TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[Aziqbal]

Rafale uses a lower end AESA tech based on GaAS (Gallium Arsenide). This was the first gen AESA tech. Has much higher energy requirements for long range scan and due to working in dense electromagnetic environment.

Then there is the next generation, or Gen-2 of AESA, US uses it also on F-35 and F-22. It's called GaN or Gallium Nitride. Much faster processing capability of data compared to Gen-1 in Rafale's AESA. Much less power needs, nearly total resistant to Jamming. Can't burn out its TR's with Microwave energy as they are super heat resistant. Plus lots of expansion can happen in this tech. Glad to see Turkey use it.

Latest, or Gen-3 tech in AESA is SiC (Silicon Carbide), this is top secret stuff ONLY used in Chinese J-35 and J-20 stealth jets. This technology is 100% faster than the above GaN for KAAN, but near a thousand times faster and better than what's in Rafale's AESA (GaAS). So Turkey is on the same level as US in AESA tech.

China does not use Gallium Carbide

the latest technology in semi conductors is not even GaO

its GaNOI and China recently announced a new break through making a 8 inch N-polar GaNOI wafer

and another breakthrough produced 8kw Vertical heterojunction rectifier

Chinese are around 1-2 generations in semi conductors compared to Americans

 

[Aziqbal]

USA blocked sale of UCAVs to Turkiye
and Turkiye was become Drone super power in the world with its UCAVs TB-2/3, ANKA , AKSUNGUR , AKINCI , KIZILELMA , ANKA-3

USA blocked sale of PATRIOT to Turkiye
Turkiye was become 3rd country in NATO with its own layered Air Defense Systems KORKUT , SUNGUR , GURZ , GOKDEMIR , HISAR-A/O and SIPER


------------------------

Sooner or later Turkiye will finish the KAAN with TF-35.000 Engine

but we needs minimum 7 years

This is a struggle for independence And of course it takes years , we will continue to fight with determination and reach the final goal.

Only USA and China ( WS-15 ) did it in the World
also Russia is coming with 37.500 lbf AL-51F1 turbofan Engine

Turkiye will be the 4th Country in the world with TF-35.000 engine

Turkey will sell drones to US ?

US will hand it to Israel

then in the future when Turkey is strong and they try to fight Israel they will be defeated

Turkey should not be so dumb and stupid like Arabs

 

[MMM-E]

How much power would the Murad-110a radar for the F-16 require, with how many T/R modules and at what performance (against a 1m^2 target like a Rafale with A2A missiles)?

RAFALE's RBE2 AESA Radar with 838 GaAs T/R modules
and detect 1m2 RCS target from 110-130 km away

MURAD-110 AESA Radar with 1.152 GaN T/R modules which has twice the sending and receiving capacity of the GaAS based AESA Radars


and produced with 100% national resources, from chip level to final system integration

 

[FuturePAF]

RAFALE's RBE2 AESA Radar with 838 GaAs T/R modules
and detect 1m2 RCS target from 110-130 km away

MURAD-110 AESA Radar with 1.152 GaN T/R modules which has twice the sending and receiving capacity of the GaAS based AESA Radars


and produced with 100% national resources, from chip level to final system integration
View attachment 150002

So detection range for the Murad 110 for a 1m^2 target should be 200 km?

Also how much electrical power does the Murad 110 require?

 

[Oublious]

So detection range for the Murad 110 for a 1m^2 target should be 200 km?

Also how much electrical power does the Murad 110 require?

200 km is against a Fighter seize, not bs specs like others give like 300km, the radar have more then 300km range. With Max range you can spot a jumbojet but not fighters, so 200km is a honest specs given by Aselsan. What power it require is not given.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

200 km is against a Fighter seize, not bs specs like others give like 300km, the radar have more then 300km range. With Max range you can spot a jumbojet but not fighters, so 200km is a honest specs given by Aselsan. What power it require is not given.

Better to keep the power ratings secret. Folks can backtrack it to get an an understanding of GaN devices structural design....

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

If you don't think China will not sell it, you don't understand Pakistan's pull with China. Let Pakistan help you.


I've suggested above the same, get AL series engines. But the Turkish member said it was impossible due to NATO vs. Russia issue. That's a valid argument.

Now on China and Turkey and the middle east. Pakistan does have a lot of sway with China. To not understand it, is silly. I mentioned that Pakistan wants to get an engine for itself to power off its future jets under PFX program. If Turkey comes in, both nations can get say WS-10 TOT, it will cost less also because two nations are buying the TOT vs. 1. So it's beneficial from all sides. But the Turkish members don't like that idea and they think with magic, the TF35000 will work. You have to get TOT from some place. US won't give you those nor will the French. Russia is NATO's enemy. That leaves you with a Pakistani option (WS-10) so you don't upset NATO directly dealing with China for it.

Emotions and reality are two very different worlds.

If engines are procured from China and its integration job is done under the Pak supervision the KAAN would be more like a TFX-PFX combo project....

 

[FuturePAF]

200 km is against a Fighter seize, not bs specs like others give like 300km, the radar have more then 300km range. With Max range you can spot a jumbojet but not fighters, so 200km is a honest specs given by Aselsan. What power it require is not given.

I‘M actually asking for the generator power specs, because @MMM-E gave the generator power specs for the other Turkish radar.

“KAAN: 2x125Kw .... 250 kw (developed by Turkish company VOLT )”

Can the Murad 110 get to 200 km against a 1m^2 with a single 125 kw generator from the Turkish company Volt? So that we know how much the PAF would need to modified the F-16s to accommodate this radar?

