Trump talks to Putin, then announces diesel deal with Russia, in sharp reversal of US policy

[UKBengali]

Quite the contrary, I would take the F-22 in almost any battle scenario over the j20.

Aside from that though, Isn't it amazing that the f22 raptor first took flight in 1997? I mean think about it it's 2026

Well when downgraded PAF J-10CEs went head to head against latest version Rafale F-4s they swotted them down with ease back in May 2025.

This is the best that China has and it is a decade newer fighter design over F-22.

 

[KAL-EL]

The first strategy was bombing Russia refineries but it didn't work out , now they have brought out the carrot strategy but Russia doesn't need america market. India and China are enough

From what I understand, there is very little trade between the US and Russia to begin with. Not like the US desperately needs trade with Russia.

Trump's latest move with this announcement is just simply to look like he's doing something before our elections

 

[KingQamaR]

The first strategy was bombing Russia refineries but it didn't work out , now they have brought out the carrot strategy but Russia doesn't need america market. India and China are enough

It is desperation at its finest from the US. Let’s see if dangling carrot of lifting the sanctions tempts Putin? Technically means it will stop kiev blowing up Russian oil sites.

 

[j_hungary]

By most military analysts . The Chinese J20 is superior to the Raptor F-22.

The question should not be whether or not J-20 is superior to the Raptor. The question you should ask is battlefield survivability. And that does not just involve F-22 and J-20; you also need to factor in a whole range of support weaponry and service support element.

Take Operation Absolute Resolve, for example (Where the US flew in Venezuela and captured Maduro). Single-up, I don't think that's replicable for any country, including China, to replicate, because you do not just fly in F-22 or whatever alone and think that would be enough, even if you have a state-of-the-art fighter like the J-20 or F-22 or F-35.

The problem is, when a J-20 meets an F-22 in hostile skies, it won't just be a 1-on-1 fight; you will have a series of support elements behind the F-22, things like EC-130, EA-18G, E-767/E-7 Wedgetail, and so on. The question you should ask is: can PLAAF come up with a combo to defeat all these

 

[KAL-EL]

The question should not be whether or not J-20 is superior to the Raptor. The question you should ask is battlefield survivability. And that does not just involve F-22 and J-20; you also need to factor in a whole range of support weaponry and service support element.

Take Operation Absolute Resolve, for example (Where the US flew in Venezuela and captured Maduro). Single-up, I don't think that's replicable for any country, including China, to replicate, because you do not just fly in F-22 or whatever alone and think that would be enough, even if you have a state-of-the-art fighter like the J-20 or F-22 or F-35.

The problem is, when a J-20 meets an F-22 in hostile skies, it won't just be a 1-on-1 fight; you will have a series of support elements behind the F-22, things like EC-130, EA-18G, E-767/E-7 Wedgetail, and so on. The question you should ask is: can PLAAF come up with a combo to defeat all these

You said it a hell of a lot better than I could.

To quote you

"The problem is, when a J-20 meets an F-22 in hostile skies, it won't just be a 1-on-1 fight; you will have a series of support elements behind the F-22, things like EC-130, EA-18G, E-767/E-7 Wedgetail, and so on. The question you should ask is: can PLAAF come up with a combo to defeat all these"

 

[XXIV]

From what I understand, there is very little trade between the US and Russia to begin with. Not like the US desperately needs trade with Russia.

Trump's latest move with this announcement is just simply to look like he's doing something before our elections

USA desperately need oil price to go down and it can't happen if Russia keep supporting iran in striking tankers in strait of hormuz

 

[j_hungary]

You are right mate

Most of Ukraines target information is already coming from Europe, because USA has withdrawn several of its ELINT and AWACs aircraft from Germany and sent them back to the USA. Puts European information sharing now in a near impossible position if Kiev wants to bomb Russian oil refinery, directly bringing Europe into a head on crisis with the US.

Again, would the EU stop supporting Ukraine if it keeps bombing Russian oil infrastructure? That answer remains to be seen....

Europe is already in a crisis with the US; whether we like it or not, I will not say this is going to be a complete dissolution, but it's beyond the term of "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours." I don't think there is any love lost if EU and UK openly defy Trump.

On the other hand, the GOP is poised to lose Congress and may even lose the Senate as well; Trump can't do much to Europe, let alone Ukraine, once they lose at least Congress in mid-term.

 

[KingQamaR]

And many analysts still think the F-22 raptor is still the superior.

With j20 right behind. Also good to remember that the f22 I believe took its first flight in 1997.

I mean how long ago was that?

