA why Pakistanis don't.

These pan-Islam uk Pakistanis think they are intelligent but they are not. FAR from it. They overlook the afghandu taliban's massacre of innocent Pakistani Muslims and their collusion with the indian hindutva government that is the MOST Islamaphobic entity in the world. Yet claim that Pakistan is munafiq and the afgandu taliban is not. Go figure out the logic of that. The pan-Islamic uk Pakistanis are retarded enough to go and fight for isis in Syria but do the Syrians even give a damn about them or Pakistanis in general? They consider us as being lower than the dirt on the bottom of their shoes. This undignified behaviour is sickening and makes me want to vomit. It MUST be stopped.

The reason why uk pan-Islamic Pakistanis don't believe in the nation state is that they themselves know they don't belong to any country so they want everyone else to not belong to a country or believe in patriotism/nationalism. They know they don't belong in england but they know nothing about Pakistan in order to feel that they belong to Pakistan. This is a dilemma that needs to be addressed by teaching young uk Pakistanis, Pakistani culture, heritage, history and Pakistani nationalism.

I feel anything in the extreme leads to unhealthy outcomes. Uber-nationalism leads to extreme issues and same goes for pan-Islamism sans reality. I think one has to have a nuanced understanding of why sometimes two, divergent realities exist and have to be respected. This is the case of wanting pan-Islamism while dealing with nation-states and their politics.

These divergences/differences existed in the early times of Islam and also in the times of the early khalifas (companions of the Prophet SAW). The fact that our own people martyred the grand-children of the Prophet a few years after his death goes to show how inherently common, and perhaps natural differences in ethnic, cultural, tribal make-up are.

I wish Muslims were one unified entity, but they are not and only holding Pakistan/Pakistanis accountable for Pan-Islamism is unfair. And despite this, I say that in our short history, our governments/policies have helped drive the pan-Islamic/ummah concept more than any other Muslim nation-state (perhaps except Turkey under Erdogan's leadership).

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

I feel anything in the extreme leads to unhealthy outcomes. Uber-nationalism leads to extreme issues and same goes for pan-Islamism sans reality. I think one has to have a nuanced understanding of why sometimes two, divergent realities exist and have to be respected. This is the case of wanting pan-Islamism while dealing with nation-states and their politics.

These divergences/differences existed in the early times of Islam and also in the times of the early khalifas (companions of the Prophet SAW). The fact that our own people martyred the grand-children of the Prophet a few years after his death goes to show how inherently common, and perhaps natural differences in ethnic, cultural, tribal make-up are.

I wish Muslims were one unified entity, but they are not and only holding Pakistan/Pakistanis accountable for Pan-Islamism is unfair.

Pan-Islam does not really work. Nationalism and patriotism does. When a white or a black person converts to Islam, I don't see them as a fellow "brother" or a "sister" in Islam. I feel 0 connection to them. I still see them the same way as I see non-Muslim blacks and whites. They are NOT a part of my community nor am I a part of their community. Nor can it EVER be. They are still foreigners to me.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The level of deception and cunningness these Taliban are showing is reminiscent of what the Hindutva and Zionists usually show. These bastards need to be taken out ASAP. A hundred years back, the Zionists were successful against the Ottomans by deceiving the Muslims all across the ranks. But, the geo-strategic conditions take a 180 degrees shift every 100 years by HIS PERMISSION.....

They may deceive 99% of the Muslims, but not this Fakir for I have learnt an infinitesimal portion of the Marifet (like drawing a spoon of water from the Pacific ocean), sitting at the feet of the Ulema in Istanbul, to approach Hakikat with Hikmet...

 

[PakFactor]

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.....................................Nationalism and patriotism rules. If Pakistanis can't look after and help their own then we can't help foreigners.

We must promote Pakistan, Pakistani interests and nationalism before ALL else.

We must teach young uk Pakistanis Pakistani culture, heritage, history and our languages.

BEWARE these FAKE "Muslim influencers", media outlets and other hypocrites who seek to undermine the uk Pakistani communities.

