Tang dynasty battles with the caliphate

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This is one of the most critical chains of events in world history

The adoption of Islam by the Turks following the Battle of Talas fundamentally shifted the geopolitical center of gravity. It transformed Islam into a global force that pushed deep into Anatolia (modern Turkiye) and the Balkans

The Great Seljuk Empire and The Ottoman Empire
The Turkish Islamic Armies that Christian Europe fought against for almost 1000 years.

For nearly 1,000 years, the Seljuk and Ottoman Empires stood as the primary geopolitical and military counterweights to Christian Europe

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From the 10th century onwards, the Turks became both the military protectors and the new leaders of the Islamic world, which was weakening and experiencing internal conflicts.
 
@_Arabia_

I think the Sultanates in South East Asia is not built by Arab families, but rather their offspring mixed with the Arab traders families living in Indonesia that I believe are considered as high rank group due to their wealth (from trading), connection to the Middle East, and also as Islam becomes popular and embraced by Maritime South East Asians (including Indonesians)

Like for example the Malaccan rulers in Malaysia originated from Palembang royal of Palembang (Sumatra of Indonesia)

In Java, there is Mataram Kingdom and Mataram Sultanate (Mataram Islam) as well, so the same royal family that rule Java since ancient time when they were still Hindus or Buddist, but through centuries they become Muslim and change the name into Sultanate

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Similarly, the rulers of Malacca, though of prestigious Palembang origin, had accepted Islam precisely in order to attract Muslim and Javanese traders to their port. This profitable network of communication with the Muslim world of Asia, combined with Islam’s assertion of the equality of all believers, helped propel such areas from the fringe of Shaivite-Mahayana culture toward positions of influence within the Indonesian archipelago.

www.britannica.com

Indonesia - Islamic, Culture, Traditions | Britannica

Indonesia - Islamic, Culture, Traditions: Foreign Muslims had traded in Indonesia and China for many centuries; a Muslim tombstone in eastern Java bears a date corresponding to 1082. However, substantial evidence of Islam in Indonesia exists only from the end of the 13th century, in northern...
www.britannica.com www.britannica.com
 
Last edited:
MMM-E said:
Turks actively fought in the Battle of Talas and ultimately decided its outcome. In this historic clash in 751 AD, the Karluk Turks joined forces with the Abbasid Caliphate to defeat the Chinese Tang Dynasty

it was Turkic dynasties that established long-term Empires
The Turks were responsible for the massive, institutional and widespread expansion of Islam across India, Pakistan and Bangladesh


The Battle of Talas shattered China's political and military influence in Central Asia for a full 1.000 years.
Click to expand...

The Gokturk Empire was destroyed by the Tang Dynasty.

And it was normal that many Turks wanted to retaliate against the ruler of the Tang Dynasty.

First Turkic Khaganate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
If the Karluk Turks had stood by China (the Tang Dynasty) instead of change sides , China would have won a decisive victory at the Battle of Talas.

This shift would have fundamentally altered the geopolitical landscape of Asia and the Middle East, rewriting global history

Instead of Islam, Turkish tribes would have largely adopted Buddhism, Confucianism, or Taoism due to deep Chinese cultural hegemony

And Islam might not exist at all in the regions of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh today.
even Anatolia and Balkans
 
Indos said:
@_Arabia_

I think the Sultanates in South East Asia is not built by Arab families, but rather their offspring mixed with the Arab traders that I believe are considered as high rank group due to their wealth (from trading), connection to the Middle East, and also as Islam is embraced by Maritime South East Asians.
Click to expand...
Of course the Arab founders of those dynasties intermarried with locals. Like everywhere else where Arabs were/went (practically everywhere in the world - Africa, Europe, Asia, South/Latin America (40 million people of Arab origin in Latin America alone), North America, South Asia, Central Asia, South East Asia, East Asia (China), Caucasus, Muslim world etc.

But the spread of Islam in South East Asia (and initially in South Asia and everywhere else for that matter) was mostly the work of Arabs - merchants/traders, military conquerors (dynasties), Sufis etc.

It is not a coincidence that the Shafi'i maddhab is the most followed in all the maritime regions of Africa, South Asia and South East Asia where Arab presence (ancient and Islamic) was large.

You can go from East Africa (Swahili - an Arabic word now the most spoken language of East Africa and almost half of it has Arabic vocabulary) to South East Asia and it is all mostly Shafi'i.


en.wikipedia.org

Swahili - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

There are Arab communities in all of those regions (earliest Muslim communities).

From East Africa, South India/Sri Lanka (Sri Lankan Moors) to South East Asia (Malaysia, Indonesia, South Philippines, Brunei) etc.
 
SteppeWolff said:
Not true. The process had started much earlier
Click to expand...

While Arab traders and generals brought Islam first, but it was Turkic dynasties that established long-term Empires to speared Islam in India , Pakistan and Bangladesh

If it weren't for the Turks, the few Muslims that remained would have been wiped out by the Hindus over the centuries.
 
MMM-E said:
If the Karluk Turks had stood by China (the Tang Dynasty) instead of change sides , China would have won a decisive victory at the Battle of Talas.

