Syrian Civil War and The future of Syria after liberation

Nah, only the monarchies have amounted to something (by large) in the modern post WW2 Arab world. So that would be counterproductive. "Democracy" is not really a perfect system either. Meritocracy is better and in many ways KSA already has that due to the majlids, tribes/clans, business class, religious class (although nowadays without much influence) + having a formal alliance and benefiting from it mutually. Without that ruling a vast country like KSA would be impossible.

Also have in mind that unlike most of the Muslim world, the GCC is the richest area of the Muslim world (by far) and the rulers (monarchs) provide for the people. Free healthcare, free education, help with purchase of land, housing, help during marriage and dowry, no taxation, world class infrastructure, sending talented students abroad (and less talented) for free and many other services that are unthinkable even in rich Western European democracies.

The problem is that they like any rulers, more so monarchies, are overly protective of their thrones and thus as a consequence cautious geopolitically. KSA was the exception but after the Arab Spring, KSA has adopted a more isolationist stance that I applaud as it has led to a rapid development in KSA, industrialization, opening up the country for tourism, attracting massive (on a world scale) sporting and cultural events, getting to host the World Cup, Asian Games, Formula 1, Dakar Rally, major tennis and ports tournaments, e-sports, music etc. Basically opening up the economy and country = more money to spend on infrastructure, military, overall development = less Saudi Arabians going abroad and spending huge sums of money abroad, = more expats spending inside KSA as most what they seek can be found within KSA nowadays. Not everything I agree with, personally I don't give a crap about so-called famous singers and what not, never attended a single such concert, but the sporting events and overall tourist projects (opening up heritage sites, Islamic as pre-Islamic, building world class beach resorts, island resorts, mountain, desert resorts etc.) is a good thing for the economy and people's well-being.

Better than during the dreaded Sahwa era where we had retarded elements (at times but it occurred) harassing people with music instruments and other stupidities that were introduced by hard-liners post Iranian Islamic revolution in 1979 next door and the Al-Masjid al-Haram seizure by terrorists.

Off-topic but you started it so I just wanted to write my two cents for what it is worth. You are free to disagree, it is just my opinion, you will find Saudi Arabians who want more reforms, less etc. But pretty much most like MbS a lot and what he is doing. Obviously he is just the figurehead but whatever made those changes (mostly focusing on our industrialization push) was long overdue.
That's what we love on this forum: freedom to express your views in an intelligent fashion, enlightened, thank you! But got to disagree with you on some aspects and the possible strategic outcomes of the direction KSA is taking.

FInancially rich but morally bankrupt is not something to be proud of. Exporting of people for education without caution leads to importing of corrupt practices and ideologies and dilution of Islamic values, to an extent where your people have now become indifferent and impotent to a genocide next door. Remember shame has no honor and being shameless is a dishonor. Reaching out a hand of friendship to people who will happily slaughter you and your population and believe you to be inferior is not wise. Dependency on your enemy will lead to a disaster in the future if you partner with those who are out to destroy you. The Harems and tall towers have clouded your judgment and the people will pay the price, enjoy today and ignore tomorrow will lead to your demise. You are ruled by the wealthy who are spoilt beyond imagination and who are playing the game of the corrupts, shielded by layers of wealth. Just look at the how the Syrian women and children exploited in the gulf states and the slaughter in Palestine next door.
 
So basically, it's all unproven

I am not diminishing china but until armies fight, weapons used, replenished, tactics are employed

It's all a bit under doubt, see myths and reality from Russia Ukraine

The USA has atleast kept it's war machine very active , they have EXPERIENCE, decades of it

Some experience >>> no experience

So I am just wondering, when will china show it's fangs? Will it ever?

China's No 1 goal is reuniting with Taiwan. That is paramount.

But it will make that move when China is financially and technologically not only independent of the West but superior. Which is what all of its resources are focused on.

I think a decade from now, the situation will be significantly different.
 
Assad, has never really helped Palestinian peoples with his Army or gave them any weapons. Israel and Syria had a treaty in which Syrian Army job was to protect Golan Border from anyone attacking it. Yep you heard it that’s absolutely correct And over 40 years, Syrian Army had never fired shots or fight to free their Golan Heights.


Let's take a step back and think about this at more than a superficial level.

Syria had no military capability to take back Golan. There is no point engaging in a shooting match with someone with a bigger gun. Egypt and Syria combined could not do this in 1973 and so thinking that Syria could do this in the 2000s was absurd

Assad was useful(and critical) as he allowed Hezbollah to be supplied. That was at personal risk to his own safety and remember how Netanyahu threatened him to stop supplying Hezbollah just before the "rebel" offensive.
 
Do you agree that you are the servant of the Americans? Anyway, it is a big loss for a nation that having an empire in past, now becomes a backward country that is a servant of the West.
Bro
I understand your frustrations and anger. I
Am in your camp but you need to look at what the Syrian people want. There has been no huge bloodshed or resistance.
I am concerned about land theft by the various actors but let’s wait and see.
Let’s hope for sanity and the Syrian people return and reacquaint with their motherland.
 
Without this and also getting a large share of the "Global South" invested in the Chinese alternative order, it cannot do much to influence events in regions like ME.


It needs to earn global South allegiance because it has to be worth the risk, it therefore has to be brave show leadership

Russia seemingly could do more in me but china cannot?

No it's a question of letting others take the heat so they can win more time , so if it's every man for himself then other nations might sell out china to earn space in the West

After all, minus economic ties what do they owe china?
 
