Fighter jet engine deal with India to start this year: GE Aerospace's Amy Gowder

[Nilgiri]

It ALWAYS is.
I can vouch for that from personal experience.

Heh,

Most my friends, barring very few (who can play at my level or better) dont play Poker with me anymore either as I take them to the cleaners consistently.

Its math probabilities, knowing your chip pile and their chip pile (and how chip sizes work and are to be leveraged with the time and situation given) and only then the associated extras (ability of reading others, disguising what they can read of you, managing risks and so on).

Lot of people frontload and focus on the latter bits, rather than getting good at the first bits....as the latter bits appeal to society gup shup and so on much more...its what percolates to movies and amateur social scene readily etc.

Hence they dont understand what good poker players have gotten good at early.

Just like people focus on "insufficient money" funding a program like there is some overabundance of HR to be easily fiscally steered by demand-pull alone.

But its only understood if you know the basics of the chip pile heft and what it dictates upstream and has shaped the downstream.

Exactly the king of thing HR is to any organisation of note. It also applies to other domains in the human realm.

Ike and Yamamoto were GREAT poker players for a reason heh. Ike picked up the game very early as a kid (even with his Quaker mom tut-tutting his time spent with the local illiterate "frontiersman" that taught him the tricks of the trade.... she would be even more disappointed later when he did the "Ma! its a college scholarship" for joining Westpoint against her explicit religious beliefs).

Yamamoto also picked Poker up with great skill apparently. Much later in age in his case compared to Ike....during his sojourns in the US to better finance his recon/understanding of the US and at relative ease too heh.

All things that would play large roles in their own impactful way when the war arrived, and its prioritizing and deploying of resources, tactics and strategies.

Best generals and admirals (poker enthusiasts or not) know how to work with what they have, intuitively grasp the realm of possibilities/probabilities and seek to defeat the opponents forces in detail rather than all at once for a reason.

Civilian peacetime correlation of this is how you deploy HR....to solve tasks sequentially and optimally (as much force concentration upon problems that have been split up and prioritized well), rather than spreading things too thin on everything and getting nowhere for what you put in.

Anyway a thread for maybe @VCheng @Oscar @Fatman17 and any others to peruse over as well.

 

[indushek]

I am posting this for others benefit mostly.

You seem to have some impression that India was some land of great milk and honey in the HR resources it had between 1950 - 2000 (that shape the downstream now).

If there was overabundance of 10 great teams of 1000 tier A folks each to deploy in 10 high-research areas....you have one situation for resource deployment.

Its very different situation if you dont have 10,000 to allocate into 10 teams though.

If you have say 1 or 2 magnitudes less at some prior snapshot of analysis, you face a prioritisation challenge given the scarcity.

With say an example of a scarce number being say 100 and already large list of projects to address at this realm (and the pressing purely civilian sector research areas)...do you take 10 projects and deploy 10 folks each?

Or do you take 4 projects and deploy 25 each. Or 2 with 50 each. Or the other (non equal) combinations.

The team sizes get additional scaled benefit sometimes (having 50 instead of 10 in a team often gets results much more than 5 times faster or better).

I work in this field. Its a large highway of a company but the HR is the core thing in the end.

Including the collectors upstream that fed into this highway long ago (the distributors today are a different subject altogether).

....i.e what Canada and US (HR tier A wise) had in say the 1950s snapshot.

Not to mention what they then pooled to augment this even further with say NORAD, NATO, the UK, France et al. Things simply unavailable to India at the time.

Lot of old names like Orenda that dont exist anymore (merged into the highway)....but were maybe at that time (or at least its major lab, which still exists somewhat disguised and distributed though) some kind of closer equivalency to GTRE today. To give you an idea of the relative IP+feedback bulk and basis upstream that forms the relevant institutional inertia scope and size today.

The point is there were many very other large highways here that didn't impose the scarcity-prioritisation situation in the degree India was staring at to allocate things.

There was little need to take away from nuclear weapons, missiles, space to then prop up jet engines, defence electronics, general aeronautics, general propulsion and so on....to mention just some large tier A fields and highways. It could all be done simultaneously when scarcity is not an issue in HR.

