From Absolutely Not to America Please?

[dabbu]

Conversation or not, boy but that parsi did enter into the heart and soul of Jinnahs Pakistan on a cold December night, forever changing the course of history.

Any Pakistani trying to claim that feat will always be a remora-esque character, attaching himself to a failure to deny more worthy men of their success.

How could anyone imagine thousand rupees would change history.

This is some imagination. Creation of Bangladesh is either attributed to ambition of a Pakistani or lack thereof of other. Nowhere does the Parsi enter the conversation.

 

[El Sidd]

Conversation or not, boy but that parsi did enter into the heart and soul of Jinnahs Pakistan on a cold December night, forever changing the course of history.

Any Pakistani trying to claim that feat will always be a remora-esque character, attaching himself to a failure to deny more worthy men of their success.

How could anyone imagine thousand rupees would change history.

Forget about Pakistanis, Indians don't thank the Parsi refugee either. They insist that Bangladesh came about due to failure of Pakistan not success of India.

 

[dabbu]

Forget about Pakistanis, Indians don't thank the Parsi refugee either. They insist that Bangladesh came about due to failure of Pakistan not success of India.

Now now, Let's not be dishonest to ourselves now shall we?

Take an example now, of how india mistreated* that Parsi general, responsible for creating the most successful south asian muslim country, rewarding him with that stick and rank that doesn't salute any political rank, and Pakistan recently bestowed the same on the current Field marshal, for creating - nothing.

 

[El Sidd]

Now now, Let's not be dishonest to ourselves now shall we?

Take an example now, of how india mistreated* that Parsi general, responsible for creating the most successful south asian muslim country, rewarding him with that stick and rank that doesn't salute any political rank, and Pakistan recently bestowed the same on the current Field marshal, for creating - nothing.

This will always be propaganda unless Indians and Bangladeshis become honest to that Parsi refugee. As of now the alleged most successful south asian country and her citizens are called cockroaches and treated as sub-humans by the host of that Parsi refugee.

Pakistan has a field marshal because she successfully fought a defensive war.

 

[dabbu]

This will always be propaganda unless Indians and Bangladeshis become honest to that Parsi refugee. As of now the alleged most successful south asian country and her citizens are called cockroaches and treated as sub-humans by the host of that Parsi refugee.

Pakistan has a field marshal because she successfully fought a defensive war.

Manekshaw was never a refugee, his 10+ generation ancestors were, around 8th century, when they brought the ahura mazda across stormy oceans to India- as a gift to Indians.

Not that the Bahadur needed to, for us he is a son of the soil, but he made us natives and the world indebted forever, by repaying for the atrocities committed on his and our people.

In that being the case, us natives are grateful to him forever for repelling the threat his ancestors already had passed down to them.

 

[dabbu]

Pakistan has a field marshal because she successfully fought a defensive war.

"Defensive war"- sounds a lot like a capitulating leader would trump up.

Fwiw, IK is still a bigger man and holds respect in any Indians eyes, not only for his 1992 heroics but much later too.

 

[El Sidd]

Might be cringe if untrue, it is not.

Fyi parsis chose india over foreign conquests by escaping persia to indian as a safe haven, and have flourished there.

The concept of Pakistan at that time was 7 centuries away, so let's not be cringe making it about a late late 1947 Pakistan.

I like how there was an India before 1947 where Persians fled as refugee

Manekshaw was never a refugee, his 10+ generation ancestors were, around 8th century, when they brought the ahura mazda across stormy oceans to India- as a gift to Indians.

Not that the Bahadur needed to, for us he is a son of the soil, but he made us natives and the world indebted forever, by repaying for the atrocities committed on his and our people.

In that being the case, us natives are grateful to him forever for repelling the threat his ancestors already had passed down to them.

What threat? Threat to caste and race based society from what?

"Defensive war"- sounds a lot like a capitulating leader would trump up.

Fwiw, IK is still a bigger man and holds respect in any Indians eyes, not only for his 1992 heroics but much later too.

Those who are not respected anywhere can respect anything, doesn't make a difference at all.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

If you recall, I argued for a hybrid system many years ago on PDF, asking for a proper formalized way where three portfolios are military personnel: foreign, finance and defence, and the rest with the civilian side. That is the only way existing realities can be accepted while maintaining a workable, legal system with proper accountability.

yes I recall that. I was expecting a challenge and criticism for suggesting anything different to the spirit of Western democracy.

my post you quoted was a lazy one and I didn't clarify that I am being a realist (as I define it) that a true democracy is incompatible within Pakistani mindset. every party has examples of nepotism & narcotism demanding absolute devotion al loyalty of the dear leader and revenge politics.

Every single political party is run like a dictatorship and there only difference from the GHQ is that they don't wear uniforms and don't have as many men with guns than the 111 Brigade. so lets just drop the act and work out a system which brings stability, political stability, economic stability and security. A system where establishment and politicians compliment each other and there is a set and agreed system of cooperation and succession.

where no populist party (in opposition) has to bribe senators in America and use cash of their property tycoons to buy millions of dollars of advert space on print and electronic media to crap on Pakistani military.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

we are absolutely fit for democracy , it was what Quaid-e-Azam wanted and if the 1973 constitution had been followed in letter and spirit, and political culture and institutions allowed to evolve and mature, Pakistan would have been infinitely better off today.