China's No 1 goal is reuniting with Taiwan. That is paramount.

But it will make that move when China is financially and technologically not only independent of the West but superior. Which is what all of its resources are focused on.

I think a decade from now, the situation will be significantly different.
Ok

Sure

So why would global South want to risk anything to allow china to achieve this, or should they
 
China's military is more or less on par technologically with the US. Although each country is ahead in different fields. The US has superior stealth bomber tech, aircraft carrier tech, etc. China has superior hypersonic tech, drone tech and robotic tech.

The US is obviously still far stronger in logistics because of the 800 military bases that the US military operates through the world and its military alliances. China is no competition for that yet. {...}

The USA are doing what China dreams of not just technologically, but also in terms of strategy, power projection, and alliances. On equal footing? Maybe someday. But not today.

and btw: Comparing military budgets makes the disparity even clearer. The US invests nearly $900 billion, while China lags far behind with $300 billion. Even with steady growth, it would take China decades to catch up, assuming the US doesnt ramp things up even further in the meantime. The success of this catch-up game? Highly doubtful.
 
Do you agree that you are the servant of the Americans? Anyway, it is a big loss for a nation that having an empire in past, now becomes a backward country that is a servant of the West.
Yeap, we served kebab, they ate.

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Ok

Sure

So why would global South want to risk anything to allow china to achieve this, or should they
When has the global south risked anything for China?

China is empowering the global south by providing valuable alternatives when it comes to loans, infrastructure, technology, etc.
 
It needs to earn global South allegiance because it has to be worth the risk, it therefore has to be brave show leadership

Russia seemingly could do more in me but china cannot?

No it's a question of letting others take the heat so they can win more time , so if it's every man for himself then other nations might sell out china to earn space in the West

After all, minus economic ties what do they owe china?


Russia is an oil and gas station with nuclear weapons and so it does not care about world trade.

China has to as otherwise its growth can be throttled before it is strong enough to take on the combined west and its bunch of lackeys like Japan.

Also there is deep seated racism(lol) against East Asians and religious bigotry in the Arab world. They would rather partner with "superior" Whites than "inferior" Chinese all else being equal.

As @tower9 has said, no one can help Sunni Arabs as they do not know who their real enemies are.

I personally believe in maybe 10 years from now China will start to have more influence in ME(passively) as countries like Iran do not need the west as much as China will provide them whatever the west has as of now. People need to be patient and China is not obligated to get involved in ME to help anyone.
 
The USA are doing what China dreams of not just technologically, but also in terms of strategy, power projection, and alliances. On equal footing? Maybe someday. But not today.

and btw: Comparing military budgets makes the disparity even clearer. The US invests nearly $900 billion, while China lags far behind with $300 billion. Even with steady growth, it would take China decades to catch up, assuming the US doesnt ramp things up even further in the meantime. The success of this catch-up game? Highly doubtful.
The US employs a global military empire of 800 bases. Much of that spending is for logistics. Not to mention the mismanagement in the Pentagon, they have not been able to account for hundreds of billions spent in the last few years.

China's budget primarily goes into R&D and manufacturing so it is producing much more cost effective results than what the budget might suggest.

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But if you're talking about China maintaining a global empire, I agree that China is nowhere near matching the US on that and I don't think they are even interested. They see how the US has gotten overstretched and the severe strain it is taking.
 
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When has the global south risked anything for China?

China is empowering the global south by providing valuable alternatives when it comes to loans, infrastructure, technology, etc.


Too difficult for some to comprehend details like this.

It should be all about Chinese weapons, 10s of billions of Yuan in cash and maybe a sending a couple of Chinese carriers with Type 52D/55 escorts to ME to "flex its muscles". (y)
 

Israel says it destroyed Syrian naval fleet

From Dana Karni in Tel Aviv

Syrian naval ships destroyed during an overnight Israeli attack on the port city of Latakia on December 10.


Syrian naval ships destroyed during an overnight Israeli attack on the port city of Latakia on December 10.
Aaref Watad/AFP/Getty Images

Israel’s defense minister on Tuesday said that the Israeli Navy has destroyed Syria’s naval fleet.

“The navy operated last night to destroy the Syrian fleet, and it was a great success,” Israel Katz said during a visit to the Haifa naval base.

An AFP photographer captured large-scale destruction of military vessels at the Syrian naval base in Latakia in western Syria.

“The IDF has been operating in Syria over the past few days to target and destroy strategic capabilities that pose a threat to the State of Israel,” Katz said.

Israel did not destroy these military assets when Asad was in power when they were being used against the Syrian people and now all of a sudden Israel feels the need to destroy all these things?
 
officially; The Syrian Air Force was completely destroyed last night.

- Israeli Army Radio:
• We destroyed the capabilities of the Syrian army with the largest air operation we carried out in our history.
• For the first time in more than 5 decades, we completely bombed the air bases of the Syrian Air Force.
• About 300 raids were carried out on various military targets, most of them belonging to the Syrian Air Force, and among the targets were air bases, where entire squadrons of “MiG” and “Sukhoi” aircraft were destroyed - tonight Israeli raids continued throughout Syria.
• It is likely that within a few days the Syrian air force will be virtually eliminated, and the new forces there will no longer have any capabilities to use air platforms, which were already weak.
• We destroyed dozens of large and advanced air defense batteries spread across Syria, practically disabling, in a historic step in every sense of the word, the Syrian air defense system.

@CressFiles
 

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