So if you have say time machine to go back in time and tell the powers that be in India that they are doing a lousy job allocating a full heavy percentage (of scarce HR) to nukes and the missile and space programs w.r.t IGMP (as to why these 3 were prioritised among some others instead of like 10 or 20 things all at once).... and not enough to jet engines and whatever else you have on the "why the hell is this workshare/stake on this specific thing just 11% today while we work on an alternative simultaneously" ....be my guest.

You hedge inertias of the options you have in the end. Every country did this and does this. The more you know how to work in this reality, the better things turn out.

Rather than extremity of "give me everything, I can't do it" dependency or "I'm the best, I can do absolutely everything myself from square one in record time and at nominal cost".

So in that time-traveller sojourn you will eventually (if someone in the know cares enough to explain it to you again, in case a few cups of Joe aren't to your taste) just get the same HR reasoning by people back then that know the actual situation in its inner onion layer.

i.e the basic Tier A RnD people to deploy (working with and prioritizing what you have) to then finance, further train and acquire equipment for.... understanding its best to get the first things prioritised and be competent enough at those first to then be able to move on to other things later. Rather than be jack of all trades and master of none downstream by spreading scarce qualitative things thin (losing out on crucial networking amplification that comes with consolidated team size).

Rather than other way around (e.g Western snapshot of the time)... where theres much more RnD people to begin with and you can finance many more things at once and tinker with fiscal steering among those....given the starting points, bulk and inertias here already.

It is all HR inertia defined, not "lack of money/whip/orange political admin" like there was some milk and honey abundance in HR in the prior years here.

You just didn't read my earlier posts (62 and 63) and understand the upstream at all....instead launching into more circular rote repetition.

I've seen this with the magic wand waving for Indian economy debate in the same period (1950 - 1990)...without a basic understanding of the nature of capital accumulation in the cold war setting, much less basic human resource development.

Don't you think that, once Kaveri got de-linked from Tejas program.. the funding and work shouldn't have completely stopped? (I mean I don't have any daily update of GTRE works but, for them to now start things again means.. no meaningful work was done for a decade)

Even if its meager, some work would have meant we could have been a bit ahead of current situation we are in.

 

[Fatman17]

Heh,

Most my friends, barring very few (who can play at my level or better) dont play Poker with me anymore either as I take them to the cleaners consistently.

Its math probabilities, knowing your chip pile and their chip pile (and how chip sizes work and are to be leveraged with the time and situation given) and only then the associated extras (ability of reading others, disguising what they can read of you, managing risks and so on).

Lot of people frontload and focus on the latter bits, rather than getting good at the first bits....as the latter bits appeal to society gup shup and so on much more...its what percolates to movies and amateur social scene readily etc.

Hence they dont understand what good poker players have gotten good at early.

Just like people focus on "insufficient money" funding a program like there is some overabundance of HR to be easily fiscally steered by demand-pull alone.

But its only understood if you know the basics of the chip pile heft and what it dictates upstream and has shaped the downstream.

Exactly the king of thing HR is to any organisation of note. It also applies to other domains in the human realm.

Ike and Yamamoto were GREAT poker players for a reason heh. Ike picked up the game very early as a kid (even with his Quaker mom tut-tutting his time spent with the local illiterate "frontiersman" that taught him the tricks of the trade.... she would be even more disappointed later when he did the "Ma! its a college scholarship" for joining Westpoint against her explicit religious beliefs).

Yamamoto also picked Poker up with great skill apparently. Much later in age in his case compared to Ike....during his sojourns in the US to better finance his recon/understanding of the US and at relative ease too heh.

All things that would play large roles in their own impactful way when the war arrived, and its prioritizing and deploying of resources, tactics and strategies.

Best generals and admirals (poker enthusiasts or not) know how to work with what they have, intuitively grasp the realm of possibilities/probabilities and seek to defeat the opponents forces in detail rather than all at once for a reason.

