China and India - How is India viewed in China?

[Chandragupt Maurya]

The sorpotel is quite good, nice and salty, perfect little quick snack but its made of the worst bits, baloney.. just spiced good.

In Manipur etc they make pork curry which is to be had with rotis.. super delish.

Coorg do the best version in all my tastings of desi pork.. pandi curry, that shit is to die for.

Beef ki bhi lots of dishes here regionally, like the errachi fry (stir fry) from Kerala, north east do their own versions too.

I like Goat/lamb the best of the desi meat offerings but.. nothing beats a good burra !

I don’t eat any kind of beef, but I really miss Indian pork, especially the version made with extra garlic. It’s very popular in Bihar, Nepal, Bengal, and the Northeast. The wild black pigs found in India have a flavor that is quite different from the industrial pork available anywhere else in the world.

 

[Michael]

I don’t eat any kind of beef, but I really miss Indian pork, especially the version made with extra garlic. It’s very popular in Bihar, Nepal, Bengal, and the Northeast. The wild black pigs found in India have a flavor that is quite different from the industrial pork available anywhere else in the world.

China has very strict wildlife protection laws. Wild boars are legally protected animals and illegal hunting is prohibited. These wild animals are also not allowed to be driven or killed if they infringe on farmland or houses. It is up to the government to pay for the damages.

Recently, there is a place in China that is flooded with wild boars. The local government invites people to hunt and kill on a limited basis, however, the use of guns or drugs is prohibited. The hunted wild boars are handed over to the government for disposal, and the government pays for the hunts.

Chinese people prefer to eat wild animals, and the current wild boar meat is all artificially bred wild boar. If India can provide large quantities of high quality wild boar meat, this will be a very good market. However, due to completely different eating habits, these wild boars will be difficult to sell if they are processed and then sold to China. Therefore, direct supply of wild boar meat is the best option.

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

China has very strict wildlife protection laws. Wild boars are legally protected animals and illegal hunting is prohibited. These wild animals are also not allowed to be driven or killed if they infringe on farmland or houses. It is up to the government to pay for the damages.

Recently, there is a place in China that is flooded with wild boars. The local government invites people to hunt and kill on a limited basis, however, the use of guns or drugs is prohibited. The hunted wild boars are handed over to the government for disposal, and the government pays for the hunts.

Chinese people prefer to eat wild animals, and the current wild boar meat is all artificially bred wild boar. If India can provide large quantities of high quality wild boar meat, this will be a very good market. However, due to completely different eating habits, these wild boars will be difficult to sell if they are processed and then sold to China. Therefore, direct supply of wild boar meat is the best option.

wild boar is a protected species in India, I was talking about domesticated pigs. There are several varieties of pigs in India, and they are in abundance—not endangered.

In my teenage years, it was common to enjoy pork ribs with wine in my village with friends, both Hindus and Muslims. The recent trend of Muslims in Bihar avoiding pork seems to be driven by increasing radicalization through social media.
I’m not sure why industrially produced pork doesn’t taste the same as the pork from the domesticated pigs in my village. I suspect they use some kind of hormones or have genetically modified the pigs to maximize profits.

 

[Nilgiri]

The Chinese do like to eat meat. China imports large quantities of soybeans from the United States and Brazil. The dregs of these soybeans left behind after the oil is extracted are used to feed meat pigs. Eventually, these meat hogs become food for the Chinese.
My family of three, on average, consumes about 250g of pork per day.

Meanwhile, the Chinese consume a huge amount of alcohol. Both baijiu and huangjiu, which are favored by the Chinese, require the use of large quantities of grain to brew.
I drink about 200g of baijiu every day.

So, what is the average Indian's consumption of meat and wine a like? It shouldn't be a 10x difference.

Regd meat, the latest total numbers seem to be:

India:

Bovine (Beef/buffalo): 3 million ton
Chicken/poultry: 4 million ton
Pork: 0.4 million ton
Lamb/Goat: 1 million ton

China:

Bovine: 9 million ton
Chicken/poultry: 14 million ton
Pork: 57 million ton
Lamb/Goat: 4 million ton

Basically China really increases its total with Pork. India doesn't get anywhere near the "1/3rd" of China like rest of meats here. (Fish its also about 50 million ton for China and 15 million for India).

The consumption pattern that replaces this in India case would be various pulses, lentils, chickpeas etc (that China is low in comparison).

Milk as well where India produces some 220 million tons and China about 40 million tons. But I am unsure the feed pattern for Indian dairy industry, how much grain intensity there is there compared to grass etc.

So this is reflected in these (lentils etc) not being grains and eaten directly (for dietary protein), but grains (soybean, corn etc) needed for pork farms in China that adds to China's total grain needs.