I dont know how anyone after failed Zia, Musharraf and multiple hybrid nizams still clings to the technocrat savior nonsense.

Countries far less developed than Pakistan have managed to build democratic system of government and are doing much better today, I dont know why people think Pakistanis are some sort of abnormal beings that they can only thrive under a benevolent autocracy.

yea there is an issue I see, we are tribal in nature, we glorify our sardars who butcher their opponents and bed the women of their enemies. every single political leader is a sad vengeful psychopaths, has utter disdain for his political opponents and if he is opposition then he sees everything under Gods sky to be a fault of GHQ but if that same person is in power then he is on the "same page" .

comparing the current political leaderships of all parties with Qaid e Azam idea of democracy is as absurd as comparing bannu Umayat and Banu Abbas kings as our our first 4 Rashida Caliphs.

 

[Watandar]

yea there is an issue I see, we are tribal in nature, we glorify our sardars who butcher their opponents and bed the women of their enemies. every single political leader is a sad vengeful psychopaths, has utter disdain for his political opponents and if he is opposition then he sees everything under Gods sky to be a fault of GHQ but if that same person is in power then he is on the "same page" .

comparing the current political leaderships of all parties with Qaid e Azam idea of democracy is as absurd as comparing bannu Umayat and Banu Abbas kings as our our first 4 Rashida Caliphs.

How many politicians in Pakistan are actually guilty of butchering their opponents and bedding their women ? A few indeed could be guilty of this and if they are stil running free ,its because of their links to autocrats. I dont see how that discredits democracy in Pakistan.

I also mentioned the evolution and eventual maturity of the political system if its simply allowed to run its course. If that process can work in many other countries, including those with strong tribal cultures such as in Africa, why cannot it work in Pakistan ? Of course it can.

 

[VCheng]

so lets just drop the act and work out a system which brings stability, political stability, economic stability and security. A system where establishment and politicians compliment each other and there is a set and agreed system of cooperation and succession.

I agree with the above sentiments whole heartedly, but the problem is that none of the stakeholders see it that way as being beneficial for everyone in the long run. Nothing is likely to progress this vision as long as they all remain so myopic.

 

[Path-Finder]

I have lost count how many times I have criticized the revenge politics and political punishments of individuals and parties. I was supporter / voter of PTI when it came to power, sadly it did exactly what it blamed other parties. despite that, I believe that Imran Khan's incarceration is a political vendetta and even if the charges were valid, he has served his time. but then again he is in the game of thrones and in this game there is no runner up. Had he and his choice of General(s) Faiz etc. succeeded then this forum might have been spammed by PTI praise for the Pakistan army.

the point I highlighted is a tough one and cant be ignored because PTI has sold itself as the only majority political party that has more followers online and on the roads compared to other regional and national parties. YET, its social media activities and its lobbying in the west specially in America goes completely against the letter and spirit on what it stands for.

We are not slaves and ABSOLUTELY NOT- was its rallying cry and the catch phrase, but its actions in the country and abroad have not always been inline with whatever it sold to PTI zealots.

these are uncomfortable truths and facts and cant be dispelled by whataboutism on other political parties. and cursing the military leadership.

I wont press on it and will leave it just there.

yea lets not **** foot about I remember the way members on previous forum showed their true colours. The way they were polishing the boots of their bandmasters and it included yourself!

You are making threads on behalf of them, we know. But these are sadly the uncomfortable truths that we see before us.

How a mad scummy now gone predecessor bandmaster was colluding with Donald Lu to overthrow a government through the alluding hussain haqqani previously declared a traitor but now onboard. this lobbying is of course kosher! God Forbid others do any lobbying in the realm where puppet master pulls the string.

Absolutely not had khaki dawning honchos colluding with their puppet master. That is kosher ofcourse. Its been like this since gora sahib was replaced with kala sahib. 1947 we had independence from Britain but kala sahib brought us a new master.

And seldom shell we forget that until 1971 we were East & West Pakistan! Till this day the truth of that event has been kept under the wraps and brushed under the rug.

Truth is that the ones called others corrupt and made corruption charges are the biggest corrupters, with no end in sight. We were led to believe that meen ji and zardari are mahan naag of corruption but truth be told they steal one ATM at best compared to the conglomerate that holds the nation hostage and says it knows whats best.

Today people of the nation are not with your games. That's why rigging of the ballot which has always happened by now its become so absurd that it along with all other crimes are no longer done behing the scenes but out in the open.

 

[gamaji]

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[dabbu]

I like how there was an India before 1947 where Persians fled as refugee

The insinuation being what…?

As a random inconsequential observer here, you seem to point towards the trope that somehow the Indian entity did not exist before your defined timeline of 1947, is that so?