PTI freedom movement against Judiciary and Establishment: News, Discussion & Updates

[hussain0216]

This debate over 'our kind of Islam' versus 'their kind of Islam' has cost millions of Muslim lives and remains unresolved. In Pakistan, people are killing each other over the belief that their version of Islam is superior. Ahmadis have been declared kafir because they believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani was the last prophet. Sufis are labeled kafir for singing and worshiping Muhammad instead of Allah. Shias are called kafir for seeking help from Ali. Bengali Muslims were killed after being declared kafir for not adhering to Pakistan’s Islamic culture. Every sect of Islam considers others as kafir.

In contrast, I have never seen this question arise among Hindus in India—that 'my kind of Hinduism or Sanatan is better than your kind of Sanatan or Hinduism.' Even if it did, Hindus aren't committing genocide over it. Despite being 100 times more diverse than Muslims in the Indian subcontinent, Hindus have never killed each other over issues of ethnicity or language either.

Hindus have the caste system which has systematically oppressed, killed, raped billions of Hindus over centuries and millennium

Why do you think so many Hindus dumped Hinduism as soon as they could

 

[Oscar]

I’ll give you an example to highlight the similarities and differences between India, Pakistan, and Turkey. When Salman Rushdie wrote *The Satanic Verses*, criticizing Muhammad (prophet of islam), the book was banned in India, Iran, and Pakistan. However, it remains unbanned in Turkey (a muslim majority secular country).

Because not only is Islam a VERY personal concept for that society, even when used in political machinations - that doesn’t mean they don’t practice Islam extremely strictly in terms of respect at mosques, learning and otherwise - but just that religion is not the judge of a person as the primary metric.

 

[Oscar]

This debate over 'our kind of Islam' versus 'their kind of Islam' has cost millions of Muslim lives and remains unresolved. In Pakistan, people are killing each other over the belief that their version of Islam is superior. Ahmadis have been declared kafir because they believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani was the last prophet. Sufis are labeled kafir for singing and worshiping Muhammad instead of Allah. Shias are called kafir for seeking help from Ali. Bengali Muslims were killed after being declared kafir for not adhering to Pakistan’s Islamic culture. Every sect of Islam considers others as kafir.

In contrast, I have never seen this question arise among Hindus in India—that 'my kind of Hinduism or Sanatan is better than your kind of Sanatan or Hinduism.' Even if it did, Hindus aren't committing genocide over it. Despite being 100 times more diverse than Muslims in the Indian subcontinent, Hindus have never killed each other over issues of ethnicity or language either.

You’re speaking this while lynchings are a common occurrence and bhaktoras are shouting against mosques here and there at the top of their lungs?

Rather hypocritical - and Hinduism has had its battles too, on everything from caste to interpretation. However, just because violence has reduced doesn’t mean bigotry has not.

As for muslims in India and Pakistan - they are after all “Hindu-Muslims” culturally and carry that baggage with them.

That is still irrelevant to the thread

 

[Circadian Rhythm]

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[Bigda_Jatt]

A nuclear armed one and don't forget that Indians.

Well, we don't intend to reduce the size of our shield AKA Pakistan.

Thank God we have Pakistan on our western borders.

I believe what ever God does happens for a reason.

 

[Pataliputra]

Hindus are divided as well, Brahman and lower class. India has more fault line than Pakistan, but we have Asim stupid qazi idiot anjam low class badmash

Faultlines do exist in Indian society, but those very same Faultlines are magnified several times when the majority population is Muslim. If another nation were carved out of India in the name of Islam, you would see Muslims fighting and killing each other over ethnicity, language, sects and religion—just like they do in Pakistan.
For instance, Hindu Punjabis and Bengalis won’t kill each other over ethnicity, but when they're Muslims, the situation changes.

 

[SaadH]

Elected or unelected is insignificant compared to a capable and motivated government. There have been many examples of dictators doing perfectly well, and democrats destroying things.

At the end of the day these are buzzwords, highly dependent on context, and what matters more is the individual. You glamorise democracy but 90% of Pakistanis barely even care about democracy back home, it's very new alien concept.

Which dictator(s) in particular did perfectly well?

 

[RealNapster]

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Kidhr Gaye WO judge Jo aik khat naa likne par saza suna Kar wazeer E Azam na-ehal Kar dety thy.