Civilian peacetime correlation of this is how you deploy HR....to solve tasks sequentially and optimally (as much force concentration upon problems that have been split up and prioritized well), rather than spreading things too thin on everything and getting nowhere for what you put in.

Anyway a thread for maybe @VCheng @Oscar @Fatman17 and any others to peruse over as well.

.
Poker was a highlight night during my uni days and later during my job in the USA .
5 card stud
7 card with jacks are wild or whatever.
Quarter ante
No chip or card calculation with me. As the game got deeper and the pot got heavier, l started to sweat and squirm in my seat. I would win some and lose more but they were always friendly games between buddies.
Great memories!

 

[UserUsing]

The Indian lobby is loudest and most influencial outside of the Jewish power...
Indian American business people have catapulted USA India strategic goals alignment to another level

India can pretty much get what it needs

Remember s400 sanctions noise from USA ...what happened nothing
Yet turkey got battered

Same with India buying russian oil at cheap prices ..noise from USA
What happened nothing

India as enormous clout with USA period

I love your confidence and enthusiasm! I hope Tejas can make it.. finally!

 

[Nilgiri]

Don't you think that, once Kaveri got de-linked from Tejas program.. the funding and work shouldn't have completely stopped? (I mean I don't have any daily update of GTRE works but, for them to now start things again means.. no meaningful work was done for a decade)

Even if its meager, some work would have meant we could have been a bit ahead of current situation we are in.

From what I understand, the issues (if you look at the high altitude test done with the Russian testbed) were deepset and were passed on to DMRL, Midhani et al....so the funding/progress followed over there. Then these revisit into Kaveri later.

The teams involved were too small and getting frontloaded by a number of problems all at once, these problems also cascade if you don't have the IP that nips it in the bud (this is the king of thing that more ToT can help immensely with now regd SAFRAN and GE, but have to see).

Rest would need a look at all their lab equipment and capital equipment etc and the QC achieved. But that's not in my purview to be able to do etc.

People always focus on things like single crystal (in the hot section), but there's a whole field of QC in bearings for example that are just as key (Pratt Whitney for example bought a large IP chunk from MTU in Germany in the 90s for that very reason, as large and experienced PW is in the field...it made no sense to reinvent wheel MTU had already). There is lot of transactions that go on like this between the large companies in general. The engines also get compared and contrasted in the MRO areas by airline technical staff etc so there is cross flow feedback that happens. This would happen in the military ecosystem for example as well if you have enough MRO you can do.

To this day GE maintains a sizeable lead over PW in the commercial engine sector in various key aspects because of research fork in road they picked better than PW did with lubrication oil line design and all kind of other seeming minutiae that add up in the end. A combination of all this stuff I mention.

 

[indushek]

From what I understand, the issues (if you look at the high altitude test done with the Russian testbed) were deepset and were passed on to DMRL, Midhani et al....so the funding/progress followed over there. Then these revisit into Kaveri later.

The teams involved were too small and getting frontloaded by a number of problems all at once, these problems also cascade if you don't have the IP that nips it in the bud (this is the king of thing that more ToT can help immensely with now regd SAFRAN and GE, but have to see).

Rest would need a look at all their lab equipment and capital equipment etc and the QC achieved. But that's not in my purview to be able to do etc.

People always focus on things like single crystal (in the hot section), but there's a whole field of QC in bearings for example that are just as key (Pratt Whitney for example bought a large IP chunk from MTU in Germany in the 90s for that very reason, as large and experienced PW is in the field...it made no sense to reinvent wheel MTU had already). There is lot of transactions that go on like this between the large companies in general. The engines also get compared and contrasted in the MRO areas by airline technical staff etc so there is cross flow feedback that happens. This would happen in the military ecosystem for example as well if you have enough MRO you can do.

To this day GE maintains a sizeable lead over PW in the commercial engine sector in various key aspects because of research fork in road they picked better than PW did with lubrication oil line design and all kind of other seeming minutiae that add up in the end. A combination of all this stuff I mention.

Your point about HR per se, is it kind of Men out of Men Money Material allocated for any project?

