Operation Ghazab Lil Haq (Pakistan - Afghanistan War)

[reader2026]

Why not address grievances because otherwise you can keep the sliver of land between attock and sialkot to live in and rename it to Punjabia.

Addressing issues is a good concept but these guys are not rational or reasonable. You can't negotiate with such types. Also, I refer only to ex-FATA 'types', not the regular Pashtuns.

 

[Oscar]

maturity is when one realizes that the US was absolutely right in fking these talibs up hell and back and left when they were bored

Maturity is realizing that yes the US could have pretty much erased the Afghan gene pool it has international laws and domestic perceptions to consider.

Similarly it is very easy to ask for a LGB on a village compound in KP and be done with it except it creates more enemies to those who hear it.

It’s much more difficult to send in a unit to go door to door to clear it out - and do their best to avoid civilian casualties which regardless of the common perception loaded with blind hate - many US military leaders tried their best to do given the circumstances that even their own Afghan advisors were mostly content to ask them to level villages.

Pakistan does not have that disconnect like the US does because its within country. More importantly military objectives require political work which has never been forthcoming and that leads to more frustrated responses by military leaders.

Then the assumption is that every actor in the civilian side or perhaps in semi-official status only works for Pakistan when all those making tall claims are happy to sell themselves out for dollars on the spot regardless of making impassioned vlogs on their love for Pakistan… ala Adil Raja.

Unless you can align all elements of the system and actually be able to weight them in the grains they sprout from - all that will happen is that mob chasms will continue to form until you do break up into smaller more manageable uniform units.

 

[Oscar]

Addressing issues is a good concept but these guys are not rational or reasonable. You can't negotiate with such types. Also, I refer only to ex-FATA 'types', not the regular Pashtuns.

What is a regular Pashtun?
Do they have some physical features to immediately define them?

I am assuming you could using your regular rationalism and apply it to those pedophiles and horrifying content recorders from Kasur and other parts of Punjab.
Is there a way to distinguish a punjabi who recorded a fetus being crushed in a blender for some guy who paid for it vs someone who didn’t?

 

[reader2026]

It is disingenuous to pretend the people of FATA are not the core of this anti state movement. Don't try whataboutism.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

We needed an Ayub Khan.... His Economic Policies were so good in fact that we used to LOAN money to West Germany and the SOUTH KOREANS came to study our economic policy which then went on to become blueprint on how to take an agrarian country to wealthy nation

We lack those type of leaders today and i habve many criticisms of ayub. but he was by far the best economic leader we had.

The Fundamental Lack in THe Nation today is:
1. Absolute Refusal of Land Reform
2. Elites who are redirecting their capital from creating factories into real estate and properties
3. Hollowed out Bureaucracy
4. Unserious Domestic Security Policy

Some Prestige Military Victories against the Hindu Nationalists ndwill make us forget this though

same Ayub Khan, who single handedly conquered our railways and transport?

broken the back of transport so badly, it is struggling to stand on its feet

same Ayub khan who handed over gov. to Yahya Khan, who was a descendent of Mir Jaffar?

so on........ you are deluded and biased, sorry

 

[Oscar]

Maturity is realizing Musharraf was right.

What was he right about?

Other than fait accompli because the Taliban are pretty much stubborn goats like most Afghans and would not hand over OBL?
Or was it doing the entire bounty thing on people who less than 6 months prior you were inviting to PC Bhurban for Dumpukht?
Or was it letting an operation against a terror factory you had in Islamabad be televised with stories upon stories because your troops refused to listen after these terrorists killed the SSG commander because animals are animals?

 

[Oscar]

It is disingenuous to pretend the people of FATA are not the core of this anti state movement. Don't try whataboutism.

It was Bengalis earlier, then Balochis, then Mohajirs and now FATA.
Everyone is the core of this anti state movement.

At a certain point who is driving on the wrong side of the road?

 

[Optical216]

same Ayub Khan, who single handedly conquered our railways and transport?

broken the back of transport so badly, it is struggling to stand on its feet

same Ayub khan who handed over gov. to Yahya Khan, who was a descendent of Mir Jaffar?

so on........ you are deluded and biased, sorry

Same Ayub Khan where our Economy Grew by 6%
Same Ayub Khan which the world called Pakistan a beacon economic model for south asia
Same Ayub Khan where GDP Per Capita of pakistan was double india's


I do not like Ayub Khan as a person but he was a very good Economic Leader

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Same Ayub Khan where our Economy Grew by 6%
Same Ayub Khan which the world called Pakistan a beacon economic model for south asia
Same Ayub Khan where GDP Per Capita of pakistan was double india's


I do not like Ayub Khan as a person but he was a very good Economic Leader

Im FRM

i know quite a bit about economics

I will drop this this conv. here, if I were you

 

[Oscar]

Same Ayub Khan where our Economy Grew by 6%
Same Ayub Khan which the world called Pakistan a beacon economic model for south asia
Same Ayub Khan where GDP Per Capita of pakistan was double india's


I do not like Ayub Khan as a person but he was a very good Economic Leader

What factors led to that?
Was it just Ayub’s midas touch?

or was 6-7% was concentrated in the west with 22 families heavily supported by foreign aid and state directed credit & licensing.

A country can grow and yet promote inequality.

Similarly you can have Afghan promoting terror and ethnic divide while simultaneously having your own state failures and elitist mismanagement.

