PN MPA: Sea Eagle RAS ATR-72 - Discussion & Updates

[Joe Shearer]

Any possibility of them being incorporated from retired orions ?


Babu mentality? Yeah we have plenty of those SOB's too.

You mean disassemble them from old laid up Orions?
That would depend.
They may have demolished those aircraft.
Second, those are type-specific. If any Orions are left in working order, it might be attempted to retrieve the apparatus and fit it onto a new 737 fuselage. Would it work? Perhaps, but I wouldn't get into the plane. The last time this was tried, they built a radome onto a new Avro fuselage. That was for the old ASWAC project. It was not a good decision. The aerodynamics proved to be faulty. The plane crashed and killed several engineers on board.

Not a good idea.

 

[CSAW]

" Pakistan Navy had officially inducted 5th ATR-72-500
Turboprop Maritime Patrol Aircraft this month, as a replacement of Pakistan Navy's Fokker F-27. Hence equipped Primarily with an ASW capability But without MAD.



These MPA Sea Eagle Assets in conjunction with LRMPA Sea Sultan on Brazilian Embraer-1000E Lineage Platform with Hardware / Systems from Leonrado Electronics & Paramount Group, will replace legacy Orions as well as future maritime requirements.



RAS-72 Sea Eagles are equipped with Italian Leonardo Sea Spray 7500E AESA Radar.



The ability to rapidly interleave modes enables effective operation in the most complex environments including littoral scenarios.



The AESA radar equipped platform is becoming the Force Commander’s ISR asset of choice,bringing a huge step change in both capability and reliability.





AESA technology and flexible waveform generation enables delivery of peak performance in all modes. Using multiple low power, solid state Transmit/Receive Modules (TRM) the Sea spray 7500E is inherently more reliable than legacy mechanically-scanned radar systems.



The improved Seaspray 7500E radar modes are implemented in software within the enhanced Radar processor. New developments to GMTI, Spot/Strip SAR,ISAR and Air-Surveillance modes provide true multi-domain capability, including exceptional detection performance of small maritime targets in high clutter environments.



Processor enhancements allow for a significant increase int he number of targets tracked over previous variants, whilst supporting both automatic and manual track initiation.

The system has SAR and Inverse SAR Modes Sub Meter Resolution, Excellent MTI / GMTI Modes. With FLIR STAR SAFIRE 380 HD EO / IR Turret with 3-05 micron m Mid Wave Ifra Red MWIR Camera , A NIR Camera forms a highly efficient system for Clutter environment."





New Version is 7500 V2.

https://electronics.leonardo.com/documents/16277707/18422005/Seaspray+7500E+V2+HQ+%28mm09072%29.pdf?t=1693492257401

 

[Quwa]

As a report, this is excellent, and identifies a major development and a major capability enhancement.

To an Indian, this is thought-provoking. The Pakistani military in general has shown a great deal of maturity in taking weapons system decisions that are affordable and yet effective. The equivalent Indian route, the P8i route, is known enough not to require to be dragged out, dusted off and paraded; this present seems to be a cost-effective and satisficing solution.

The PN likely wanted the P-8, but big-ticket systems from the US were/are a no-go.

The MPA market is a little strange in that there aren't many options aside from the P-8 and Boeing is running away with the P-3 replacement market.

Europe hasn't gotten together to make an alternative, surprisingly enough, and (aside from Japan's P-1) there's no other option that can fill the capability gaps from retiring the Orion.

However, with the PN unable to buy the P-8, but still having a requirement to replace the P-3Cs, I believe several OEMs emerged willing to offer -- and possibly even co-pay the R&D for -- original solutions. For example, Leonardo and Paramount Group are working on the Embraer Lineage 1000E-based Sea Sultan LRMPA for the PN.

 

[Falcon26]

" Pakistan Navy had officially inducted 5th ATR-72-500
Turboprop Maritime Patrol Aircraft this month, as a replacement of Pakistan Navy's Fokker F-27.

View attachment 2659

These MPA Sea Eagle Assets in conjunction with LRMPA Sea Sultan on Brazilian Embraer-1000E Lineage Platform with Hardware / Systems from Leonrado Electronics & Paramount Group, will replace legacy Orions as well as future maritime requirements.

View attachment 2662

RAS-72 Sea Eagles are equipped with Italian Leonardo Sea Spray 7500E AESA Radar.

View attachment 2656

The ability to rapidly interleave modes enables effective operation in the most complex environments including littoral scenarios.

View attachment 2660

The AESA radar equipped platform is becoming the Force Commander’s ISR asset of choice,bringing a huge step change in both capability and reliability.

View attachment 2657



AESA technology and flexible waveform generation enables delivery of peak performance in all modes. Using multiple low power, solid state Transmit/Receive Modules (TRM) the Sea spray 7500E is inherently more reliable than legacy mechanically-scanned radar systems.

View attachment 2663

The improved Seaspray 7500E radar modes are implemented in software within the enhanced Radar processor. New developments to GMTI, Spot/Strip SAR,ISAR and Air-Surveillance modes provide true multi-domain capability, including exceptional detection performance of small maritime targets in high clutter environments.

View attachment 2661

Processor enhancements allow for a significant increase int he number of targets tracked over previous variants, whilst supporting both automatic and manual track initiation.

The system has SAR and Inverse SAR Modes Sub Meter Resolution, Excellent MTI / GMTI Modes. With FLIR STAR SAFIRE 380 HD EO / IR Turret with 3-05 micron m Mid Wave Ifra Red MWIR Camera , A NIR Camera forms a highly efficient system for Clutter environment."