If you ask Google, the AI response will say the Block 72 F-16 has a 200 KW electrical generator, but without an open public reference, even though it is technically unclassified.

 

[RajaBaja]

China does not use Gallium Carbide

the latest technology in semi conductors is not even GaO

its GaNOI and China recently announced a new break through making a 8 inch N-polar GaNOI wafer

and another breakthrough produced 8kw Vertical heterojunction rectifier

Chinese are around 1-2 generations in semi conductors compared to Americans

Sorry that was probably a typing mistake. Read my other posts for a reference, it's not Gallium Carbide, it's SILICON Carbide (SiC). That's the latest technology baseline that's already implemented in Chinese stealth platforms. I have a document, the following are from that:

"The J-20 has tripled its radar detection range owing to advances in silicon carbide (SiC) semiconductors, developed by China's Shandong University scientist Xu Xiangang and his team"

China is a WHOLE generation ahead of the rest of the world in critical technologies. The US, Turkey are on Gallium Nitride (Gen-2) and the French are in Gallium Arsenide (Gen-1).

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[RajaBaja]

If engines are procured from China and its integration job is done under the Pak supervision the KAAN would be more like a TFX-PFX combo project....

We do have over 200 aviation engineers supporting Turkey in this project. The project director as well as Turkish defense chief has thanked Pakistan openly for providing the labor to fast track development of various components, especially the software for KAAN's functions.

So in theory it may already be a joint project. I guess the government of Pakistan can officially pay into it and make it official. But I think the highest priority right now should be to help solve Turkiye's engine issue and keep this project going.

 

[Eşbah]

Nothing has really changed. The main difference is that some people have just come to realize that the US can easily put us in a tough spot if they choose to. They cannot stop but delay KAAN if they want to do so.

I really don’t get the fuss going on right now.

Congress has blocked the engine delivery, which we all expected. This is not breaking news.

In fact, Trump said that he is against this blockade.

Erdoğan got the go-ahead from Washington to take action in the SDF-controlled areas in Syria and received a commitment from Trump to work on lifting the embargo, which made Erdoğan openly state that his visit was very successful.

The embargo isn’t something new; it was obvious from the very start. Currently, KAAN is still progressing; the engines for the prototypes are already in Ankara. Testing will commence as scheduled.

CAATSA is still active, and the US government can’t approve military engine exports to Türkiye since we are still under sanctions.

If anything, the opposite of what people are saying has occurred here. We’re actually one step closer to being freed from CAATSA restrictions.

People need to understand the process.

The current situation will only be painful for us if CAATSA won't be lifted in the coming months.

 

[RajaBaja]

What I’m implying is that, from the point of view of the Chinese, it’s in their best interest that both the PFX and the TAI Kaan to never, “take off”, figuratively and literally. It is in China’s interest for Pakistan and its military to be well-equipped to balance India, but otherwise more or less dependent on Chinese exports and revolving around its geopolitical agenda.

For Pakistan, China is interested in keeping its military well-equipped, but for Pakistan to have its own indigenous capability to design, develop, produce, improve, and eventually compete with Chinese arms export and thus geopolitical influence via security guarantee, while cooperating with another aspiring regional power that potentially could become a competitor or even rival, is a whole other story.

That's the American way of thinking. That's also why you are losing nation's interest in strategic aligning with you.

China is a mature nation. It leads you to water so you can drink it on your own. It doesn't give you a glass of water alone so you could never find where the water is. It has enabled Pakistan and many other nations. Pakistan today, produces about 75% of it's army's defense equipment through locally TOT based products.

China doesn't want Pakistan to be "dependent" on them. If that was the case, they'd have shoved the J-10's down our throats when we wanted to build the JF-17's ourselves. Even then, they've been asking us to make setups faster so we can assemble 100% of it ourselves.

JF-17's main issue was Chinese engine. That problem has been solved and its B version is flying with a WS-10 version. So Pakistan will get an engine with TOT regardless for it's future local platforms under PFX. So if this helps solve Pakistan and Turkey, two nation's problems, I think China won't mind it. This situation actually makes Turkish defense industry their client.

 

[royalharris]

Selling WS10C engines to Turkey is completely inconsistent with China's geostrategic interests, let alone the TOT issue.

China considers Pakistan a partner, supported it during the Indo-Pakistani War, and tacitly endorsed Pakistan's military alliance with Saudi Arabia because these actions serve the interests of both China and Pakistan.

While Pakistani netizens may be enthusiastic, Pakistani generals and senior officials will not be so arrogant as to disregard China's interests and export WS10C engines to Turkey unless Turkey offers China an offer it cannot refuse.

 

[jamal18]

So Pakistan will get an engine with TOT regardless for it's future local platforms under PFX.

Are you sure? This is such expensive technology I just can't see China simply handing it over. Reliable source?

 

[RajaBaja]

RAFALE's RBE2 AESA Radar with 838 GaAs T/R modules
and detect 1m2 RCS target from 110-130 km away

MURAD-110 AESA Radar with 1.152 GaN T/R modules which has twice the sending and receiving capacity of the GaAS based AESA Radars


and produced with 100% national resources, from chip level to final system integration
View attachment 150002

In my prior posts, I've already told you that Turkey is advanced in this sense than French / NATO and on the same standards as the US F-22 and F-35. Excellent progress.