Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

There are many posters who have been claiming that Pakistan displayed restraint.
It is not a wrong statement, because had there been not restraint, ballistic missiles may have been flying across with involvement of army as well as the navy.
But, this statement is being made as if the restraint was displayed from a position of strength. That is where this observation is wrong.
Restraint was displayed by India too. The reasons are same as written above.
When the claims of so called restraint are made, both the defence forces were firing a certain types of weapons to show resolve and capability without making it too big to avoid escalation.
Pakistan was primarily firing barrages of Fatah, artillery and limited CM400 against high value targets. India was firing Brahmos, Scalp and few other precision long range weapons.
That is when a cessation of operations happened.

How effective were the strikes by Pakistan?
The answer is -pretty ineffective.
There are claims against S400 and a C2 centre. The damage is claimed on the basis of contradictory statements by defence chiefs.

A S400 transmitter is bound to be picked up by sensors from, across and the deployment philosophy is bound to be based on this fact. Whether, it moved away by the time strike came in or it was addressed by AD is a moot point.

Fatah was the primary weapon and apart from smoke rising from the IAF bases there is nothing else to show for its success. Whether they were addressed by IAF AD or they were inherently inaccurate can’t be the basis of their success. They failed to cause detectable damage to any Indian assets at any place. It’s a Pak failure and not display of restraint.

It was Pakistan’s job to test the Indian AD and punch holes in it by striking targets with proof and showing that Indian AD is as bad as theirs. If Indian AD wasn’t tested to it’s limits isn’t Indian fault.

So the claims of restraint by Pakistan aren’t from a position of strength but from a position where it was at the receiving end of pin point accurate Indian strikes.

Pakistan was in a position where its main weapon of choice was found severely lacking in impact. Pakistan failed to identify this and make any changes while India did exactly that after pounding they got on 07 May.

True sense of restraint was visible from Indian side. Side that was striking across entire Pakistan at will and accurately. It had the option of increasing the scale of same weapons and strike many more places or saturate few high value targets and cause much more damage. But it didn’t.

However, it decided to carry out symbolic strikes all across to drive home the point and displayed true sense of restraint.

Even if we assume S400 moved just in time - If all 4 CM400s fell exactly where PAF intended to - then that itself is one strong message as well just like Pakistan got a strong message after getting accurate hits from indian side - how long will you play that game of cat and mouse? - shifting and relocating assets - goes for both sides.

Fatah performed poor - and i agree - the game changer was SSM BrahMos in comparison to Fatah System.
 
Even if we assume S400 moved just in time - If all 4 CM400s fell exactly where PAF intended to - then that itself is one strong message as well just like Pakistan got a strong message after getting accurate hits from indian side - how long will you play that game of cat and mouse? - shifting and relocating assets - goes for both sides.

Fatah performed poor - and i agree - the game changer was SSM BrahMos in comparison to Fatah System.
May you elaborate why Fatah system performed poorly?

If anything it displayed Pakistan's ability to respond conventionally ( albeit at that point in time before creation of ARFC)
 
There are many posters who have been claiming that Pakistan displayed restraint.
It is not a wrong statement, because had there been not restraint, ballistic missiles may have been flying across with involvement of army as well as the navy.
But, this statement is being made as if the restraint was displayed from a position of strength. That is where this observation is wrong.
Restraint was displayed by India too. The reasons are same as written above.
When the claims of so called restraint are made, both the defence forces were firing a certain types of weapons to show resolve and capability without making it too big to avoid escalation.
Pakistan was primarily firing barrages of Fatah, artillery and limited CM400 against high value targets. India was firing Brahmos, Scalp and few other precision long range weapons.
That is when a cessation of operations happened.

How effective were the strikes by Pakistan?
The answer is -pretty ineffective.
There are claims against S400 and a C2 centre. The damage is claimed on the basis of contradictory statements by defence chiefs.

