PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[Bentley777]

The new subs Pakistan is buying From China are apparently downgraded from their Chinese counter parts. Same with Chinese warships Pakistan buys.

We know that the J-10C is a downgraded version as well.

The Al-Haider is supposed to be the full package, but China sold Pakistan the export version which is downgraded and doesn't have certain features.

Those are just a few examples.

Off topic but i think our type39B subs are slightly heavy than normal type39B available for export.

 

[TAC]

I do know what I'm talking about.

You however have been proven wrong almost everytime.

Where did I bring up the USA? You're creating a strawman to argue with.

Seriously, there is a limit to how delusional one can be.

China's relationship with Pakistan isn't all that special; Pakistanis like to pretend otherwise, but China thinks of Pakistan as a useful sucker.

Your personal views that you were shoving down everyone’s throats as fact, were proved totally incorrect by a better informed and more knowledgeable member in Michael. Time to bow out gracefully rather than keep digging.

 

[Oscar]

I do know what I'm talking about.

You however have been proven wrong almost everytime.

Where did I bring up the USA? You're creating a strawman to argue with.

Seriously, there is a limit to how delusional one can be.

China's relationship with Pakistan isn't all that special; Pakistanis like to pretend otherwise, but China thinks of Pakistan as a useful sucker.

The last paragraph may be an exaggeration but it is safe to say it is a relationship under strain. There are Chinese suppliers who have tried to sucker Pakistani taxpayers WITH FACILITATION from Pakistanis just as there are Pakistanis who have tried to sucker Chinese as well.

However, the simple matter is that regardless of ambitions - the lack of resources both monetary and knowledge (human) leave most PAF projects in delays or simply lost like AZM.

AZM was over ambitious BUT there was a way to achieve its goals IF the plan and execution was there. Unfortunately Pakistan usually lacks both and it’s saving grace has been greater bumbling on the eastern front.

But that wont last long as eventually better Human Resources (due to both better knowledge available locally and from abroad and a much larger pool of them) in the east will meet the already abundant monetary resources to slingshot their capabilities - if not in the next 5 then the next 10 years.

PAF has like the entire Pakistani military brilliance, honesty and competence in a few that as I repeat ad nauseum - keep the lights on. But their plans and efforts end up in tatters once the mediocrity and circumstances beyond their control taken in halls where even higher incompetence and mediocrity prevails hits them.

China will have the FC-31 ready for its forces in the next 3 years but it also is more geared to absorb them because it has laid out the backbone for it with years of J-20 operations.

Pakistan meanwhile needs to put a lot in place both in terms of materials but also enabling Human Resources which it can rely on China to do so but cannot scale at home.

The optimism here is laughable at best and saddening because the one aspect of Pakistani members that set them apart from the many hyper nationalist conceited condescending copy pasters coming from the east here was having at least one foot grounded in reality - I feel that has been abandoned as well in the spate of populist ideals and the plethora of nonsensical youtube chatgpt channels out there.

 

[Oscar]

The new subs Pakistan is buying From China are apparently downgraded from their Chinese counter parts. Same with Chinese warships Pakistan buys.

We know that the J-10C is a downgraded version as well.

The Al-Haider is supposed to be the full package, but China sold Pakistan the export version which is downgraded and doesn't have certain features.

Those are just a few examples.

Depends -

If you bought a Tesla without autopilot - is it downgraded because of you or your wallet?

As for what is delivered and what is not - @Michael has given you the Chinese view regarding MTCR and the Pakistani view is that it fully respects the treaty therefore everything declared as purchased from China meets those guidelines.

Missile performance is after all dependent on so many factors so they can be limited to 145km.

Or - Pakistan can always “make” them in house…

 

[That_Guy]

Your personal views that you were shoving down everyone’s throats as fact, were proved totally incorrect by a better informed and more knowledgeable member in Michael. Time to bow out gracefully rather than keep digging.

Except his point ended up proving me right. Pakistanndoes not get the Chinese version that so many people say. The Chinese automatically remove top secret tech, which is an automatic downgrade.

 

[That_Guy]

Depends -

If you bought a Tesla without autopilot - is it downgraded because of you or your wallet?

As for what is delivered and what is not - @Michael has given you the Chinese view regarding MTCR and the Pakistani view is that it fully respects the treaty therefore everything declared as purchased from China meets those guidelines.

Missile performance is after all dependent on so many factors so they can be limited to 145km.

Or - Pakistan can always “make” them in house…

I would argue whether it's because of the MTCR or not, Pakistan does get weaker versions.

My example for the PL-15e is a good example that no one has been able to properly refute.

Pakistan's military has shown, even if it's a detrimental to the health of the country's finances, they will try and buy thesa best they can, unless they have no choice.

I dont have any faith that Pakistan is buying the best, simply because Pakistan isn't being offered the best.