 

[Michael]

Regd meat, the latest total numbers seem to be:

India:

Bovine (Beef/buffalo): 3 million ton
Chicken/poultry: 4 million ton
Pork: 0.4 million ton
Lamb/Goat: 1 million ton

China:

Bovine: 9 million ton
Chicken/poultry: 14 million ton
Pork: 57 million ton
Lamb/Goat: 4 million ton

Basically China really increases its total with Pork. India doesn't get anywhere near the "1/3rd" of China like rest of meats here. (Fish its also about 50 million ton for China and 15 million for India).

The consumption pattern that replaces this in India case would be various pulses, lentils, chickpeas etc (that China is low in comparison).

Milk as well where India produces some 220 million tons and China about 40 million tons. But I am unsure the feed pattern for Indian dairy industry, how much grain intensity there is there compared to grass etc.

So this is reflected in these (lentils etc) not being grains and eaten directly (for dietary protein), but grains (soybean, corn etc) needed for pork farms in China that adds to China's total grain needs.

My understanding is that the difference in food consumption between China and India is mainly in meat and liquor.

According to publicly available data. per capita consumption of meat in China in 2023 is 55.67Kg. per capita consumption of meat in India in 2023 is 5Kg. - The data for China is from the official data of National Bureau of Statistics (NBS). I am not sure that the Indian data is accurate.

Chinese baijiu brewing consumes a lot of grain. To brew 500g of liquor, you need to consume 1500g~2500g of grain (category difference).In 2023, China's liquor will be 6.29 billion Kg. equivalent grain consumption will be 25~30 million tons.
This is only the consumption of Chinese baijiu. It does not include the consumption of other liquors such as wine, yellow wine and beer.

 

[Nilgiri]

My understanding is that the difference in food consumption between China and India is mainly in meat and liquor.

According to publicly available data. per capita consumption of meat in China in 2023 is 55.67Kg. per capita consumption of meat in India in 2023 is 5Kg. - The data for China is from the official data of National Bureau of Statistics (NBS). I am not sure that the Indian data is accurate.

Chinese baijiu brewing consumes a lot of grain. To brew 500g of liquor, you need to consume 1500g~2500g of grain (category difference).In 2023, China's liquor will be 6.29 billion Kg. equivalent grain consumption will be 25~30 million tons.
This is only the consumption of Chinese baijiu. It does not include the consumption of other liquors such as wine, yellow wine and beer.

For meat and protein per capita:

Its about 6 - 7 kg for India per capita (per year) right now (from FAO database).

So like I said earlier about 9-10 times less than China.

Basically 6.5 kg is about 6500/365 = 18 gm meat per day
maybe about 18 x 0.25 = 5 gm protein from meat per day

Supply is about 70 gm protein per day. So 65 gm is from non-meat basically.
5/70 = 7%

56 kg for China is about = 150 gm meat per day.
About 150 x0.25 = 37 gm meat per day.

Supply for China is about 125 gm protein per day.
37/125 = 30%

protein map:

Daily per capita protein supply

Average daily per capita protein supply, measured in grams of total protein per day.

ourworldindata.org

India from 1960 to present:

Daily per capita protein supply

Average daily per capita protein supply, measured in grams of total protein per day.

ourworldindata.org

From 2005 to 2021, increase from 52 to 70.5 g per capita (after stalling at 50 g level since 1960s till mid 2000s)

So its very likely the growth continues at same pace or better to 80 g and then 90g (for this decade and next), lets see.

China is country to learn from and emulate for animal protein growth from earlier "cold war" base level (40 - 50 gm) and economic development rise (going through 60gm, 70gm then 80g and 90g to current 120 gm):

China from 1960 to present:

Daily per capita protein supply

Average daily per capita protein supply, measured in grams of total protein per day.

ourworldindata.org

For India, compared to pork..... poultry and eggs is where the existing expertise can be harnessed for animal protein growth...i.e good return on investment compared to starting and operating costs of rest....and their lower grain demands etc:

Feed required to produce one kilogram of meat or dairy product

Quantity of animal feed required to produce one kilogram of meat, egg or milk product. This is measured as dry matter feed in kilograms per kilogram of edible weight output.

ourworldindata.org

Shri Parshottam Rupala briefs media on 9 Years' Key achievements and initiatives of Department of Animal Husbandry and Dairying

India has vast resource of livestock and poultry, which play a vital role in improving the socio-eco

pib.gov.in

"Egg production in the country has increased from 78.48 billion in 2014-15 to 129.60 billion Nos. in 2021-22. Egg production in the country is growing at the rate (CAGR) of 7.4% per annum. The per capita availability of egg is at 95 eggs per annum in 2021-22."