 

[PakFactor]

Same Ayub Khan where our Economy Grew by 6%
Same Ayub Khan which the world called Pakistan a beacon economic model for south asia
Same Ayub Khan where GDP Per Capita of pakistan was double india's


I do not like Ayub Khan as a person but he was a very good Economic Leader

Im FRM

i know quite a bit about economics

I will drop this this conv. here, if I were you

Only if you studied how Ayub Khan economy worked or was engineered to work.

Ayub Khan’s economic boom during the 1960s was driven in large part by substantial foreign assistance and external financing from the Americans and World Bank courtesy of Cold War politics, complemented by domestic investment, state-directed credit allocation, protectionist policies, and rapid private-sector industrialization. While these policies generated impressive rates of economic growth and accelerated industrial development, the gains were distributed unevenly. Economic ownership and wealth became increasingly concentrated among a relatively small group of industrial and financial elites; as few would know, among those 22 prominent families, they controlled different ministries and were awarded permits and various authorizations to do business, in a way that prevented new entrants from coming into the market and growing.

Another aspect you can look at is that Ayub & today's PML-N heavily used external capital and financing to subsidize imports that helped relax the balance-of-payments constraints; this allowed the importation of capital goods (equipment & machinery, etc.). In the end, the results faltered; it took the 1965 Indo-Pak War to show how the industrial momentum quickly collapsed, and that without external capital and financing, the Pakistan economic model fails.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Only if you studied how Ayub Khan economy worked or was engineered to work.

Ayub Khan’s economic boom during the 1960s was driven in large part by substantial foreign assistance and external financing from the Americans and World Bank courtesy of Cold War politics, complemented by domestic investment, state-directed credit allocation, protectionist policies, and rapid private-sector industrialization. While these policies generated impressive rates of economic growth and accelerated industrial development, the gains were distributed unevenly. Economic ownership and wealth became increasingly concentrated among a relatively small group of industrial and financial elites; as few would know, among those 22 prominent families, they controlled different ministries and were awarded permits and various authorizations to do business, in a way that prevented new entrants from coming into the market and growing.

Another aspect you can look at is that Ayub & today's PML-N heavily used external capital and financing to subsidize imports that helped relax the balance-of-payments constraints; this allowed the importation of capital goods (equipment & machinery, etc.). In the end, the results faltered; it took the 1965 Indo-Pak War to show how the industrial momentum quickly collapsed, and that without external capital and financing, the Pakistan economic model fails.

on the face of it, economy did well.

thats only paper performance.

during that time, many countries were coming out of colonial rule, that pumped up our numbers, for a time.

export powerhouses like Vietnam, Japan, China were not functioning.

thats the truth

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Only if you studied how Ayub Khan economy worked or was engineered to work.

Ayub Khan’s economic boom during the 1960s was driven in large part by substantial foreign assistance and external financing from the Americans and World Bank courtesy of Cold War politics, complemented by domestic investment, state-directed credit allocation, protectionist policies, and rapid private-sector industrialization. While these policies generated impressive rates of economic growth and accelerated industrial development, the gains were distributed unevenly. Economic ownership and wealth became increasingly concentrated among a relatively small group of industrial and financial elites; as few would know, among those 22 prominent families, they controlled different ministries and were awarded permits and various authorizations to do business, in a way that prevented new entrants from coming into the market and growing.

Another aspect you can look at is that Ayub & today's PML-N heavily used external capital and financing to subsidize imports that helped relax the balance-of-payments constraints; this allowed the importation of capital goods (equipment & machinery, etc.). In the end, the results faltered; it took the 1965 Indo-Pak War to show how the industrial momentum quickly collapsed, and that without external capital and financing, the Pakistan economic model fails.

This is stupid logic which many Pakistanis present against Ayub Khan. Look at India, its dominated by like 3 Gujarati industrialist families. Imagine that in country of 1.5 billion and 35 states, its fucking 3 gujus who dominate its industry.

What we got post Ayub Khan? The political elite class who instead of industrialization shifted to cement, sugar, real estate, fertilizers etc all subsidies went to these sectors. The export led growth halted, industrialization crippled as capital was moved elsewhere.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

This is stupid logic which many Pakistanis present against Ayub Khan. Look at India, its dominated by like 3 Gujarati industrialist families. Imagine that in country of 1.5 billion and 35 states, its fucking 3 gujus who dominate its industry.

What we got post Ayub Khan? The political elite class who instead of industrialization shifted to cement, sugar, real estate, fertilizers etc all subsidies went to these sectors. The export led growth halted, industrialization crippled as capital was moved elsewhere.

Indian tycoon business families, were part of Gandhi and political setup which struggled for India.

can you say the same such so called, loaded Pak. families?

did any of these give Mr. Jinnah, a blank cheque?

who was it who gave Mr. Jinnah a blank cheque?

dont be shy, please enlighten us, please write an argument worthy of intelletcual discussion and honesty

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Indian tycoon business families, were part of Gandhi and political setup which struggled for India.

can you say the same such so called, loaded Pak. families?

did any of these give Mr. Jinnah, a blank cheque?

who was it who gave Mr. Jinnah a blank cheque?

dont be shy, please enlighten us, please write an argument worthy of intelletcual discussion and honesty

You mean Tata, Adani and Ambani strugled for India?

Tell me which is better for Pakistan.

Zardari/Sharif/tareen/fouji foundation, malik riaz etc types cement, sugar, fertilizer, real estate.

Or industrialists who may have taken Pakistan towards much better position then today by investing in export oriented industries, localization of manufacturing etc as it was happening in 1960's.

Even today all your industrialists are begging for cheap gas and electricity. Govt instead give subsidies to homes but not industries for political reasons. Meanwhile corrupt political elite mustly own sugar mills.