China’s Stealth Fighter Designer Critiques U.S. B-21 Bomber Development Pace

Beijingwalker

Frequent Poster
Joined
Nov 4, 2011
Messages
88,534
Reaction score
110,694
Country of Origin
Country of Residence

China’s Stealth Fighter Designer Critiques U.S. B-21 Bomber Development Pace​

on 23 December 2023

In a lecture aimed at dissecting the evolution of air warfare, Yang Wei, the chief designer of China’s leading-edge J-20 stealth fighter, scrutinized the developments surrounding America’s B-21 Raider stealth bomber.

Yang compared the philosophies underlying military aviation advancements in China and the United States, suggesting that China’s approach to research and development outpaces that of its American counterpart.

The analysis of the U.S. B-21 Raider’s progress and the broader implications of this comparison has sparked interest and commentary throughout the defense community.

China’s military advances have been notable not only for their technological aspects but also for their speed. According to Yang Wei, this is exemplified in China’s adoption of digital engineering, which enables faster development cycles compared to American methods.

Yang’s critique extended beyond a simple one-upmanship of aircraft capabilities, targeting the fundamental R&D approaches between the two powers. Moreover, his speech hinted at deeper collaboration with China’s Academy of Engineering Physics, spurring speculation about China integrating nuclear capabilities onto their fighter jets, a strategic shift from China’s historically defensive nuclear posture.

This evolving strategy aligns with China’s broader military developments. Enhancing the J-20 stealth fighter with a nuclear strike capability could offer China a more immediate nuclear deterrent while the development of the H-20 bomber continues.

The J-20’s advanced stealth characteristics could potentially enable it to execute penetrating nuclear strikes with a greater probability of evading detection and defensive measures. With both nations advancing their military aviation technology, the competition underscores not just advancements in technical capabilities, but also in strategic doctrine.

In sum, the insights from Yang Wei’s talk echo a larger narrative regarding the competitive advancement in stealth technology and, importantly, highlight the strategic implications should China pair its stealth fighters with nuclear weaponry.

FAQ:
1. What was the primary focus of Yang Wei’s lecture?
Yang Wei’s lecture focused on the evolution of air warfare, specifically the development of the J-20 stealth fighter and the comparison with America’s B-21 Raider stealth bomber.

2. How does China’s approach to military aviation R&D compare with that of the United States?
According to Yang Wei, China’s employs digital engineering which leads to faster development cycles, suggesting an advantage over traditional American R&D methods.

3. What speculation has arisen from Yang Wei’s mention of collaboration with China’s Academy of Engineering Physics?
There is speculation that China may be considering integrating nuclear capabilities onto their J-20 fighter jets, indicating a possible shift in China’s nuclear strategy.

4. What strategic advantage could China gain by enhancing the J-20 with nuclear strike capability?
Such a capability could provide China with a more immediate nuclear deterrent and the ability to execute penetrating nuclear strikes that could evade detection and defensive measures.

5. Why is the competition between China and the U.S. in military aviation technology significant?
The competition is significant because it reflects not only advancements in technical capabilities but also shifts in strategic military doctrines.

Definitions:
Stealth Technology: A set of techniques used in military aviation to make aircraft less detectable by radar and other detection methods.

Digital Engineering: An approach to designing and developing systems that utilize advanced computing and simulation to create faster, more efficient development processes.

Nuclear Deterrent: A strategy wherein a country possesses nuclear weapons to discourage an enemy from taking an action, typically by the promise of retaliation.

Research and Development (R&D): The process through which new products and technologies are created and existing products are improved.

 

Will Chinese Fighters Soon Take On a New Nuclear Role?​

It would break historical pattern, but it may not be outlandish as you think.

BY SÉBASTIEN ROBLIN
PUBLISHED: DEC 22, 2023 1:00 PM EST

Yang Wei, the chief designer of China’s J-20 stealth fighter, gave a talk in October discussing the U.S.’s B-21 Raider stealth bomber, which made its first flight in November after being unveiled to the public a year ago.