 

[Cash gk]

Faultlines do exist in Indian society, but those very same Faultlines are magnified several times when the majority population is Muslim. If another nation were carved out of India in the name of Islam, you would see Muslims fighting and killing each other over ethnicity, language, sects and religion—just like they do in Pakistan.
For instance, Hindu Punjabis and Bengalis won’t kill each other over ethnicity, but when they're Muslims, the situation changes.

Sad reality I agree

 

[Pataliputra]

Because not only is Islam a VERY personal concept for that society, even when used in political machinations - that doesn’t mean they don’t practice Islam extremely strictly in terms of respect at mosques, learning and otherwise - but just that religion is not the judge of a person as the primary metric.

In my opinion, what sets a Muslim from the Indian subcontinent apart from a Turk or Arab Muslim is an underlying inferiority complex rooted in the shame of being a converted Muslim race. This sense of inferiority often drives Muslims in the subcontinent to distance themselves from local customs and traditions, which, in turn, contributes to the ethnic and religious tensions observed in the Muslims of this region. Since Islam is not native to the Indian subcontinent, this dynamic further complicates issues of identity and belonging.

 

[PakFactor]

In my opinion, what sets a Muslim from the Indian subcontinent apart from a Turk or Arab Muslim is an underlying inferiority complex rooted in the shame of being a converted Muslim race. This sense of inferiority often drives Muslims in the subcontinent to distance themselves from local customs and traditions, which, in turn, contributes to the ethnic and religious tensions observed in the Muslims of this region. Since Islam is not native to the Indian subcontinent, this dynamic further complicates issues of identity and belonging.

Where the hell did you come up with this stupid analysis? Instead, we are proud of being Muslims because the alternative was that shit and dehumanizing culture and traditions of the subcontinent. The local culture is repulsive by its very nature. Many Pakistanis want to get away from it as it's not progressive and degrades human development.

Living as a Pakistani-American and having an outside view looking in.

 

[Cash gk]

In my opinion, what sets a Muslim from the Indian subcontinent apart from a Turk or Arab Muslim is an underlying inferiority complex rooted in the shame of being a converted Muslim race. This sense of inferiority often drives Muslims in the subcontinent to distance themselves from local customs and traditions, which, in turn, contributes to the ethnic and religious tensions observed in the Muslims of this region. Since Islam is not native to the Indian subcontinent, this dynamic further complicates issues of identity and belonging.

Since Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) left this world, Khatm-e-Nabuwwat, the "Finality of Prophethood," has been a core belief in Islam. However, in the subcontinent, we have complicated Islam to the extent that it even undermines the concept of the finality of prophethood. Islam is originally a very simple and progressive religion.

 

[hussain0216]

In my opinion, what sets a Muslim from the Indian subcontinent apart from a Turk or Arab Muslim is an underlying inferiority complex rooted in the shame of being a converted Muslim race. This sense of inferiority often drives Muslims in the subcontinent to distance themselves from local customs and traditions, which, in turn, contributes to the ethnic and religious tensions observed in the Muslims of this region. Since Islam is not native to the Indian subcontinent, this dynamic further complicates issues of identity and belonging.

All people converted to Islam

We dumped Hinduism
Arabs themselves were idol worshippers like hindus
Turks worshipped the sky or something
Iranian were fire worshippers

Local customs and traditions were jahil, many of the worst aspects of society are due to Hindu customs we still can't shake

 

[SaadH]

Where the hell did you come up with this stupid analysis? Instead, we are proud of being Muslims because the alternative was that shit and dehumanizing culture and traditions of the subcontinent. The local culture is repulsive by its very nature. Many Pakistanis want to get away from it as it's not progressive and degrades human development.

Living as a Pakistani-American and having an outside view looking in.

This is how Babar described the native culture of India 500 years ago in his babarnama:

Babur found Hindustan to be “a place of little charm”, with “no beauty in its people, no graceful social intercourse, no poetic talent or understanding, no etiquette, nobility or manliness”

You can see plenty of examples of this even in our times. The language and hygiene of an average Indian versus a Pakistani.

 

[Cash gk]

This is how Babar described the native culture of India 500 years ago in his babarnama:

Babur found Hindustan to be “a place of little charm”, with “no beauty in its people, no graceful social intercourse, no poetic talent or understanding, no etiquette, nobility or manliness”

Oh my God. I must read that book.