 

[Michael]

As for what is delivered and what is not - @Michael has given you the Chinese view regarding MTCR and the Pakistani view is that it fully respects the treaty therefore everything declared as purchased from China meets those guidelines.
Missile performance is after all dependent on so many factors so they can be limited to 145km.
Or - Pakistan can always “make” them in house…

Regarding the MTCR rule, and the Chinese “290KM rule”. I will try to explain it using some basic logic.

Chinese people are realists. In our thousands of years of history, we have made many rules to ensure our development. However, when these rules constrain our development, we use countless ways to break them. This culture is very widespread in Chinese culture in all aspects of our lives.
Many people and things often stray from the edge of the rules. We call them “gray areas”. They can gradually become “unspoken rules”. If these “unspoken rules” are in line with the general trend of social development, then they will evolve into new formal rules. If they are not, they will be vigorously combated.
The private economy in modern China began as “unspoken rules” and evolved into state policy.

China is not a full member of the MTCR, but it has publicly declared its adherence to the rules. Chinese culture places a high value on “practicing what you preach”. Therefore, we can say with certainty that China's exports of weapons and equipment are in full compliance with the MTCR.

But......

Let's take the familiar PL-15E as an example.

The PAF has purchased a total of 240 PL-15E.
According to the video released by CCTV, the production line of PL-15 is a fully automated smart factory. That official video claims that the PL-15's extreme capacity can reach 1,000 pieces/day. Even if we narrow down the capacity by a factor of 10, the 240 PL-15E purchased by PAF is only a capacity of 2.5 days. So, we cannot build a separate production line for PL-15E.
It follows that the PL-15E is built on the same production line as the PL-15, and the vast majority of their components are identical.

Official maximum range: PL-15E 145KM, PL-15 over 200KM.

There are two ways to limit the range of the missile: navigation control system limitation and propulsion device limitation.
It was not possible to redevelop a separate navigation control system for the PL-15E with a shorter range. We can limit the range by means of command code restriction measures or performance reduction of a certain electronic component, and also by means of propellant reduction.
Please note. When China exports weaponry, it does not restrict private modifications by the user!

The PL-15Es that China exported to PAF are definitely range limited to 145 KM. but it is not under China's control whether PAF modifies them for range after receiving them. That is PAF's own business, nothing to do with China.

===========================================

Another interesting thing:
During the US-China tech/trade war, high-performance chips were the area where the fighting was the most intense.
Under the U.S. ban, top-of-the-line chips are prohibited from being exported to China. However, certain US companies sold certain top chips to Chinese companies after downgrading them for commercial gain. Meanwhile, some information on how to unlock them appeared on the Internet ......
This is our world!

 

[Trailer23]

Got this off a Chinese article. Clearly its for the PLAAN.

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[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

J-35A Shared by AVIC

 

[TAC]

Except his point ended up proving me right. Pakistanndoes not get the Chinese version that so many people say. The Chinese automatically remove top secret tech, which is an automatic downgrade.

You are selectively picking out from what he said and distorting it to claim that you were right. He himself has replied to you saying that he was saying the opposite to you, and yet you continue to dig and refuse to accept. There is nothing wrong with being wrong and getting corrected. It’s called learning.

 

[TAC]

I would argue whether it's because of the MTCR or not, Pakistan does get weaker versions.

My example for the PL-15e is a good example that no one has been able to properly refute.

Pakistan's military has shown, even if it's a detrimental to the health of the country's finances, they will try and buy thesa best they can, unless they have no choice.

I dont have any faith that Pakistan is buying the best, simply because Pakistan isn't being offered the best.

‘No one has been able to properly refute’??? I suggest you read the very detailed posts by Michael again. Perhaps you’ll get them the second time round.
So you now at least accept that these are just your personal views? Not based on any proof or facts & actually quite contrary to what has been shared on this thread.

 

[That_Guy]

‘No one has been able to properly refute’??? I suggest you read the very detailed posts by Michael again. Perhaps you’ll get them the second time round.
So you now at least accept that these are just your personal views? Not based on any proof or facts & actually quite contrary to what has been shared on this thread.

I did read it, quite in detail, and no it does not refute me.

 

[Zarvan]

I did read it, quite in detail, and no it does not refute me.

You have been refuted over and over again but you are too arrogant to accept it because you live in a bubble of delusions.

 

[That_Guy]

You are selectively picking out from what he said and distorting it to claim that you were right. He himself has replied to you saying that he was saying the opposite to you, and yet you continue to dig and refuse to accept. There is nothing wrong with being wrong and getting corrected. It’s called learning.

Reading his initial claim, and his secondary follow on made me come to that conclusion.

Why are you even involved if all you're going to do is accuse me for allegedly arguing with someone else?

Either give me something substantial, or move on.

 

[That_Guy]

You have been refuted over and over again but you are too arrogant to accept it because you live in a bubble of delusions.

Lmao

Pot calling the kettle black.

How's that SCAR that PA was supposed to pick?