This shift would have fundamentally altered the geopolitical landscape of Asia and the Middle East, rewriting global history

Instead of Islam, Turkish tribes would have largely adopted Buddhism, Confucianism, or Taoism due to deep Chinese cultural hegemony

And Islam might not exist at all in the regions of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh today.
even Anatolia and Balkans
Click to expand...
Arabs already spread Islam to those regions centuries before Seljuks and almost 800 years before Ottomans.

Much of Anatolia itself (Southern and East) was ruled by Arab Muslim caliphates for centuries and the Turkish Arab community predates the Turkic migration to Anatolia by at least 1500 years.

Arabs in Turkey - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

This famous ancient kingdom in Anatolia was ruled by Arabs over 2000 + years ago.

en.wikipedia.org

Osroene - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

PAKISTAN (Sindh and Southern Punjab) was deeply ingrained with Islam due to original Arab rule and presence many centuries before. As were large parts of South India.

It was under the Mughals (Mongol in origin) that Islam was consolidated.

Islam in Central Asia was also spread by Arabs first (Arab Caliphate rule - directly) and Arab settlement and afterwards others as well.

Only region that I can think of where Arabs did not spread Islam to before was Bosnia/Albania/Serbia/West Balkans which was done by the Ottoman dynasty but that is a small/tiny area.
 
MMM-E said:
If the Karluk Turks had stood by China (the Tang Dynasty) instead of change sides , China would have won a decisive victory at the Battle of Talas.

This shift would have fundamentally altered the geopolitical landscape of Asia and the Middle East, rewriting global history

Instead of Islam, Turkish tribes would have largely adopted Buddhism, Confucianism, or Taoism due to deep Chinese cultural hegemony

And Islam might not exist at all in the regions of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh today.
even Anatolia and Balkans
Click to expand...

Yup, Turkish tribe that later embrace Islam is also the one that protect Islamic World in Middle East from Mongolian (their cousins) right

Turkish is also very much tend to Sufistic Islam (Esoteric Islam) during Ottoman
 
ChineseTiger1986 said:
They are very aligned with the white/jewish liberal ideology, and hope the Han Chinese to keep getting depopulated.

Also keep bashing the Ming Dynasty and other Dynasties founded by the Han Chinese, and continue to overhype their prestige Qing Dynasty.

BTW, these savages were not even descended from the Jurgens of the Jin Dynasty, but a group of Buryats from Siberia who were taken in refugees by the Ming Emperor Yongle, but the Ming Dynasty was simply digging their own grave.
Click to expand...
So did the Han, Jin and Tang dynasties dug their groves by importing large number of Hu(胡人) into China that led to devastating rebellions later that destroyed the dynasties.
 
MMM-E said:
While Arab traders and generals brought Islam first, but it was Turkic dynasties that established long-term Empires to speared Islam in India , Pakistan and Bangladesh

If it weren't for the Turks, the few Muslims that remained would have been wiped out by the Hindus over the centuries.
Click to expand...
Completely wrong. Turkic Sultans were allying with Hindus, alot of Hindus being top generals and administrators. Point being, it wasn't Muslim vs Hindu.

Also, mass conversions to Islam happened via Sufi orders, not swords.
 
_Arabia_ said:
Speaking of China. This Chinese lady who lives in KSA makes some very good content and is getting bigger and bigger online.

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Meet Falafel in Hotpot, the content creator bridging Saudi and Chinese cultures through social media​



Today Arab world and China have excellent relations and even interracial marriages occur.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
Click to expand...


Because both society hold the harmonious conservative values which not being aligned with the western liberal values.

Don't get me wrong, the western conservatives are also a sect of the western liberals but with different manifesto.
 
_Arabia_ said:
Arabs already spread Islam to those regions centuries before Seljuks and almost 800 years before Ottomans.

Anatolia itself was ruled by Arab Muslim caliphates for centuries and the Turkish Arab community predates the Turkic migration to Anatolia by at least 1500 years.
Click to expand...

If it weren't for the Turks, the Crusaders and Mongols would have come crush your Arabs, what kind of fairy tales are you telling ?

When the Turks entered Anatolia en masse in the 11th century (after the Battle of Malazgirt in 1071), there was almost no Muslim population in the Anatolia

Before the arrival of the Turks, Anatolia was entirely under the rule of the Christian Byzantine Empire

The Turks also Islamized the Balkans
 
Let us keep it simple.

Islam first reached Central Asia through direct Arab military conquest and subsequent rule. Afterwards Arab merchants, traders, Sufis/other missionaries established themselves and Islam became (slowly but steadily) the main religion of the elites (local) and afterwards ordinary peoples.

Same story and process in South Asia.

Turkic peoples became Muslim due to Arab rule initially and afterwards Turkic soldiers (Mamluks) being taken to the Middle East/Arab world.

Muslim heartlands in Central Asia (Bukhara, Samarkand) and South Asia (modern-day Sindh) were Muslim centuries before any Mongols, Mughals etc.

Same story with Anatolia. Much of South Anatolia and East Anatolia was Muslim long before Ottomans or Seljuks as well.

Turkic nomads/peoples helped consolidate Islam in Central Asia after adopting Islam. Later non-Muslim Mongols (back then fierce enemies of Turkic and other Muslim locals) themselves adopted Islam in their majority.
 
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