The honest answer mate? Who knows? They’ll probably never engage each other and until that happens we won’t know their potential.

 

[KAL-EL]

Again, would the EU stop supporting Ukraine if it keeps bombing Russian oil infrastructure? That answer remains to be seen....

Europe is already in a crisis with the US; whether we like it or not, I will not say this is going to be a complete dissolution, but it's beyond the term of "you scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours." I don't think there is any love lost if EU and UK openly defy Trump.

On the other hand, the GOP is poised to lose Congress and may even lose the Senate as well; Trump can't do much to Europe, let alone Ukraine, once they lose at least Congress in mid-term.

Good points and besides all that, Ukraine has every right to defend itself

 

[Viet]

USA desperately need oil price to go down and it can't happen if Russia keep supporting iran in striking tankers in strait of hormuz

How Russia helps Iran if Putin resells diesel from India to the US and Trump uses that diesel to give to US warships that blockade Iran to death?
There is a flaw in your logic.
The fact is the US is the largest fuel exporter. The US really doesn’t need fuel from anyone. Trump wants to make a propaganda stunt. Putin wants to keep down oil rival Iran. That’s it.

 

[j_hungary]

You said it a hell of a lot better than I could.

To quote you

"The problem is, when a J-20 meets an F-22 in hostile skies, it won't just be a 1-on-1 fight; you will have a series of support elements behind the F-22, things like EC-130, EA-18G, E-767/E-7 Wedgetail, and so on. The question you should ask is: can PLAAF come up with a combo to defeat all these"

I have no issue if people say to me J-20 is better than whatever we had; first of all, until the 2 meet in hostile skies, we don't know for sure. I mean if we look at the Ukrainian war, I have said it time and again: just because Trump refused to send Zelenskyy the best gadget, it does not mean they are going to collapse. Fighting a war is not a simple matter; it's a combination of stuff. If you think my fighter is better than yours, then you will automatically win a war with me, well......

Equipment is only half of the equation; how you deploy them, as well as what you use with them, is the other half........

 

[KAL-EL]

How Russia helps Iran if Putin resells diesel from India to the US and Trump uses that diesel to give to US warships that blockade Iran to death?
There is a flaw in your logic.
The fact is the US is the largest fuel exporter. Trump really doesn’t need fuel from anyone. Trump wants to make a propaganda stunt. Putin wants to keep down oil rival Iran. That’s it.

That's exactly what it is. A propaganda stunt. He wants to look like he's doing something.

 

[XXIV]

How Russia helps Iran if Putin resells diesel from India to the US and Trump uses that diesel to give to US warships that blockade Iran to death?

There is a flaw in your logic.

Russia doesn't care who buy the oil they just want higher oil price to fund their economy and the war. They don't care if zelensky use that diesel to bomb Russia forces in Ukraine.

On the other hand america have plenty of oil but they want lower oil price , however they can't get it if iran keep imposing 20% fee on every tanker in strait of hormuz

 

[KingQamaR]

The question should not be whether or not J-20 is superior to the Raptor. The question you should ask is battlefield survivability. And that does not just involve F-22 and J-20; you also need to factor in a whole range of support weaponry and service support element.

Take Operation Absolute Resolve, for example (Where the US flew in Venezuela and captured Maduro). Single-up, I don't think that's replicable for any country, including China, to replicate, because you do not just fly in F-22 or whatever alone and think that would be enough, even if you have a state-of-the-art fighter like the J-20 or F-22 or F-35.

The problem is, when a J-20 meets an F-22 in hostile skies, it won't just be a 1-on-1 fight; you will have a series of support elements behind the F-22, things like EC-130, EA-18G, E-767/E-7 Wedgetail, and so on. The question you should ask is: can PLAAF come up with a combo to defeat all these

Same goes for J20 won’t be alone!

I’m sure the PLA must be working out strategies on how best to use combined mixes of J20 with non stealth fighters, Now add loyal drone wingman to the mix. I don’t think China is playing catch up here.

 

[j_hungary]

Same goes for J20 won’t be alone!

I’m sure the PLA must be working out strategies on how best to use combined mixes of J20 with non stealth fighters, Now add loyal drone wingman to the mix. I don’t think China is playing catch up here.

That's the difference: you would be sure PLAAF would come up with something because that's an unknown, but the F-22/F-35 combo with all the support elements has already participated in an actual combat situation in metrics that we can actually measure. That already mean China is already playing catch up here....

There's an old saying in military science: no plan survives the first contact with the enemy. You can plan and move all your pieces all you want, but you never know what your enemy will do when you actually initiate combat, which is why experience matters.