Is Pakistan rising as a middle power?

[nahtanbob]

Pakistan has nuclear weapons, but before last year’s aerial combat, who would have cared about Pakistan?
Even after that air battle, at China’s military parade, the people standing around Xi Jinping were Putin and Kim Jong-un.
Xi Jinping, Putin, and Trump say they are good friends with kim. When they meet Kim Jong-un, they give him a warm embrace. But would they do the same when meeting the president of Pakistan?
North Korea’s respect is real and hard-earned, won through heroic fighting on the battlefield. If Israel and North Korea fought on neutral ground, North Korea could beat the shit out of Israel.

On neutral ground, Israel numerically inferior army would beat North Korean army thanks to Israeli air force

 

[ety]

North Korea only does so when it needs to exert political pressure externally.

The North Korean government is actually very smart. You can compare the North Korean government and the Iranian government, both countries are providing aid to Russia, but the results are completely different.

North Korea and Iran both gave Russia military aid, so what did they each get from Russia?

North Korea:
1, received technical assistance, satellite technology, missile technology, shipbuilding technology, drone technology have significantly improved;
2, thousands of containers of last century's nearly obsolete artillery shells, exchanged for foreign currency (Western media estimates that at least 20 billion euros sold).
3, the United Nations military sanctions against North Korea in name only. The sanctions have not affected North Korea's military trade with the permanent members, and then will not do so again in the future.
4, North Korea and Russia have formalized their military alliance. Add to that the defense treaty that North Korea and China signed in 1962. It now has the covenant of two military powers.

And what about Iran?
Sold some drones, which led to additional EU and US sanctions. And then what? No more then, nothing. Iran got scared and backed down from selling. So Iran got nothing but more sanctions.

North Korea also send ten thousand troops to fight in the Ukraine on Russia's side, commitment level is different.

 

[royalharris]

On neutral ground, Israel numerically inferior army would beat North Korean army thanks to Israeli air force

It seems that Middle Eastern countries have truly been beaten into fear by Israel.
Israel has air force equipment supplied by the United States; couldn’t North Korea also have air force equipment supplied by China?

North Korea’s air force is not strong today because North Korea has no need to develop its air force. South Korea’s air force is effectively centered on the U.S. Air Force, while North Korea’s air protection is, in effect, provided by China.

The combat skills, fighting spirit displayed by North Korean soldiers on the battlefield in Ukraine far surpass those of the Israeli military.

North Korea could beat Israel so badly that they would run home crying and beg Jesus to save them.

 

[MH.Yang]

On neutral ground, Israel numerically inferior army would beat North Korean army thanks to Israeli air force

The combat skills, training, courage, and morale of the North Korean army and the Israeli army are similar.

The advantage of the North Korean army is its large number, but the disadvantage is its poor equipment.

The advantage of the Israeli army is that it is well-equipped, but the disadvantage is that it is relatively small in number.

But with China's industrial scale, it only takes a few months to fully equip the North Korean military.

How long will it take for the United States to resolve the issue of the number of Israeli troops?

 

[Ak01]

The combat skills, training, courage, and morale of the North Korean army and the Israeli army are similar.

The advantage of the North Korean army is its large number, but the disadvantage is its poor equipment.

The advantage of the Israeli army is that it is well-equipped, but the disadvantage is that it is relatively small in number.

But with China's industrial scale, it only takes a few months to fully equip the North Korean military.

How long will it take for the United States to resolve the issue of the number of Israeli troops?

since when has equiptment itself turned tides?

arabs would be ruling half the world again if flashy equipment was the key.

 

[MH.Yang]

since when has equiptment itself turned tides?

arabs would be ruling half the world again if flashy equipment was the key.

In a real war between major powers, the quantity of ammunition is the key factor. North Korea's stockpiles of missiles and artillery shells are far higher tan Israel's, and even exceed the combined total of Israel and the United States. Of course, Israel's advantage is its ability to receive resupply from other countries. But North Korea the support of the world's top industrial power and the top resource power behind it.

 

[Ak01]

In a real war between major powers, the quantity of ammunition is the key factor. North Korea's stockpiles of missiles and artillery shells are far higher tan Israel's, and even exceed the combined total of Israel and the United States. Of course, Israel's advantage is its ability to receive resupply from other countries. But North Korea the support of the world's top industrial power and the top resource power behind it.

sure, but if you're a monkey who does not know how to use its resupply, its as good as nothing.

 

[ety]

since when has equiptment itself turned tides?

arabs would be ruling half the world again if flashy equipment was the key.

A American military strategist once said the famous formula:

Fighting power of an army = The will of the army to fight times(X) The power of the weapons of the army.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

In this sense and logic - Israel is also a middle power.

 

[Nimble]

Pakistan is a regional power for sure.... this region include south asla, central asia and middle east.... with nuclear weapons and it's delivery systems, powerful airforce, large army and powerful navy there's no doubt about it....

 

[r3alist]

A middle power is a kind of abstract idea generally just defined by not being on the security council but also either having some particular resources, size or population, every country has its own context

Even within the middle power grouping you can have significant discrepancies, let's compare Turkey and India, where Turkey is a solid second world country, a popular tourist destination, plenty of regional influence and reach, innovative and advanced military that makes its presence known in the region. There is a qualitative difference in the confidence the Turkish nation has which starkly contrasts to India on all these metrics, yet India vastly greater in its factor endowment


So It's a very Indian coded way of looking at the world in terms of rankings but somehow missing the bigger picture in other places.

 

[r3alist]

sure, but if you're a monkey who does not know how to use its resupply, its as good as nothing.

We assume that the military purchases allowed independent use, in reality they seemed more like incentives to keep America on side.

However you both raise a good point about having resources versus having the propensity and self-confidence and ambitions to use them, this is a qualitative aspect of being a power of any kind.

For example India is suffering because it had a decade to work with America to take on China more directly, but they do not have the heart for it. Nations like Pakistan and Turkey have clearly demonstrated the natural instinct to take on bigger ambitions and more risk, you would think India is the Maldives or Luxembourg or something like that.

 

[Ak01]

In this sense and logic - Israel is also a middle power.

it is, i dont think anyone has ever denied this.

 

[That_Guy]

The combat effectiveness of a military force is determined by only two factors: first, military quality and fighting spirit; second, military equipment. The quality and fighting spirit of the North Korean military are world-class.

No, no, and no.

You'd only read something like this in a Japanese light novel.

in reality, military force is determined by a lot of factors, the biggest one being logistics.

We saw how the DPRK performed in Ukraine, and they got demolished.

If North Korea and Israel went to war, Israel would have the support of American military equipment, but North Korea could likewise receive support from Chinese and Russian military equipment.

1V1, Israel would demolish the DPRK.

With support, Israel would still demolish the DPRK.

North Korea would turn Israel’s life into a nightmare.It could drive Israel into the sea and feed it to the fish.

It would not.

Your comment is either a joke, a troll, or you're comment is simply stupid.

The DPRK does not have the resources to win a war, if they did, they'd have taken the peninsula they currently live in. Now is currently the best time, since Trump would not interfere, and the South no longer has many patriot systems left.

But they don't, because RoK, which is nearly on par with Israel, would demolish the DPRK as well.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Yes Pakistan have emerged as middle power, it was always destined to be one. But it needed to beat India in a war to be taken seriously as a hard power. Thanks to Sindoor we got exactly that.