India questions US ‘double standards’ as Pakistan secures F-16 upgrade deal

[Feroze]

Pakistanis do not need to ask Americans for military equipment anymore Washington knows that. China is Pakistanis main supplier of modern weapons nowadays . To have any remaining influence on Pakistani military Washington will upgrade F16s

If USA wishes to have any influence with Pakistan, then USA will have to upgrade the Pakistani F-16s.

Otherwise enough buying Amerian shit products.

Better to buy Chinese military equipment.

 

[Master Chief]

That was not as a matter of factual accuracy but the pride of Pakistani army to say / acknowledge that India can pierce the defences of Pakistan Army. Unlike India, Pakistani army control entire pakistan policies and every aspects of life and to acknowledge that despite gobbling up entire budget of Pakistan, they are not good, is lot to concede by them. They do not have any evidence even now but they realized that they can still rule without this bravado / with this failure. Yesterday your army chief was talking about mineral investment. He talks about raising funds, economy. ...what not.

World has understood that Pakistan can never be a democracy or secular etc but we get amazed when it tries to preach India on democracy and secularism. It's like a student who got 30% , lecturing a student who got 60% , how to improve his marks. Funny world but that's the way world works. Why loose pants over these things.

113 Foreign Delegates Barred From India Ahead of Congress’s Bharat Summit - The Wire

More than 100 foreign participants, including Norwegian journalist Helle Lyng, were denied entry despite receiving prior clearances and visas. Sources close to the organisers have questioned the home ministrys involvement.

m.thewire.in

Why do u folks think we, of all people, are going to buy the "we are vibrant democracy saar!" ?

You may fool the innocent lefty whites who dwell on these threads. But Pakistanis know your unique version of hybrid governance very well.

 

[roger]

113 Foreign Delegates Barred From India Ahead of Congress’s Bharat Summit - The Wire

More than 100 foreign participants, including Norwegian journalist Helle Lyng, were denied entry despite receiving prior clearances and visas. Sources close to the organisers have questioned the home ministrys involvement.

m.thewire.in

Why do u folks think we, of all people, are going to buy the "we are vibrant democracy saar!" ?

You may fool the innocent lefty whites who dwell on these threads. But Pakistanis know your unique version of hybrid governance very well.

Getting Visa is a privilege and not a right . Of all People, Pakistan knows this when they request to travel. What has that to do with democracy. You are funny, if you think denying Visa by any European country or USA etc and here India, makes it govt hybrid . India will not allow anyone it wishes unwelcome. This follows Indian law on Visa and India does not care what the leftist loonies think.

 

[Master Chief]

Getting Visa is a privilege and not a right . Of all People, Pakistan knows this when they request to travel. What has that to do with democracy. You are funny, if you think denying Visa by any European country or USA etc and here India, makes it govt hybrid . India will not allow anyone it wishes unwelcome. This follows Indian law on Visa and India does not care what the leftist loonies think.

I will remind you that the original poster you responded to with your drivel was merely mentioning the changed narrative regarding Indian involvement in Balochi and other insurgencies. You could have discussed the matter raised but you yourself chose to digress.

Your response, instead of addressing his points, was to discuss the hybrid governance of Pakistan (and address it as though it were some weakness). The exact same model of executive control over democratic institutions is employed by countries such as India and Russia, with replacement of military generals by oligarchs in the decision making hierarchy, whose interests are in turn protected by the state. This is indeed the very essence of hybrid governance, specifically given the name "oligarchy", and is regarded as such the world over despite your protests to the contrary.

https://pure.uva.nl/ws/files/225447122/The_Oligarchisation_of_Indias_Democracy.pdf

India Remains an Electoral Autocracy, Slips Five Places on Liberal Democracy Index: V-Dem Report - The Wire

The ruling anti-pluralist, Hindu-nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and Prime Minister Modi’s derailing of democracy include deteriorations in freedom of expression and independence of the media, harassments of journalists critical of the government, and attacks on civil society and the...

m.thewire.in

 

[K2RULEZ]

I will remind you that the original poster you responded to with your drivel was merely mentioning the changed narrative regarding Indian involvement in Balochi and other insurgencies. You could have discussed the matter raised but you yourself chose to digress.

Your response, instead of addressing his points, was to discuss the hybrid governance of Pakistan (and address it as though it were some weakness). The exact same model of executive control over democratic institutions is employed by countries such as India and Russia, with replacement of military generals by oligarchs in the decision making hierarchy, whose interests are in turn protected by the state. This is indeed the very essence of hybrid governance, specifically given the name "oligarchy", and is regarded as such the world over despite your protests to the contrary.

https://pure.uva.nl/ws/files/225447122/The_Oligarchisation_of_Indias_Democracy.pdf

India Remains an Electoral Autocracy, Slips Five Places on Liberal Democracy Index: V-Dem Report - The Wire

The ruling anti-pluralist, Hindu-nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and Prime Minister Modi’s derailing of democracy include deteriorations in freedom of expression and independence of the media, harassments of journalists critical of the government, and attacks on civil society and the...

m.thewire.in

This @roger is a multi ID Indian rat.

