PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[Yasser76]

You two haven't fully understood what I meant.

English is an international language, that's a fact, and no one denies it. While my English is poor, that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge its international status.

For all Chinese pilots, including military and civilian pilots, fluency in English is an essential skill. Their English level is perfectly fine.

If you're a student learning from a Chinese teacher, English is the standard language of communication, which is perfectly acceptable. But if you want to learn more beyond the standard curriculum, then you need to understand Chinese and Chinese culture. Much of Chinese knowledge cannot be explained in English. And much deeper knowledge can only be understood in Chinese, and requires a very deep understanding of Chinese culture.

Of course, if you don't want to learn this part, you don't have to learn Chinese at all.

A real-world example:
In the early days of the PRC, the Soviet Union sent a large number of experts to assist China. Although these Soviet experts were equipped with dedicated translators, and some of them were also fluent in Chinese, a wave of Russian language learning swept across China. At that time, the vast majority of scientific and technological workers and highly educated individuals were required to learn Russian. The goal was simple: we had to learn the complete knowledge and deeply understand its underlying meaning, not just the superficial knowledge obtained through translation.

I understand now, thanks for the explanation

 

[RealNapster]

Why did the PLA stop procuring the J-10C in 2024, even though it entered service in 2017? Because multiple production lines for the J-20 began operations in 2024, leading to a surge in production capacity.

Now let’s look at the J-36/J-50: they are expected to enter small-batch production in 2027, enter full-scale service in 2029, and reach peak production capacity in 2032.

Therefore, the PLA will likely stop procuring the J-35 in 2032, and SAC will only be able to fulfill the PLA’s J-35 orders as much as possible during the window between 2026 and 2032.

So china is planning to start producing J-36 and J-50 with the current engines Ws-10/15/21 and not waiting for ACE/VCE ?

 

[AeronautIR]

@AeronautIR can answer this question. His brother is a J-10CE fighter pilot.

As far as I know, all PLAAF pilots and instructors are fluent in English. This is part of their basic curriculum.
However, if you want to build a good relationship with these instructors and get them to teach you more, then you must be able to communicate with them fluently in Chinese.

Ideally, knowing Chinese is the best option but I don't know any PAF pilot who is fluent in it, though many of us know common phrases. So we rely on English and now technology helps a lot with easy availability of good translation tools.
I had many Chinese students in Risalpur who came for Flying Instructor Course. Their English was fine but they would translate all our publications in Chinese for better understanding.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Greeks talk a good game, for domestic aaudiences, but yeah,, till Turkiye gets stealth of course Greeks have an advantage

Hence, Selchuk Byraktar wants to pitch in 20 stealthy KEs (that he can produce for the lifetime cost of a single F16 with a quite small amount billed in $) for every Greek F-35! By the by, as per Selchuk, he's ready to assume any duty for the nation, including that of presidency in 2028, which would be the end of the last term for Reis Erdo'an....

 

[617ah]

English is the default language for all things international, at every level and if China wants its airforce, and other arms to interact at a global level, these services will have to learn English and not the other way around.

If it wants to become a global arms seller, China needs to embrace and adopt English within those circles.

English is the only intermediate language out there that works well as that glue. Its not French, Spanish, or Cantonese, it is English.

English is basically a universal interface; elites in most countries can use English, and pilots are part of the elite. But if you can learn the language where the technology come, you can really learn more. Besides the translation difficulties and cultural factors Michael mentioned, using the same language can make relationships closer. Chinese people were once called the best students by the Soviets, and Soviet experts taught a lot of things not found in manuals because the Chinese spoke Russian very well and could really drink.

Also, there are some old Russian interfaces. For example, Burmese pilots can already use Chinese fluently, but in Uzbekistan they use Uzbek, Russian, and a little English, and language issues have indeed slowed down the pace of learning the J10CE. Chinese arms manufacturers should start thinking about how to train pilots from such countries. In the future, China might also build training bases similar to the U.S. Luke Air Force Base, specifically for training foreign pilots. In the English classes, they teach how to fly. In the Chinese classes, "bro, want to know some combat tricks?"

 

[Yasser76]

English is basically a universal interface; elites in most countries can use English, and pilots are part of the elite. But if you can learn the language where the technology come, you can really learn more. Besides the translation difficulties and cultural factors Michael mentioned, using the same language can make relationships closer. Chinese people were once called the best students by the Soviets, and Soviet experts taught a lot of things not found in manuals because the Chinese spoke Russian very well and could really drink.

Also, there are some old Russian interfaces. For example, Burmese pilots can already use Chinese fluently, but in Uzbekistan they use Uzbek, Russian, and a little English, and language issues have indeed slowed down the pace of learning the J10CE. Chinese arms manufacturers should start thinking about how to train pilots from such countries. In the future, China might also build training bases similar to the U.S. Luke Air Force Base, specifically for training foreign pilots. In the English classes, they teach how to fly. In the Chinese classes, "bro, want to know some combat tricks?"

Being fluent like a native will bring additional advantges in any situation, military, business or social, agreed

 

[MH.Yang]

So china is planning to start producing J-36 and J-50 with the current engines Ws-10/15/21 and not waiting for ACE/VCE ?

In 2011, J20 used AL31F, and it was not until 2017 that J20 began using WS10C. When J20 received the WS15 originally planned, it was already 2025.