A S400 transmitter is bound to be picked up by sensors from, across and the deployment philosophy is bound to be based on this fact. Whether, it moved away by the time strike came in or it was addressed by AD is a moot point.

Fatah was the primary weapon and apart from smoke rising from the IAF bases there is nothing else to show for its success. Whether they were addressed by IAF AD or they were inherently inaccurate can’t be the basis of their success. They failed to cause detectable damage to any Indian assets at any place. It’s a Pak failure and not display of restraint.

It was Pakistan’s job to test the Indian AD and punch holes in it by striking targets with proof and showing that Indian AD is as bad as theirs. If Indian AD wasn’t tested to it’s limits isn’t Indian fault.

So the claims of restraint by Pakistan aren’t from a position of strength but from a position where it was at the receiving end of pin point accurate Indian strikes.

Pakistan was in a position where its main weapon of choice was found severely lacking in impact. Pakistan failed to identify this and make any changes while India did exactly that after pounding they got on 07 May.

True sense of restraint was visible from Indian side. Side that was striking across entire Pakistan at will and accurately. It had the option of increasing the scale of same weapons and strike many more places or saturate few high value targets and cause much more damage. But it didn’t.

However, it decided to carry out symbolic strikes all across to drive home the point and displayed true sense of restraint.

missile homing in at its target, where is your AD, jet shot the missile and AD ran for cover. Is this a bloody joke!

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Arguing with you it feels like the point is not to make you understand the matter but to argue about how you won the argument — or that you were already the winner.

And our job is just to onlny prove that you havve won. What kind of ignorant, showy, deceitful argumentation is this?

Hey you ignoramus, when your planes were being show down on May 7 where was your air defence (AD) - so the canny reluctance to accept any jet losses? And there are videos showing black smoke rising from your bases.

do you even know why black smoke rises?!!! Even if we grant you that the strikes were ineffective, son, with the S-400 in place how did the ‘rockets’ manage to penetrate the airspace?

40680, unanswered still!




@harpy1
@Raj-Hindustani
@CallSignMaverick
@vasanthm
@Vishnu Hypersonic Cruise
 
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Some members should watch this video are atleast parts of it especially in light of the recent volatile situation in AJK

Why don't you just start posting videos of Shehbaz Gill as reference as well.

The only difference is the language spoken, that's it.
 
then that itself is one strong message as well just like Pakistan got a strong message after getting accurate hits from indian side
Yes. No doubts about that. I am wondering, why wasn’t it used against more targets? Just like Brahmos, Scalp and others by India.
Was it less in numbers and hence a very selective approach for an escalating situation? Or some other consideration.
I wouldn’t question the planners here, which was PAF in this case since they are very good at what they do and must have worked it out before deciding.

CM400 class of weapon is extremely difficult to neutralise. Any more numbers, IAF AD could have been exposed as was the case for the other side. It might have been lucky for India but the other side gave this chance of being lucky, while it could have turned it into a nightmare. And it wasn’t out of kindheartedness and restraint.
 
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Yes. No doubts about that. I am wondering, why wasn’t it used against more targets? Just like Brahmos, Scalp and others by India.
Was it less in numbers and hence a very selective approach for an escalating situation? Or some other consideration.
I wouldn’t question the planners here, which was PAF in this case since they are very good at what they do and must have worked it out before deciding.

CM400 class of weapon is extremely difficult to neutralise. Any more numbers, IAF AD could have been exposed as was the case for the other side. It might have been lucky for India but the other side gave this chance of being lucky, while it could have turned it into a nightmare. And it wasn’t out of kindheartedness and restraint.

PAF did launch more stuff from air apart from CM400s, though - as i have already stated somewhere earlier.

Defeating a strong AD network isn't just all about launching your best weapon - it's more about complicating the situation enough for the other AD to make them prioritise the targets.

India certainly had two advantages:
1. Better AD Systems and more in numbers
2. Bigger arsenal of their best weapons i.e BrahMos.