 

[SABRE]

Pakistanis do not need to ask Americans for military equipment anymore Washington knows that. China is Pakistanis main supplier of modern weapons nowadays . To have any remaining influence on Pakistani military Washington will upgrade F16s

China is Pakistan's main and most reliable source of weapons & is a defence tech enabler. It is our only strategic partner. But to assume that Pakistan is not charmed by succulent American military technology would be incorrect.

 

[Meengla]

China is Pakistan's main and most reliable source of weapons & is a defence tech enabler. It is our only strategic partner. But to assume that Pakistan is not charmed by succulent American military technology would be incorrect.

70 F16s upgraded to be good till 2040 is not peanuts. It is still a very capable fighter jet and Pakistani pilots have plenty of experience with them. So no wonder the Indians don't like the upgrade. And it is to be noted that the Pakistani request to upgrade was initially denied by the Americans (2021/22); the upgrades are more than putting some paint on the jets.

 

[K2RULEZ]

70 F16s upgraded to be good till 2040 is not peanuts. It is still a very capable fighter jet and Pakistani pilots have plenty of experience with them. So no wonder the Indians don't like the upgrade. And it is to be noted that the Pakistani request to upgrade was initially denied by the Americans (2021/22); the upgrades are more than putting some paint on the jets.

Time and time again, the Democrats have proved to be a fervent friend of India.

 

[Meengla]

Time and time again, the Democrats have proved to be a fervent friend of India.

Parts of Obama's tenure wasn't too bad but he needed Pakistan's help in Afghanistan. Also, Senator Kerry had a soft spot for Pakistan and he was a prominent part of Obama's circle. But you are right: In general the Democrats are harsh on Pakistan. However, Senator Van Hollen is very likely to be more balanced; I hope he becomes the next POTUS!

 

[K2RULEZ]

Parts of Obama's tenure wasn't too bad but he needed Pakistan's help in Afghanistan. Also, Senator Kerry had a soft spot for Pakistan and he was a prominent part of Obama's circle. But you are right: In general the Democrats are harsh on Pakistan. However, Senator Van Hollen is very likely to be more balanced; I hope he becomes the next POTUS!

They all backstabbed and accused Pakistan. Obama too was a friend of India. In fact, Obama era is where all the Pakistan hate really began. India was identified as a substitute to China. Pakistan was seen as a major thorn in US plans. The Democrats have been awful against Pakistan.

The irony is that the Republicans have been more lenient towards Pakistan, despite many claiming to the contrary.

 

[atmi_bum]

Wrong, until very recently Pakistan did not even name India directly for terror attacks on its soil. It knew who was funding them but would not call out India specifically. That only changed recently around the time that in stark contrast India blamed and attacked Pakistan without even starting an investigation.

You are splitting hairs. The fact of the matter is that both India and Pakistan have accused each other, directly or indirectly, of terrorism for decades. Some of it comical.

For example, take a look at what's been posted on PDF. There have been accusations of India supporting the Taliban, TTP, and BLA, but no evidence has been offered. On the other hand, if there's a terrorist attack in India, it's assumed to be a false flag operation, again without evidence.

This is the game being played—by both sides.

 

[atmi_bum]

do u really think any of these powers would actually want or tolerate india as a regional hegemon or power? Even America don’t want that. So the balance of power will always be kept and the upgrades are part of that. It wants its fighter jet in an offensive role into the future and these upgrades will do that.

Nah there are bigger games at play and india has proved irrelevant, everyone just views it as a big consumer to sell their stuff.

Our FO has the right to voice concerns over Indian hegemonic dreams and its not a complain. Just tellig the world the reality so nobody complaining later if their “investment” go poof dust. Hopefully it reaches the sane people in india so disaster can perhaps be averted but I don’t hope on that much

The entire balance of power in South Asia is rooted in Cold War geopolitics, which is no longer relevant after the fall of the USSR. Why else did the US and the West abandon Pakistan and lean toward India? If it weren't for WoT, Pakistan would still be ignored.

The upgrades are inconsequential because the threat to India isn't F-16s, but the Chinese hardware Pakistan is acquiring. As far as I see it, it's a military sale to Pakistan where the US benefits. Besides, the US has offered almost every weapons system to India it may want. Hardly the actions of a country seeking a balance of power in South Asia.