His audience was at China’s Academy of Engineering Physics (CAEP)—also known as the 9th Institute—and the talk was a broad primer on the evolution of air warfare. It touched on the concept of jet fighter generations, the OODA decision-making loop, and so on.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


Commentators have claimed that Yang dunked on the B-21, saying that it “couldn’t compare to us”—supposedly comparing it to the yet-to-be publicly unveiled H-20 stealth bomber, in development by the Xi’an Aircraft Corporation andalso believed to be a nuclear-capable flying wing.

the-b-21-raider-is-unveiled-during-a-ceremony-at-northrop-news-photo-1701453550.jpg

Unveiling of the first pre-production B-21 Raider stealth bomber in a ceremony at Plant 42 in Palmdale, California on December 2, 2022.
FREDERIC J. BROWN//Getty Images

But here’s the remark’s full context: “When [the B-21] was advertised, it was said that it would be developed using digital engineering and its research and development speed would be fast. But in fact, the first flight has been delayed for three years, and I don’t think it can compare to us.”

Yang also put up slides with screenshots from old U.S. reports, noting how the B-21 would incorporate many already-developed components to reduces costs and R&D time to reinforce his point.

He was, therefore, comparing the speed of China’s military R&D cycles and adoption of digital tools (a technology he’s promoted as a senior director in China’s military aerospace industry) to that of the U.S. And in that comparison, he concluded that China could still develop new aircraft faster than the U.S. could.

This diss of the U.S. defense industry’s R&D and procurement processes isn’t exactly the “our plane is better than their plane” statement it’s been made out to be.

But the presentation’s actual bombshell came innocuously. Yang congratulated CAEP for celebrating its 65th anniversary, and noted that his organization—the Chengdu Aircraft Research & Design Institute, which does R&D for the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC or CAIG)—is now working closely with CAEP on a common project.

CAEP serves as China’s primary nuclear weapons research and development organization, and happens to be based close to Chengdu in Mianyang.

Perhaps his words could be dismissed as a bureaucrat’s niceties about closer inter-departmental cooperation. But it sure sounds like Yang is implying that CAEP and CAC are, at a minimum, jointly studying and consulting on the process of equipping Chengdu-built fighters with nuclear arms—a capability heretofore absent from China’s fighter fleet.

Why China hasn’t put nukes on fighters

Chinese nuclear doctrine has historically been focused on strategic weapons for defensive deterrence and retaliation—as opposed to those primarily developed for ‘tactical’ use and warfighting benefits. That includes a professed No-First Strike policy and a comparatively small nuclear arsenal (albeit one that has been rapidly growing in recent years).

Thus, while the U.S. Air Force deploys tactical nuclear gravity bombs on its multi-role fighters, China’s air-based nuclear deterrence has been based on H-6 strategic bombers—with the exception of a small number of specially modified Q-5 attack jets in play during the 1970-80s.


chinese-airforce-pilots-during-training-with-nanchang-q-5-news-photo-1701454140.jpg

In the 1970s, China modified a few of its Nanchang Q-5 ’Fantan’ supersonic attack jets (seen here in 1979) to carry nuclear weapons, cognizant that its H-6 jet bombers were unlikely to survive to target carrying nuclear gravity bombs.
Sovfoto//Getty Images

Even then, the PLA Air Force’s role in providing air-based nuclear deterrence is thought to have effectively lapsed for a period, before being resurrected around 2018. Currently, the 106th Bomber Brigade’s new H-6N bombers—armed with air-launched ballistic missiles—are though to constitute China’s air-based nuclear deterrence and offer a regional standoff strike capability extending a few thousand miles. These bombers, distinguished by their protruding air-refueling probes, must rely on the reach of their missiles. The bombers themselves are too slow and easily detected to get close to enemy air defenses and fighters.


To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


Andreas Rupprecht, an expert who has published several books on Chinese military aviation, wrote to PopMech that nuclear weapons “are under the control of the Central Military Commission and at least by what I know, no PLA Army Air Force base has the necessary infrastructure for nuclear weapons. Maybe at best, the 106th Bomber Brigade.”

Eventually, the H-20 should enter service and offer a longer-range penetrating strike capability. It should, theoretically, be stealthy enough to slip between air defenses and fly deeper into defended airspace, extending its reach considerably.

A nuclear-capable upgrade to China’s J-20 stealth fighter?

Perhaps the simplest rationale for a nuclear-armed J-20 is to give the PLAAF a regional penetrating nuclear-strike capability while it waits for the H-20 to enter service.