So, India didn't have a problem launching about 40-50 of their best weapons - and they certainly didn't care about 'graduality' in the escalation ladder - now, of these 40-50, less than Half actually made it - honestly i am surprised at our ability to counter more than half.

For Pakistan, it didn't have these advantages - so more selective approach in using the best -- while complicating the situation for indian AD through other means - Baburs and RA'AD were reserved for strategic purposes - lesson learnt - The answer is rocket force command armed with missiles designated for conventional purposes.
 
Why don't you just start posting videos of Shehbaz Gill as reference as well.

The only difference is the language spoken, that's it.
Exactly english language means authentic and logical analysis. What a mindset. This guy once claimed our army like sten gun more than g3. Because one soldier said so.
 
There are many posters who have been claiming that Pakistan displayed restraint.
It is not a wrong statement, because had there been not restraint, ballistic missiles may have been flying across with involvement of army as well as the navy.
But, this statement is being made as if the restraint was displayed from a position of strength. That is where this observation is wrong.
Restraint was displayed by India too. The reasons are same as written above.
When the claims of so called restraint are made, both the defence forces were firing a certain types of weapons to show resolve and capability without making it too big to avoid escalation.
Pakistan was primarily firing barrages of Fatah, artillery and limited CM400 against high value targets. India was firing Brahmos, Scalp and few other precision long range weapons.
That is when a cessation of operations happened.

How effective were the strikes by Pakistan?
The answer is -pretty ineffective.
There are claims against S400 and a C2 centre. The damage is claimed on the basis of contradictory statements by defence chiefs.

A S400 transmitter is bound to be picked up by sensors from, across and the deployment philosophy is bound to be based on this fact. Whether, it moved away by the time strike came in or it was addressed by AD is a moot point.

Fatah was the primary weapon and apart from smoke rising from the IAF bases there is nothing else to show for its success. Whether they were addressed by IAF AD or they were inherently inaccurate can’t be the basis of their success. They failed to cause detectable damage to any Indian assets at any place. It’s a Pak failure and not display of restraint.

It was Pakistan’s job to test the Indian AD and punch holes in it by striking targets with proof and showing that Indian AD is as bad as theirs. If Indian AD wasn’t tested to it’s limits isn’t Indian fault.

So the claims of restraint by Pakistan aren’t from a position of strength but from a position where it was at the receiving end of pin point accurate Indian strikes.

Pakistan was in a position where its main weapon of choice was found severely lacking in impact. Pakistan failed to identify this and make any changes while India did exactly that after pounding they got on 07 May.

True sense of restraint was visible from Indian side. Side that was striking across entire Pakistan at will and accurately. It had the option of increasing the scale of same weapons and strike many more places or saturate few high value targets and cause much more damage. But it didn’t.

However, it decided to carry out symbolic strikes all across to drive home the point and displayed true sense of restraint.
Why did India launch a barrage of Brahmos to strike Pakistan’s military installations after they had “successfully” targeted the “terrorist camps” and that Operation Sindoor was a such great success for them. Why such a big reaction after 2 days of a successful operation? Your whole point of “India showed restraint from a position of strength” is void. The whole point of operation sindoor was to target “terrorrists” only and not Pakistan Military yet they did. Why?? What happened in those 2 days? I’ll tell you why. PAF gave you the spanking of your life which you will not forget so easily. After being caught off guard and losing face in the air, you didn’t want to risk another direct fight. Instead firing long range missiles from a safe distance just to save face and show some kind of strength after getting pushed back.
How is that a position of strenght.
 
Bro has serious integrity issues - as had Mr. BS Dhanoa - Both knew they didn’t shoot shit - yet lied through teeth.
I am seeing a shift in international analysts tone towards india. People who used to say they are an established transparent democracy are now seeing this and realizing their understanding of india was not accurate.

It will harm india in all its stances.
 

AK630 will be procured and deployed at the border by India under the Sudarshan Chakra project.

It's Soviet era tech but against drones it's perfect. Cheap bullets and can be made in masse.
 

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