I will ignore your comment about India being irrelevant in world affairs as pure ignorance.

Like I said in my original post, both sides play this game because they have to, even if they know nothing will come from it. Perception matters.

 

[Meengla]

They all backstabbed and accused Pakistan. Obama too was a friend of India. In fact, Obama era is where all the Pakistan hate really began. India was identified as a substitute to China. Pakistan was seen as a major thorn in US plans. The Democrats have been awful against Pakistan.

The irony is that the Republicans have been more lenient towards Pakistan, despite many claiming to the contrary.

It is a different topic but I will say this: Billions of $ came to Pakistan under Obama and the badmouthing started when Pakistan refused to be India's bitch in the region and when Pakistan refused to compromise its interests in Afghanistan. But all that paled in comparison to Trump not only stopping money going to Pakistan for legit expenses but also almost daily badmouthing Pakistan while literally hugging Modi. Biden at least didn't do those--hey just didn't pay much attention to Pakistan and less attention to India.

Anyway, going forward, I am planning to fully support Chris Van Hollen for the POTUS role and I will also write to him constantly should a certain group of Pakistanis in America try to influence him over some 'democracy' charade; I will tell Chris the reality of those Pakistanis' claim. It will be a David vs Goliath because those Pakistanis are also backed by the Indians and the Afghans but someone has to make an effort and I will do so!

 

[K2RULEZ]

The entire balance of power in South Asia is rooted in Cold War geopolitics, which is no longer relevant after the fall of the USSR. Why else did the US and the West abandon Pakistan and lean toward India? If it weren't for WoT, Pakistan would still be ignored.

The upgrades are inconsequential because the threat to India isn't F-16s, but the Chinese hardware Pakistan is acquiring. As far as I see it, it's a military sale to Pakistan where the US benefits. Besides, the US has offered almost every weapons system to India it may want. Hardly the actions of a country seeking a balance of power in South Asia.

I will ignore your comment about India being irrelevant in world affairs as pure ignorance.

Like I said in my original post, both sides play this game because they have to, even if they know nothing will come from it. Perception matters.

It is funny you hold such a lengthy plea, yet your Indian leaders beg to differ with you. It is your own ministers and leaders that are crying, accusing and pleading to the US not to upgrade Pakistani F-16s.

In fact, this is your leaders doing the same in Europe:

https://www.telegraphindia.com/amp/india/europe-sold-weapons-used-against-india-for-years-says-s-jaishankar-backs-russia-oil-imports/cid/2165270

Netherlands cites strict ‘end user’ agreements on arms exports to Pakistan as India ties firms up

The Dutch Foreign Minister’s visit nonetheless advanced India-Netherlands relations. An MoU on semiconductors was signed, and a Letter of Intent on Defence Cooperation was exchanged, with a Dutch frigate set to visit Kochi in May 2026.

www.wionews.com

Your Indian leaders literally beg the entire world not to sell anything to Pakistan.

 

[roger]

I will remind you that the original poster you responded to with your drivel was merely mentioning the changed narrative regarding Indian involvement in Balochi and other insurgencies. You could have discussed the matter raised but you yourself chose to digress.

Your response, instead of addressing his points, was to discuss the hybrid governance of Pakistan (and address it as though it were some weakness). The exact same model of executive control over democratic institutions is employed by countries such as India and Russia, with replacement of military generals by oligarchs in the decision making hierarchy, whose interests are in turn protected by the state. This is indeed the very essence of hybrid governance, specifically given the name "oligarchy", and is regarded as such the world over despite your protests to the contrary.

https://pure.uva.nl/ws/files/225447122/The_Oligarchisation_of_Indias_Democracy.pdf

India Remains an Electoral Autocracy, Slips Five Places on Liberal Democracy Index: V-Dem Report - The Wire

The ruling anti-pluralist, Hindu-nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and Prime Minister Modi’s derailing of democracy include deteriorations in freedom of expression and independence of the media, harassments of journalists critical of the government, and attacks on civil society and the...

m.thewire.in

This is new leftist loonies coining a term only they understand when they are not able to win elections. What is electoral autocracy? In Indian context , 140 crore population, 30 plus province, right from village level ( panchayat system) to province and central government, everyone is elected through free and fair votes. Wire, Caravan etc are Congress mouthpiece and Congress will never be able to come in power as long as Gandhi family is keeping a tight lease on the party. They are such hypocrates. They areike your Bhuttos and Sharief. In comparison to them BJP is truly democratic party as anyone can become CM and PM from BJP .

Let's not digress. I was only resorting to strange claim and do not want to detail . Don't buy funny logic of left loonies ( who historically only produce tyrants ) when they coin these tems. Democracy is democracy and power by majority government. People decide .