Yes from what I read from the engine threw blades, pointing towards Material science deficiency. Good thing is it did get sorted out, and last year or so the engine passed high altitude test. Wish they could build a test bed here, out of ageing IL 76 that we have.

Its the after burner that now needs work

West is way ahead on so many things, wonder how long we will take it narrow down this gap.

 

[VCheng]

Heh,

Most my friends, barring very few (who can play at my level or better) dont play Poker with me anymore either as I take them to the cleaners consistently.

Its math probabilities, knowing your chip pile and their chip pile (and how chip sizes work and are to be leveraged with the time and situation given) and only then the associated extras (ability of reading others, disguising what they can read of you, managing risks and so on).

Lot of people frontload and focus on the latter bits, rather than getting good at the first bits....as the latter bits appeal to society gup shup and so on much more...its what percolates to movies and amateur social scene readily etc.

Hence they dont understand what good poker players have gotten good at early.

Just like people focus on "insufficient money" funding a program like there is some overabundance of HR to be easily fiscally steered by demand-pull alone.

But its only understood if you know the basics of the chip pile heft and what it dictates upstream and has shaped the downstream.

Exactly the king of thing HR is to any organisation of note. It also applies to other domains in the human realm.

Ike and Yamamoto were GREAT poker players for a reason heh. Ike picked up the game very early as a kid (even with his Quaker mom tut-tutting his time spent with the local illiterate "frontiersman" that taught him the tricks of the trade.... she would be even more disappointed later when he did the "Ma! its a college scholarship" for joining Westpoint against her explicit religious beliefs).

Yamamoto also picked Poker up with great skill apparently. Much later in age in his case compared to Ike....during his sojourns in the US to better finance his recon/understanding of the US and at relative ease too heh.

All things that would play large roles in their own impactful way when the war arrived, and its prioritizing and deploying of resources, tactics and strategies.

Best generals and admirals (poker enthusiasts or not) know how to work with what they have, intuitively grasp the realm of possibilities/probabilities and seek to defeat the opponents forces in detail rather than all at once for a reason.

Civilian peacetime correlation of this is how you deploy HR....to solve tasks sequentially and optimally (as much force concentration upon problems that have been split up and prioritized well), rather than spreading things too thin on everything and getting nowhere for what you put in.

Anyway a thread for maybe @VCheng @Oscar @Fatman17 and any others to peruse over as well.

Great post for sure! But a topic the relevance of which to project management and national achievements is like trying to teach sedated beached whales the applications of advanced calculus for interplanetary satellite trajectories given PDF standards of typical discussions. Sadly.

 

[onlinpunit]

I do not know if sticks work in scientific learning. Unless one is interested you do not work in these fields. that is an ideal world

You don't really know indian Govt Sector industries !!

 

[nahtanbob]

You don't really know indian Govt Sector industries !!

Government run companies (not just India but all around the world) do not work in general. Is there anything else to know ?

 

[onlinpunit]

Government run companies (not just India but all around the world) do not work in general. Is there anything else to know ?

Thats why the Stick..!

 

[Developereo]

Thats why the Stick..!

And who is administering the stick?
Answer, another government department.

@nahtanbob is right. This is why most Western countries have private defence contractors who are guaranteed highway robbery profit margins. I don't know how the Chinese do it with state run enterprises but that would go off topic, so let it be.

 

[onlinpunit]

And who is administering the stick?
Answer, another government department.

A very simple solution..Perform or perish. No more govt bailout.
Before 90s india had so many public sector dodos surviving only on Govt doles. Not anymore.

 

[Fatman17]

A very simple solution..Perform or perish. No more govt bailout.
Before 90s india had so many public sector dodos surviving only on Govt doles. Not anymore.

We should learn from India on this particular topic

 

[Fatman17]

USA is All-In on India to use as bulwark against China and All-In on EU and NATO as bulwark against Russia . This is the New Cold War.

 

[harpy1]

I love your confidence and enthusiasm! I hope Tejas can make it.. finally!

Are you kidding me

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