Air Power: A2A Missiles (in detail)
- Thread starter Trailer23
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GriffinsRule
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Not entirely unexpected, when push comes to shove, can't beat the US R&D advantage
It supposedly has altitude control thrusters similar to PAC-3. That would enable it to make course corrections effectively in thinner air above 100k feet where traditional control surfaces alone become insufficient. If not then it’s not gonna outrange Meteor. Although no doubt it will have a guidance system in a league of its own.
Reichmarshal
Trusted Member
With the advancement in counter measures, as we go along long ranges will be ineffective.....more n more.
Beyond 40-60 km range missiles r ineffective specially against fighter ac....they can be effective against transport/awacs type ac.....but even they field pretty nasty counter measures .
The defence industry works this way.....develop a weapon then mkt it as the best thing out their....after uve sold to ur hearts content...develop a counter measure for that weapon n mkt it as the be all end all.....n the cycle continues
Beyond 40-60 km range missiles r ineffective specially against fighter ac....they can be effective against transport/awacs type ac.....but even they field pretty nasty counter measures .
The defence industry works this way.....develop a weapon then mkt it as the best thing out their....after uve sold to ur hearts content...develop a counter measure for that weapon n mkt it as the be all end all.....n the cycle continues
Bilal
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
A question I wanted to ask but didn’t find the right thread.
Why the tried and tested multi-stage approach so successful in othe applications not taken in AAMs. Instead they go for crazy stuff like air breathing solid fuel ramjet, dusk pulse, etc.
Oscar
Moderator
Eventually the returns on growth are no longer feasible with the technology so out of the box thinking is needed.
Just like straight wings can only take you just past Mach 1 and then you need to rethink.
NGAD IS THE BEST
Elite Member
Air to air missiles are also improving to have better resistance (ECM/ECCM etc etc) to counter-countermeasure (jamming/chaff and flares/toed decoys etc etc) of fighter jets and AWACS/tankers and ISR targets
Reichmarshal
Trusted Member
Like I said above its all part of a cycle generated by the armament industry with sole purpose being to generated max profit.
where the offensive weapon is first created n then after a while a counter measure/weapon is created.....then subsequently the offensive weapon is improved in a new block n then the counter measures r improved.....in this goes on till a new weapon sys is created n the cycle is repeated all over again
It's all a huge game to suck every penny out of the pockets of the customers
Bilal
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
So you think it’s a viable (and simpler) option?
Oscar
Moderator
Possibly - Ramjets provide a great sustainment capability but they add weight and produce greater drag at low level than traditional rocket motors. It is also a challenge to get them into bays of LO platforms due to the larger diameter (with intakes).
Meanwhile, using dual pulse and boost coast logic the AIM-260 could provide similar performance while being in the same weight class and size as the AMRAAM which means little to no modification needed to fit it into the F-22 or F-35.
For the most part the performance with boost coast and dual pulse motors is sufficient enough that it provides a close enough NEZ at 80% of engagement altitudes and scenarios while being able to undertake the low level chase better along with having a little better energy profile post propellant out. The meteor loses energy a lot faster than the AMRAAM or PL-15.
F-22Raptor
Elite Member
This is a Special Access program under USAF missile procurement. This is likely AIM-260.
You can see the significant ramp up in procurement dollars this year to $420M and $628M next year.
F-22Raptor
Elite Member
I expect the B-21 bomber to be capable of carrying the AIM-260. You can see the secondary weapons bays next to the main.
GoMig-21
Elite Member
You'll have to explain which missiles you're referring to in the 1st bolded part (I'm guessing you're talking about any ramjet powered missile but mainly the AIM-260 since that's the thread topic, yes?), but then it appears to lead you to making that rather bold (and frankly speaking, quite the erroneous) statement in the 2nd bolded part. I apologize for taking you to task out of the blue like this, and you'll have to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm quite perplexed as that's a pretty serious accusation to make of the much-vaunted Meteor missile. "The meteor loses energy a lot faster than the AMRAAM or PL-15" ?
Unlike conventional BVR missiles with the two phases of thrust where they initially burn out their propellent in the first phase before switching to their cruising/coasting phase, the Meteor uses its ram air intake and combines it with its solid fuel propellent right from the get-go (post-launching). That allows it to conserve its fuel thus greatly extending that initial fuel burnout phase that the other missiles such as AMRAAMs go through. Those missiles burn out most, if not all their fuel prior to coasting to target which reduced their kinetic energy in the 2nd coasting phase, while the Meteor with its throttle-ducted fuel/air combination significantly extend its kinetic range beyond that initial burnout phase making it much more effective. That was the whole idea for MBDA developing the Meteor.
That factor alone gives it 4 - 6 times the kinetic energy and subsequent performance and twice the NEZ and PK than any of the other current AMRAAMs such as the AIM-120D or PL-15.
Hence the drive for Raytheon to develop the AIM-260. Not sure how you could say the Meteor loses energy a lot faster than the AMRAAM (and like I asked for clarification, that means the current AIM-120D) and PL-15. In fact, it's quite the opposite.
Even with the latter's dual-pulsed motor. Despite giving it a slight speed advantage (claimed), that also gives it a higher burnout rate which greatly affects its 2nd & terminal phase velocity unlike the Meteor.
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