The problem you mentioned is well-known to overseas Pakistanis. From my own experience, though I was born in Pakistan and migrated to the U.S. at a very early age, living in the States and seeing how the system here operates and treats an individual's agency, and then looking at Pakistan, you do not feel the same. Rather, you see how those born and living there are treated, which leads one to put off having the relationship.

Then comes the core problem I spoke about: in order to have nationalism, you have to define what a Pakistani is; the state machinery and political parties have utterly failed to establish a unified identity. The culture is toxic and backward at best, with no moderation. The heritage is stitched together and held by force.

Hence, I've been a proponent of a social contract that establishes certain unalienable rights to reinforce the bond of the nation-state and, in turn, nationalism. This illness has not just been in Pakistan, but elsewhere in the Islamic world. Why would someone give it their all for Pakistan, which doesn't reciprocate it back?

Those YouTubers are exploiting that relationship gap and monetizing it.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

The problem you mentioned is well-known to overseas Pakistanis. From my own experience, though I was born in Pakistan and migrated to the U.S. at a very early age, living in the States and seeing how the system here operates and treats an individual's agency, and then looking at Pakistan, you do not feel the same. Rather, you see how those born and living there are treated, which leads one to put off having the relationship.

Then comes the core problem I spoke about: in order to have nationalism, you have to define what a Pakistani is; the state machinery and political parties have utterly failed to establish a unified identity. The culture is toxic and backward at best, with no moderation. The heritage is stitched together and held by force.

Hence, I've been a proponent of a social contract that establishes certain unalienable rights to reinforce the bond of the nation-state and, in turn, nationalism. This illness has not just been in Pakistan, but elsewhere in the Islamic world. Why would someone give it their all for Pakistan, which doesn't reciprocate it back?

Those YouTubers are exploiting that relationship gap and monetizing it.

You should give your ALL to your race, your people and those that belong to Pakistan.

At the VERY LEAST, Pakistani parents of young uk Pakistanis should teach their children about the Pakistani race, culture, heritage, language and our ancient Indus Valley Civilisation heritage in order to enable the TRUE identity of our young people and invoke the feeling of belonging, nationalism and patriotism.

 

[PakFactor]

You should give your ALL to your race, your people and those that belong to Pakistan.

At the VERY LEAST, Pakistani parents of young uk Pakistanis should teach their children about the Pakistani race, culture, heritage, language and our ancient Indus Valley Civilisation heritage in order to enable the TRUE identity of our young people and invoke the feeling of belonging, nationalism and patriotism.

It's easier said than done. What would Pakistan give back? That is the core question. At least in the United States, you give it your all, and it reciprocates by defending your rights, and leadership established core principles of American nationalism. I do not see it in Pakistan.

When you have to reach far back into the IVC, you're trying to find some link to a extinct civilization with an undeciphered script. Using it to bridge the gap between a Punjabi and a Balochi today is difficult because there is no continuous linguistic or political thread connecting the two. That itself is a flaw, as the region and state haven't been able to redefine nationalism over the decades. As someone from Punjab, I couldn't care less for a Sindhi and his weird fetish wearing those skull cap politics, or someone from Balochistan. The language and culture are split along many fault lines, and when it comes to heritage, even more so.

What's missing is a shared story that people believe in, and a government that makes believing in that story worth their while. What you're proposing is a idealist proposition, but it conflicts with a realist position.

If you wanted to establish nationalism and an identity for Pakistan, it should have started from 1948 and progressed from there, as those who yearned for religious and political freedom fought and created Pakistan. It would have at least helped create the canvas we would have later drawn upon and made a wholly new identity. Then you wouldn't have IVC and others finding common identity by searching for hundreds of fathers, in Arabs, Turks, Afghans, and other races. At best, these can be described as orphaned attempts. If the state had focused on the 1947 narrative—a new nation for a specific people with a specific political goal—it wouldn't need to "adopt" ancestors from other regions or extinct civilizations.