So, J36/J50 can also follow the same path.

 

[Michael]

Ideally, knowing Chinese is the best option but I don't know any PAF pilot who is fluent in it, though many of us know common phrases. So we rely on English and now technology helps a lot with easy availability of good translation tools.
I had many Chinese students in Risalpur who came for Flying Instructor Course. Their English was fine but they would translate all our publications in Chinese for better understanding.

Although many Pakistanis would not agree with my view, I still consider this a very serious problem in today's Pakistan.

It is well known that China is the largest supplier to the Pakistani military today and serves as one of the country's key economic and political pillars.

However, authoritative statistics indicate that the proportion of Pakistanis who understand or are learning Chinese is far lower than that in India—even though India has consistently regarded China as its greatest adversary.

In real life, I know some Indians active in China. Not only do they speak standard Chinese (Mandarin), but they also speak various Chinese dialects—such as Cantonese, Hokkien, and Hakka—and can even understand some of the Sichuanese I speak.
I once had Pakistani technical specialists living in the apartment above mine. I would run into them in the elevator. They could only understand simple, everyday Mandarin; if my pronunciation wasn't standard enough or I spoke too quickly, they wouldn't understand a thing.

Yet, on this forum, many Pakistanis take pride in speaking English while looking down on Chinese.

My point isn't about the inherent merits of the Chinese language; rather, it is that if you want to learn from a good friend and gain knowledge, you must first understand what is on their mind. If Pakistan were the world's leading nation today, I wouldn't mind learning Urdu, Pashto, or any other Pakistani language.

There was a time when Chinese people widely studied Russian because the Soviet Union was a top-tier global power—and the only one willing to help China. Today, the United States is the world's leading nation, and English has become a compulsory subject for Chinese students (though, with the ongoing decline of the U.S., many Chinese scholars have begun advocating for reducing the emphasis placed on English classes).

There is a Chinese philosophical term: "不耻下问." I wonder how many Pakistanis can understand this phrase.

I apologize for going off-topic. If the mods feel this is inappropriate, please delete this post.

 

[m52k85]

HAS is expensive.

Taiwan's "Air Force plans to spend NT$6.88 billion (US$215 million) to build 26 hardened aircraft shelters in Hualien and Taitung as the number of F-16Vs deployed in eastern Taiwan is expected to approach 120."

 

[Afif]

HAS is expensive.

Taiwan's "Air Force plans to spend NT$6.88 billion (US$215 million) to build 26 hardened aircraft shelters in Hualien and Taitung as the number of F-16Vs deployed in eastern Taiwan is expected to approach 120."

And they can't still defend against a direct hit from a BM or CM with 1000lb penetrating warhead

 

[m52k85]

And they can't still defend against a direct hit from a BM or CM with 1000lb penetrating warhead

Yes and that's why I think the era of high end fighters is over. The script has flipped. Previously they were the hunters, now with near-real time satellite tracking available on subscription from Ali Baba and components on Temu to turn your scooti drone and scud missile to precision terminal guided, these high end fighters are starting to become a liability.

Outside the US and China (who have the economic might) all other nations will divert funding elsewhere.

 

[m52k85]

Yes and that's why I think the era of high end fighters is over. The script has flipped. Previously they were the hunters, now with near-real time satellite tracking available on subscription from Ali Baba and components on Temu to turn your scooti drone and scud missile to precision terminal guided, these high end fighters are starting to become a liability.

Outside the US and China (who have the economic might) all other nations will divert funding elsewhere.

However that is not say the fighter race is redundant. Eventually countries will realise that satellites will need to be taken out as part of a conflict, and then the side with best fighters will find themselves in the driving seat. But that is 50 years away.

 

[Michael]

HAS is expensive.

Taiwan's "Air Force plans to spend NT$6.88 billion (US$215 million) to build 26 hardened aircraft shelters in Hualien and Taitung as the number of F-16Vs deployed in eastern Taiwan is expected to approach 120."

For the Taiwan Air Force, Hardened Aircraft Shelters (HAS) are not the primary focus.

1. A point often overlooked is that the density of Taiwan's air defense system ranks second in the world, surpassed only by Israel.

2. The Zhihang Air Force Base in Taitung and the Jiashan Air Force Base in Hualien serve as the Taiwan Air Force's ultimate trump cards. For years, the military has been excavating the Central Mountain Range behind these bases to construct massive hangars. These hangars can accommodate hundreds of fighter jets and feature multiple exits, allowing aircraft to taxi out and take off directly.

This type of defense is capable of withstanding virtually any non-nuclear attack currently in existence worldwide.

 

[Yasser76]

For the Taiwan Air Force, Hardened Aircraft Shelters (HAS) are not the primary focus.

1. A point often overlooked is that the density of Taiwan's air defense system ranks second in the world, surpassed only by Israel.

2. The Zhihang Air Force Base in Taitung and the Jiashan Air Force Base in Hualien serve as the Taiwan Air Force's ultimate trump cards. For years, the military has been excavating the Central Mountain Range behind these bases to construct massive hangars. These hangars can accommodate hundreds of fighter jets and feature multiple exits, allowing aircraft to taxi out and take off directly.

This type of defense is capable of withstanding virtually any non-nuclear attack currently in existence worldwide.

J-35 PAF thread mate...

 

[Pioneer]

Compared to building a HAS, it is better to expand the ADIZ.