Though H-6Ns are a viable means to a nuclear-delivery end, their standoff strikes can be detected while inbound, and are susceptible to countermeasures. Having a secondary air-based nuclear platform with the range and stealth for penetrating strikes could confound defenses and increase the odds of successfully striking, say, U.S. bases in Guam or other relevant areas in the Western Pacific.

The J-20 is the most advanced fighter in PLAAF service. It’s also China’s only manned stealth jet, until the H-20 bomber and the lighter J-35 fighter enter service.

j-20-fighter-44040541250-656a22708a7a5.jpg

A J-20 overflew the Zhuhai Airshow in 2018 with its weapons bay open, revealing four long-range air-to-air missiles inside. Also one of the ’cheek’ side bays is open showing the smaller short-range missile within. A J-20 would need to fit any nuclear munitions carried in the main bay to preserve its stealth characteristics.
Nie//Wikimedia Commons

Admittedly, as a fighter first and foremost, the J-20 was designed with an emphasis on frontal-aspect stealth. As a trade-off, it has weaker side and rear-aspect stealth capabilities—a liability when flying on deep strikes that are potentially exposed to radars from those angles. But still, it’s probably more likely to successfully execute penetrating strikes than current non-stealth systems like the JH-7 fighter-bomber.

Modifying any plane for nuclear weapons requires the installation of special wiring. But a nuke for the J-20 would likely require the development of a new small nuclear missile or bomb that can fit inside the J-20’s internal weapons bay, as munitions carried underwing would increase its radar cross section.

Alternative possibilities: nuclear J-10 or JF-17?

CAC is involved in the production of two other military jets that could plausibly carry nuclear weapons: the JF-17 Thunder (for co-production with and use by Pakistan, and for export in small numbers to Nigeria and Myanmar) and the J-10 multi-role fighter. Both are short-range, non-stealth fighters unlikely to penetrate deeply into defended enemy airspace, and thus would primarily be useful for delivering strikes on targets near the frontline and border.

thunder-multirole-combat-aircraft-a-fighter-jet-made-in-news-photo-1701456077.jpg

A JF-17 Thunder takes off at the Paris airshow in 2019. Co-produced by China and Pakistan, it’s based on a former U.S.-China project to retrofit a MiG-21 with F-16-style systems. 134 JF-17s and two-seat JF-17Bs serve in the Pakistani Air Force, with 50 on order. Eventually some are expected to take on a nuclear strike role armed with Ra’ad cruise missiles.
NurPhoto//Getty Images

The U.S. does assign a tactical nuclear role to its F-16 jets, which are comparable to the J-10. But a more logical non-stealth candidate for that role would be China’s J-16 heavy fighter (built by the rival Shenyang Aircraft Corporation), which could carry a heavier nuclear payload over much greater distances than a J-10.

Again, though, ‘tactical’ nukes don’t fit with China’s known doctrine. But they do fit with Pakistan’s plans for the use of tactical nuclear weapons in a major ground war with India. And indeed, the JF-17 (which is co-produced in Pakistan) has been seen fitted with Ra’ad air-launched cruise missiles that could deliver nuclear attacks. It’s believed that the JF-17 has been anointed to take on the nuclear-strike role currently held by Pakistan’s aging, French-built Mirages III and V jets.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


Furthermore, a recent model suggests that a new-generation Taimoor missile is being considered for fitting on the JF-17.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


But while Pakistan is clearly exploring a nuclear role for the JF-17, the extent to which Chinese support is involved or necessary is debatable. Nuclear capabilities are so sensitive, it’s likely Pakistan would have to handle the nuclear-wiring of JF-17s on its own—something it likely can do, given numerous other nuclear arms fielded by Islamabad.

A new aircraft with a nuclear role?

Yang’s remark could also have been referring to the studying of nuclear capability for an entirely new and heretofore unknown bomber, drone, or sixth-generation fighter under development by the Chengdu Aircraft Corporation.

Earlier in 2023, China’s AVIC conglomerate showed concept art of a tailless sixth-generation fighter that could succeed the J-20. Furthermore, satellite photos revealed a curious tailless aircraft mockup (or demonstrator) at CAC’s institute 611 research facility.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.


A tailless design could improve all-aspect stealth, making such a plane into a much better penetrating bomber.

A new strike platform would not need to be manned—a drone could be developed faster and more inexpensively. The U.S.’s mysterious RQ-180 drone, for instance, is believed to be a flying wing with a potential nuclear role.