View attachment 2654


New Version is 7500 V2.

https://electronics.leonardo.com/documents/16277707/18422005/Seaspray+7500E+V2+HQ+%28mm09072%29.pdf?t=1693492257401

5 ATR-72-500 MPA seems like a major capability jump for the PN. Alongside the 6 venerable P-3C Orions and the upcoming Sea Sultans, Pakistan has one of the most advanced and largest MPA fleets in Asia.

How is the Pakistani ATR-72 MPA different from the Turkish & Italian versions? There seems to be physical differences between the two. @Quwa

 

[Quwa]

5 ATR-72-500 MPA seems like a major capability jump for the PN. Alongside the 6 venerable P-3C Orions and the upcoming Sea Sultans, Pakistan has one of the most advanced and largest MPA fleets in Asia.

How is the Pakistani ATR-72 MPA different from the Turkish & Italian versions? There seems to be physical differences between the two. @Quwa

IIRC, the Leonardo (Italian) ATR-72MP has MAD and anti-ship warfare (AShW) capabilities via the Marte Mk2. It seems Turkey's doing something similar with their P-72 program, possibly using their in-house missiles (e.g., Roketsan Cakir). Both the Italian and Turkish MPAs are based on the ATR-72-600.

OTOH, the RAS-72 is based on the ATR-72-500. I'm not sure if the PN pushed to equip these with AShW capabilities, but they have an ASW capability, albeit without MAD.

I suspect the PN intentionally went for a lighter trim (compared to the Italian and Turkish ones) as it was (1) working towards Sea Sultan and (2) likely wanted the RAS-72 to take on the Fokker's roles.

 

[Falcon26]

IIRC, the Leonardo (Italian) ATR-72MP has MAD and anti-ship warfare (AShW) capabilities via the Marte Mk2. It seems Turkey's doing something similar with their P-72 program, possibly using their in-house missiles (e.g., Roketsan Cakir). Both the Italian and Turkish MPAs are based on the ATR-72-600.

OTOH, the RAS-72 is based on the ATR-72-500. I'm not sure if the PN pushed to equip these with AShW capabilities, but they have an ASW capability, albeit without MAD.

I suspect the PN intentionally went for a lighter trim (compared to the Italian and Turkish ones) as it was (1) working towards Sea Sultan and (2) likely wanted the RAS-72 to take on the Fokker's roles.

I was under the impression PN ATR-72s carried two hardpoints

 

[Quwa]

I was under the impression PN ATR-72s carried two hardpoints

Yes, but I'm not sure if they've been cleared for an ASCM.

 

[Hussain]

Well since we are on the topic of sub hunters, some interesting articles:

Lasers and Magnetic Detectors Could Help China Find Enemy Subs

Chinese researchers are working on high-tech systems to detect hostile submarines.

nationalinterest.org

Industry asked to develop magnetic anomaly detector (MAD)-equipped UAV for anti-submarine warfare (ASW)

Project seeks to launch a 36-pound, 90-knot UAV with magnetometer from a P-8A aircraft, with 45-minute endurance, to detect submarine-sized targets.

www.militaryaerospace.com

Spain orders Airbus maritime patrol, surveillance aircraft for $2B

Assembly will take place at the Airbus military facilities in Seville, Spain.

www.defensenews.com

 

[Signalian]

So, too, with land engines - I could go on and on and leave you, all of you, fast asleep by the end of it!

im listening

 

[Joe Shearer]

im listening

Give me till the 29th or so.
My settings are botched up and I give a lot of pain to a good friend who has to suffer the consequences.

 

[Oscar]

Not in the A series.
India specifically asked for and got it in the I series.

The reasoning for that is threefold -
Cost prohibitive to put it in all USN fleet especially when USN P8A have access to a whole host of off board sensor systems that can paint the picture

And

The composition of the sea bed, water, convergence layers and so on of the Indian AoR where the p8I is expected to operate which benefits submarines quite a bit and needs patrol aircraft to really get low.

And

The tactics in play overall in IN where the sensor fusion is still a decade behind in practice if not capabilities

 

[Nilgiri]

Give me till the 29th or so.
My settings are botched up and I give a lot of pain to a good friend who has to suffer the consequences.

Is there a war simulation thread set up yet btw? To continue on the previous effort. Still finding my bearings here.

Hope @Oscar saved everything that needed saving from old forum regarding this.

 

[Oscar]

Is there a war simulation thread set up yet btw? To continue on the previous effort. Still finding my bearings here.

Hope @Oscar saved everything that needed saving from old forum regarding this.

Did not save squat from the old place so start from scratch


BUT
May not be a bad thing - I do have the old war plans and a better and more structured way to do this along with the ability to do the land war piece(finally!!) for some fun.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Is there a war simulation thread set up yet btw? To continue on the previous effort. Still finding my bearings here.

Hope @Oscar saved everything that needed saving from old forum regarding this.

Ohoho.

Watch out for @Raja Porus.
He's the guy shooting A100 volleys at our lorry parks, coastal defence missiles at our corvettes, Sam's at our SU 30s, and other Dirty Dan stuff.

Is there a war simulation thread set up yet btw? To continue on the previous effort. Still finding my bearings here.

Hope @Oscar saved everything that needed saving from old forum regarding this.

So you got here.

 

[Raja Porus]

Ohoho.

Watch out for @Raja Porus.
He's the guy shooting A100 volleys at our lorry parks, coastal defence missiles at our corvettes, Sam's at our SU 30s, and other Dirty Dan stuff.


So you got here.

Unfortunately the surprise of my wonder weapon has been lost for the next sim

How about we continue from where we left?