PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[RafaleSlayer]

PAF's new war doctrine has turned the whole of IAF assets except 33 Rafales obsolete. I know Indians used to boast a lot about having money to buy whatever that want (thought they were only able to afford 36 Rafales instead of 126 they originally wanted), but now how many years if not decades will it take to replace all old assets?

 

[Michael]

“2+4+3” is the standard air combat configuration for the PAF's J-10CE.

Theoretically, Pakistan's small depth makes the J-10CE's greater range less necessary. It does not need to carry three secondary fuel tanks. However, the PAF currently has fewer J-10CEs and they have to need them to have a longer lag time. This is probably why the J-10CE usually carries 3 secondary fuel tanks.
If PAF increases the number of J-10CEs in the future, then the J-10CEs will no longer need to have a long lag time. We may see it carrying more missiles instead of sub-tanks.

 

[RafaleSlayer]

Somehow Pakistan lost the narrative on the air battle, instead of marketing it as "PAF destroyed IAF continuing with its legacy of 2019 and earlier conflicts" we marketed it as "Chinese fighters beat French fighters". Fighters are just one tool in the war tool box and it might be correct from Indian perspective because they cam to beat Pakistan only on the strength of Rafales using 1960's air battle concept without any proper doctrine, but from Pakistan's perspective J10's were just one of the tool in their wholesome new multi-dimensional air war doctrine comprised of many different type of assets and technologies complementing each other.

 

[MastanKhan]

Very interesting that nations have switched from under-estimating the PAF to now analyzing the JF-17 and J-10 in detail. I wouldn’t say over-estimating the PAF, but acknowledging the PAF is implementing an innovative doctrine and needs to be noted.

Hi,

If any of the european critics or these so called Pakistani pseudo's on this forum---who have claimed JF17 to be under powered---canon is a must on the Jf17---or an LCA cannot compete with a heavy fighter---JF17 is inferior---etc etc etc--- ever read Dale Brown books in the 1980's---1990's would have been better able to understand where technology was headed---.

The way PAF sabotaged the Brahmos flight---Dale Brown wrote about it some 25 years ago---and I commented based on that info some 22 years ago on this forum---.

You can only communicate with someone when you are on the same page knowledge wise---.

Otherwise like in the DCS world---they are still pitching the JF17 in a one circle or a two circle fight---mano a mano.

What fools the DCS world are looking like right now---and also some senior member who also had input in the DCS world---.

Oh well---sweet sweet smell of victory---.

 

[MH.Yang]

View attachment 121640

The Chinese meaning is: May the PL-15 send you warmth and illuminate your cockpit.

 

[Michael]

Somehow Pakistan lost the narrative on the air battle, instead of marketing it as "PAF destroyed IAF continuing with its legacy of 2019 and earlier conflicts" we marketed it as "Chinese fighters beat French fighters". Fighters are just one tool in the war tool box and it might be correct from Indian perspective because they cam to beat Pakistan only on the strength of Rafales using 1960's air battle concept without any proper doctrine, but from Pakistan's perspective J10's were just one of the tool in their wholesome new multi-dimensional air war doctrine comprised of many different type of assets and technologies complementing each other.

If Pakistan increases the publicity of J-10CE, then it may lead to a hot sale of J-10CE in the international arms market.
If J-10CE really sells well as a result of this, based on the logic of Chinese thinking and business logic, we will surely give Pakistan some tangible benefits.
This is what we call “回报” in Chinese business logic. This kind of thinking is prevalent in Chinese business thinking. It is legal, not corrupt behavior as you understand it.

So, your government is very smart.

 

[MastanKhan]

Somehow Pakistan lost the narrative on the air battle, instead of marketing it as "PAF destroyed IAF continuing with its legacy of 2019 and earlier conflicts" we marketed it as "Chinese fighters beat French fighters". Fighters are just one tool in the war tool box and it might be correct from Indian perspective because they cam to beat Pakistan only on the strength of Rafales using 1960's air battle concept without any proper doctrine, but from Pakistan's perspective J10's were just one of the tool in their wholesome new multi-dimensional air war doctrine comprised of many different type of assets and technologies complementing each other.

Hi,

I believe the Paf kept focus on the narrative---projecting chinese fighter / equipment was the right thing to do---.

China was being threatened from too many fronts---and seemingly---all that rhetoric has cooled down---.