A drone could also be controlled remotely via a two-seat fighter to perform the high-risk penetration part of a nuclear strike mission. And indeed, China is reportedly upgrading its two-seat J-20S fighter for this capability, known as manned-unmanned teaming (MUM-T). But again, a nuclear role for such drones would be a stretch beyond current practices.

All in all, it’s important to remember that Beijing hasn’t historically placed as much importance on tactical nuclear strikes as Russia or the U.S. Of course, however, policies can change abruptly, as was observed with China’s surge in nuclear missile silo construction detected in 2021. The past does not always reveal the future.

 
The funny thing about B-2 Spirit is not that it's such "advanced piece of technology", after all the B-2 is nearly 4 decades old... it's the fact the B-2 is so expensive and complicated to produce and maintain that no one else tried (...or had the money) to make their own.
 
The funny thing about B-2 Spirit is not that it's such "advanced piece of technology", after all the B-2 is nearly 4 decades old... it's the fact the B-2 is so expensive and complicated to produce and maintain that no one else tried (...or had the money) to make their own.
Its expensive because of budget cuts and end of the cold war
 
Personally I really don't see the point of having a VLO bomber being able to enter into enemy airspace. There is no need to fly over top the enemy to drop bombs anymore. I think in the age of standoff weapons, having a greater payload is more important to strike more targets per sortie well outside of the range of opposing air defenses.

My ideal would be something like a redesigned Tu-160 with some LO characteristics.
 
China’s military advances have been notable not only for their technological aspects but also for their speed. According to Yang Wei, this is exemplified in China’s adoption of digital engineering, which enables faster development cycles compared to American methods.

So where is China's airplane better than or even comparable to the B-21?
 
So where is China's airplane better than or even comparable to the B-21?
I don't know, better ask the chief designer, he must know more of the insiders info than you and me.
 
I don't know, better ask the chief designer, he must know more of the insiders info than you and me.

Ah yes. No proof to backup said claims. So typical.

If what he said is indeed true, where are the end-products of such advancement?
 
Ah yes. No proof to backup said claims. So typical.

If what he said is indeed true, where are the end-products of such advancement?
He can be talking BS, I don't know. but such leaked info is worth discussing.

China also holds back all the info on its space plane, but many foreign experts say China has one and at least launched it for 3 times.
Unlike US, China always treats weaponry development as top state secrets which are not meant to be shared.

  • Ministry of State Security says images could give ‘foreign forces’ insight on technical advances and deployments
  • Serious offenders could face up to seven years in prison, it says
 
Last edited:
He can be talking BS, I don't know. but such leaked info is worth discussing.

China also holds back all the info on its space plane, but many foreign experts say China has one and at least launched it for 3 times.
Unlike US, China always treats weaponry development as top state secrets which are not meant to be shared.

I can agree with what you have said above.

An interesting fallout from such comments is that think tanks here take such material and put out hysterical assessments of USA falling behind to ask for more resources to be made available.

What China does with treating cutting edge platforms secret is something USA does as well, so it is perfectly logical. There are platforms far beyond B-21s and F-22s already, but USA designers don't compare them to China or anyone else, knowing where they are in the race. They just keep on working quietly.
 
I can agree with what you have said above.

An interesting fallout from such comments is that think tanks here take such material and put out hysterical assessments of USA falling behind to ask for more resources to be made available.

What China does with treating cutting edge platforms secret is something USA does as well, so it is perfectly logical. There are platforms far beyond B-21s and F-22s already, but USA designers don't compare them to China or anyone else, knowing where they are in the race. They just keep on working quietly.
China keeps giving US "surprises" like the recent chip breakthrough, it seems that China keeps the secrets under the wraps pretty well.
 
China keeps giving US "surprises" like the recent chip breakthrough, it seems that China keeps the secrets under the wraps pretty well.

As I said above, China is not the only one good at such tactics. And again, perfectly logical.
 
My favorite news is when you see such pieces talking about there being more J-20s vs F-22s while completely ignoring the existence of the F-35
 
My favorite news is when you see such pieces talking about there being more J-20s vs F-22s while completely ignoring the existence of the F-35

PSHAAAWWW! The F-35 is a known lemony failure. :D
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Posts

Back
Top