"Meat production in the country has increased from 6.69 million tonnes in 2014-15 to 9.29 million tonnes in 2021-22."

India: egg production | Statista

In fiscal year 2023, the production of eggs across India amounted to over 138 billion, a significant increase from about 16 billion eggs produced in fiscal year 1986.

www.statista.com

Poultry:

India Broiler Meat (Poultry) Production by Year (1000 MT)

www.indexmundi.com

Fish is another one with optimal return:

Fish consumption in India in 2022-23 and future prospects - NCAER | Quality . Relevance . Impact

Opinion: Saurabh Bandyopadhyay, Laxmi Joshi and Nijara Deka. Fish contributes to ensuring domestic food and nutritional security and India registered a per capita yearly consumption of over 13 kg in 2022-23. In addition, more varieties of fish are available for consumption by households through...

www.ncaer.org

Fish contributes to ensuring domestic food and nutritional security and India registered a per capita yearly consumption of over 13 kg in 2022-23.

(Basically a doubling over 10 years from 6 kg per capita per year then)

The total consumption according to this now stands as nearing 20 million tons per year now (rather than 15 I mentioned earlier).

======================

As for Alcohol:

List of countries by alcohol consumption per capita - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Both countries are around 5-6 liters per person per year right now.

Indian alcohols may lean more towards using stuff like palm + coconut tree sap (toddy/palm wine) and sugar cane (rum but known as whiskey locally too) and wine from grapes etc too are becoming popular.

Compared to grain alcohols that you mention (though there are Indian grain alcohols, both whiskey, clear spirit etc)....again maybe reducing grain footprint of Indian alcohol compared to Chinese alcohol trends (baijiu, beer heavy etc)...at least what is made locally anyway.

Lot of alcohol is also imported, so those grain footprints are essentially outsourced to foreign countries.

There is also the bio ethanol production and its grain footprint.

i.e how much bioethanol you produce and then the corn and grain vs sugar cane (not grain) you use.

"1 bushel of corn (56 pounds) = 2.8 gallons of ethanol"

Ontario corn ethanol - Good in Every Grain

Did you know 33% of Ontario’s harvested grain corn is used to make ethanol? What is ethanol? Ethanol is a…

goodineverygrain.ca

Ethanol fuel by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If my numbers are right, about 8 kg pure ethanol can be produced from 25kg of corn.
i.e about 3:1 conversion.


Regarding pure grain to meat

The "best case" ratios I found are (grain input to meat output):

Beef: 3:1 (but high requirement on grass etc past this, i.e another 3:1 or more added)
Pork: 4:1 (but can be done exclusively)
Chicken, Eggs etc: 2:1

These all are about x0.25 to get final protein (egg is about half of meat and fish).

So you can see these add grain intensity compared to grain consumption by humans directly for protein (or protein concentrated crops like legumes, lentils or dairy concentrated cheese/yoghurt etc, if latter is done with minimal grain).

Anyway this is all part of reason I think India best bet to increase for next cpl decades animal protein wise are: chicken, eggs, dairy, fish.

More info here:

Feed conversion ratio - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Michael]

For meat and protein per capita:

Its about 6 - 7 kg for India per capita (per year) right now (from FAO database).

So like I said earlier about 9-10 times less than China.

Basically 6.5 kg is about 6500/365 = 18 gm meat per day
maybe about 18 x 0.25 = 5 gm protein from meat per day

Supply is about 70 gm protein per day. So 65 gm is from non-meat basically.
5/70 = 7%

56 kg for China is about = 150 gm meat per day.
About 150 x0.25 = 37 gm meat per day.

Supply for China is about 125 gm protein per day.
37/125 = 30%

protein map:

Daily per capita protein supply

Average daily per capita protein supply, measured in grams of total protein per day.

ourworldindata.org

India from 1960 to present:

Daily per capita protein supply

Average daily per capita protein supply, measured in grams of total protein per day.

ourworldindata.org

From 2005 to 2021, increase from 52 to 70.5 g per capita (after stalling at 50 g level since 1960s till mid 2000s)

So its very likely the growth continues at same pace or better to 80 g and then 90g (for this decade and next), lets see.