Pakistan will get its share that it can handle---. Its current orders are beyond its production capacity---.

 

[MH.Yang]

If Pakistan increases the publicity of J-10CE, then it may lead to a hot sale of J-10CE in the international arms market.
If J-10CE really sells well as a result of this, based on the logic of Chinese thinking and business logic, we will surely give Pakistan some tangible benefits.
This is what we call “回报” in Chinese business logic. This kind of thinking is prevalent in Chinese business thinking. It is legal, not corrupt behavior as you understand it.

So, your government is very smart.

The Government of Pakistan and we have been old friends for decades. They do understand Chinese habits and principles of doing things very well. Unlike the Indians next door who misjudge China every time.

 

[FuturePAF]

Hi,

If any of the european critics or these so called Pakistani pseudo's on this forum---who have claimed JF17 to be under powered---canon is a must on the Jf17---or an LCA cannot compete with a heavy fighter---JF17 is inferior---etc etc etc--- ever read Dale Brown books in the 1980's---1990's would have been better able to understand where technology was headed---.

The way PAF sabotaged the Brahmos flight---Dale Brown wrote about it some 25 years ago---and I commented based on that info some 22 years ago on this forum---.

You can only communicate with someone when you are on the same page knowledge wise---.

Otherwise like in the DCS world---they are still pitching the JF17 in a one circle or a two circle fight---mano a mano.

What fools the DCS world are looking like right now---and also some senior member who also had input in the DCS world---.

Oh well---sweet sweet smell of victory---.

I loved dale brown books. Flight of the old dog, the EB-52, dreamland, Patrick Mclanahan, etc. My favorite was Fatal terrain. I listened to it on audiobook last month actually, when I was on vacation. Probably gone through that book 5 or 6 times over the years. I liked his books on China. If you could dream the tech, then you could focus on innovative strategies.

Btw, the DCS crowd are now also looking at the JF-17 anew. Fearing it. It’s wild.

 

[HRK]

Didn't the Block-3 get an air-to-air kill??

Either MiG-29 or Mirage-2000H + S-400 systems

Rafale were credited to J-10

 

[HRK]

Somehow Pakistan lost the narrative on the air battle, instead of marketing it as "PAF destroyed IAF continuing with its legacy of 2019 and earlier conflicts" we marketed it as "Chinese fighters beat French fighters". Fighters are just one tool in the war tool box and it might be correct from Indian perspective because they cam to beat Pakistan only on the strength of Rafales using 1960's air battle concept without any proper doctrine, but from Pakistan's perspective J10's were just one of the tool in their wholesome new multi-dimensional air war doctrine comprised of many different type of assets and technologies complementing each other.

It was not us but International Media which posted such headlines

 

[Gripen9]

I loved dale brown books. Flight of the old dog, the EB-52, dreamland, Patrick Mclanahan, etc. My favorite was Fatal terrain. I listened to it on audiobook last month actually, when I was on vacation. Probably gone through that book 5 or 6 times over the years. I liked his books on China. If you could dream the tech, then you could focus on innovative strategies.

Btw, the DCS crowd are now also looking at the JF-17 anew. Fearing it. It’s wild.

Yeah I saw one Sim on youtube. He had JF17 in the green demo livery go 1v1 with F18

 

[Reichmarshal]

If Pakistan increases the publicity of J-10CE, then it may lead to a hot sale of J-10CE in the international arms market.
If J-10CE really sells well as a result of this, based on the logic of Chinese thinking and business logic, we will surely give Pakistan some tangible benefits.
This is what we call “回报” in Chinese business logic. This kind of thinking is prevalent in Chinese business thinking. It is legal, not corrupt behavior as you understand it.

So, your government is very smart.

After wt PAF has done with J10C recently is not enough for CAC to get massive orders for the ac, Then theirs something wrong with the whole Chinese marketing process

 

[Michael]

After wt PAF has done with J10C recently is not enough for CAC to get massive orders for the ac, Then theirs something wrong with the whole Chinese marketing process

If you use Western logic to analyze the foreign trade activities of Chinese military enterprises, they do have serious problems.

If you use Chinese logic to analyze the foreign trade activities of Chinese military enterprises, they perform very well.

Unfortunately, it is difficult for you to think about this problem from their perspective.

 

[wanglaokan]

potential Buyers of J10ce: Egypt , Uzbekstan, Algeria, Bangladesh, Brazil....may be columbia