China is country to learn from and emulate for animal protein growth from earlier "cold war" base level (40 - 50 gm) and economic development rise (going through 60gm, 70gm then 80g and 90g to current 120 gm):

China from 1960 to present:

Daily per capita protein supply

Average daily per capita protein supply, measured in grams of total protein per day.

ourworldindata.org

For India, compared to pork..... poultry and eggs is where the existing expertise can be harnessed for animal protein growth...i.e good return on investment compared to starting and operating costs of rest....and their lower grain demands etc:

Feed required to produce one kilogram of meat or dairy product

Quantity of animal feed required to produce one kilogram of meat, egg or milk product. This is measured as dry matter feed in kilograms per kilogram of edible weight output.

ourworldindata.org

Shri Parshottam Rupala briefs media on 9 Years' Key achievements and initiatives of Department of Animal Husbandry and Dairying

India has vast resource of livestock and poultry, which play a vital role in improving the socio-eco

pib.gov.in

"Egg production in the country has increased from 78.48 billion in 2014-15 to 129.60 billion Nos. in 2021-22. Egg production in the country is growing at the rate (CAGR) of 7.4% per annum. The per capita availability of egg is at 95 eggs per annum in 2021-22."

"Meat production in the country has increased from 6.69 million tonnes in 2014-15 to 9.29 million tonnes in 2021-22."

India: egg production | Statista

In fiscal year 2023, the production of eggs across India amounted to over 138 billion, a significant increase from about 16 billion eggs produced in fiscal year 1986.

www.statista.com

Poultry:

India Broiler Meat (Poultry) Production by Year (1000 MT)

www.indexmundi.com

Fish is another one with optimal return:

Fish consumption in India in 2022-23 and future prospects - NCAER | Quality . Relevance . Impact

Opinion: Saurabh Bandyopadhyay, Laxmi Joshi and Nijara Deka. Fish contributes to ensuring domestic food and nutritional security and India registered a per capita yearly consumption of over 13 kg in 2022-23. In addition, more varieties of fish are available for consumption by households through...

www.ncaer.org

Fish contributes to ensuring domestic food and nutritional security and India registered a per capita yearly consumption of over 13 kg in 2022-23.

(Basically a doubling over 10 years from 6 kg per capita per year then)

The total consumption according to this now stands as nearing 20 million tons per year now (rather than 15 I mentioned earlier).

======================

As for Alcohol:

List of countries by alcohol consumption per capita - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Both countries are around 5-6 liters per person per year right now.

Indian alcohols may lean more towards using stuff like palm + coconut tree sap (toddy/palm wine) and sugar cane (rum but known as whiskey locally too) and wine from grapes etc too are becoming popular.

Compared to grain alcohols that you mention (though there are Indian grain alcohols, both whiskey, clear spirit etc)....again maybe reducing grain footprint of Indian alcohol compared to Chinese alcohol trends (baijiu, beer heavy etc)...at least what is made locally anyway.

Lot of alcohol is also imported, so those grain footprints are essentially outsourced to foreign countries.

There is also the bio ethanol production and its grain footprint.

i.e how much bioethanol you produce and then the corn and grain vs sugar cane (not grain) you use.

"1 bushel of corn (56 pounds) = 2.8 gallons of ethanol"

Ontario corn ethanol - Good in Every Grain

Did you know 33% of Ontario’s harvested grain corn is used to make ethanol? What is ethanol? Ethanol is a…

goodineverygrain.ca

Ethanol fuel by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If my numbers are right, about 8 kg pure ethanol can be produced from 25kg of corn.
i.e about 3:1 conversion.


Regarding pure grain to meat

The "best case" ratios I found are (grain input to meat output):

Beef: 3:1 (but high requirement on grass etc past this, i.e another 3:1 or more added)
Pork: 4:1 (but can be done exclusively)
Chicken, Eggs etc: 2:1

These all are about x0.25 to get final protein (egg is about half of meat and fish).

So you can see these add grain intensity compared to grain consumption by humans directly for protein (or protein concentrated crops like legumes, lentils or dairy concentrated cheese/yoghurt etc, if latter is done with minimal grain).

Anyway this is all part of reason I think India best bet to increase for next cpl decades animal protein wise are: chicken, eggs, dairy, fish.

More info here:

Feed conversion ratio - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I can't find much information on the English version of Chinese food. I can only describe what I eat.

I live in Sichuan province, where Sichuan cuisine is the mainstay.You have lived in China and I don't know if you have ever eaten authentic Sichuan food.
In the farmer's market here, many vegetables are more expensive than pork. In the Chinese mindset nowadays, eating vegetables is better for your health than eating meat, and there are many vegetarians. This is the reason why the price of vegetables has gone up. But I still prefer meat.

I worked in Shenzhen and Hong Kong for a few years. I also like Cantonese food.

Chicken and fish are also major meat foods for Chinese people, but they are not as popular as pork. It has to do with availability. Eggs are also a staple food for the Chinese.

I'm not a nutrition expert and don't pay much attention to these complicated nutritional data analysis. I only care if the food is to my taste ........... LOL