Chinese Type 041 Zhou class mini nuclear submarine reported to have sunk in Wuhan

[hyperman]

There was confusion and disagreement over this boat sinking and they closed the thread citing fake news, but now its not just 1 report, there are several reports, and far more details have come out, to where I don't think its just a rumor, but there is something to this report, and it should be open for discussion.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/26/politics/chinese-nuclear-powered-submarine-sank/index.html

China’s New Nuclear Submarine Sank During Mysterious Incident In Wuhan: Report

A strange incident caught in satellite imagery was indeed a major mishap involving a Chinese submarine, according to a new report. The mysterious incident in China’s Wuchang Shipyard in the spring of this year led to the sinking of the new Zhou class SSN.

www.twz.com

https://www.wsj.com/world/china/chinas-nuclear-submarine-mishap-points-to-challenge-of-catching-up-with-u-s-58721ce9

China’s newest nuclear submarine sank in dock, US officials confirm

Loss of state-of-the-art vessel in May or June is setback to Chinese push for naval parity with US

www.theguardian.com

New Chinese nuclear attack submarine sank during construction, US defense official says

A senior U.S. defense official says satellite imagery shows that China's newest nuclear submarine sank while under construction.

apnews.com

China Covered Up Sinking Of Newest Submarine: US Official

China sought to cover up the sinking of its newest nuclear-powered submarine, a senior US defense official said on Thursday.

www.barrons.com

New Chinese nuclear attack submarine sank, U.S. officials says

The U.S. official said it was "not surprising" that China's navy would conceal it. The submarine's current status is unknown.

www.cbsnews.com

China ‘trying to cover up’ major blunder involving most advanced nuclear submarine

Naval experts and US officials say vessel appears to have sunk in port, and may have been carrying nuclear fuel at the time

www.independent.co.uk

Subscribe to read

www.ft.com

Chinese nuclear submarine sank during construction, US says – DW – 09/27/2024

The Zhou-class attack submarine is China's newest nuclear submarine. Satellite images indicate that it sank between May and June, according to US defense officials.

www.dw.com

https://www.foxnews.com/world/chine...-countrys-newest-nuclear-power-submarine-pier

We Initially thought it was a Type 93B or a Type 95 and the chinese users pointed out that its being build in China Shipbuilding Industry Corporation Bohai Shipyard, Huludao

But this boat was reported sunk Wuchang Shipyard, located near Wuhan in Hubei Province, China.

So people assumed it was fake b/c they assumed that if it was a 093 or 095 it would have been built in Huludao.

But this seems to be the Type 041 Nuclear Submarine.

Type 041 Mini Nuclear Submarine: Unlimited Endurance After a Single Load, Enhancing the Submarine Force’s Combat Power

On the occasion of the 75th anniversary of the founding of the People's Liberation Army Navy of China, the latest news circulating on the internet suggests that a new type of nuclear-powered submarine, equipped with a domestically produced mini nuclear reactor, has been launched by a certain...

www.china-arms.com

It was also posted about in this thread.

N

Thread 'Rumors emerge about China's development of a new Type 041 submarine.'

Jun 29, 2024

Rumors emerge about China's development of a new Type 041 submarine.​

13 May, 2024 - 13:50
Naval News Navy 2024

According to information published by Du Wenlong on May 8, 2024, recent online discussions have been rife with speculation about China's development of a new mini nuclear submarine, dubbed the "Type 041."

Artist rendering of a Chinese submarine. (Picture source: Generated by AI)

Traditionally, nuclear submarines have been...

• Nan Yang
• Replies: 5
• Forum: China & Far East

• 

 

[DoTell]

Here comes the "Who Is The Real Wumao" competition. Winner has to be the biggest paid writer who came up with biggest fake news about China. Results should be apparent in a just a few days.

Ready, set, go!

 

[hyperman]

Here comes the "Who Is The Real Wumao" competition. Winner has to be the biggest paid writer who came up with biggest fake news about China. Results should be apparent in a just a few days.

Ready, set, go!

If it was one report maybe, but the fact that there are so many reports, and that the information is from a intelligence report, which 2 different US inter sources corroborated, there might be some smoke to this fire. The US intelligence services certainly seems to think this boat sunk. You aren't going to be a comment from China, b/c China by default doesn't comment on stuff like this, good or bad news. So I guess make up your own mind.

 

[silicon0000]

Repeat a lie a thousand times and it becomes the truth​

Dear If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. That's why we are seeing so many articles and posts on this old fake news.

 

[hyperman]

Repeat a lie a thousand times and it becomes the truth​

Dear If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. That's why we are seeing so many articles and posts on this old fake news.

why not explain why you think its a lie rather than declare it a lie based on you not liking the news. lol

 

[Shanlung]

DUN PLAY PLAY

LOTS LOTS OF $$$ TO BE GOTTEN FOR FABRICATORS OF FALSE NEWS , BUT MUST BE ON CHINA TO MAKE CHINA LOOK BAD

TRUTH GOT NUTHING BUT NUTHING TO DO WITH GOOD GOOD FAKE NEWS
House passes $1.6 billion to deliver anti-China propaganda overseas
Somehow it’s a crime when Russia does it to us, but good 'information ops' when we want to discredit Beijing’s Belt & Road initiatives worldwide

MARCUS STANLEY
SEP 11, 2024

Since at least 2016, foreign interference in American elections and civil society have become central to American political discourse. The issue is taken extremely seriously by the U.S. government, which has levied sanctions and called out foreign adversaries for sowing “discord and chaos” through their propaganda efforts.

But apparently Washington takes a different view when it comes to American propaganda operations in foreign countries. On Monday, the House passed HR 1157, the “Countering the PRC Malign Influence Fund,” by a bipartisan 351-36 majority. This legislation authorizes more than $1.6 billion for the State Department and USAID over the next five years to, among other purposes, subsidize media and civil society sources around the world that counter Chinese “malign influence” globally.

That’s a massive spend — about twice, for example, the annual operating expenditure of CNN. If passed into law it would also represent a large increase in federal spending on international influence operations. While it’s hard to total all of the spending on U.S. influence operations across agencies, the main coordinating body for U.S. information efforts, the State Department’s Global Engagement Center (GEC), has an annual budget of less than $100 million.

There is obviously no issue with the U.S. government presenting its own public view of what China is doing around the world, and doing so as forcefully as needed. But this bill goes beyond that by subsidizing “independent media and civil society” and other information operations in foreign countries. Indeed, this is already routine. The Global Engagement Center, which will likely play a strong role in implementing the bill, spends more than half its budget on such grants, and USAID, which will also play a lead role, makes grants to foreign media and civil society organizations a key part of its efforts. HR 1157 would supercharge these programs.

Crucially, HR 1157 doesn’t seem to contain any requirement that U.S. government financing to foreign media be made transparent to citizens of foreign countries (although there is a requirement to report grants to certain U.S. congressional committees). Thus, it’s possible that the program could in some cases be used to subsidize covert anti-Chinese messaging in a manner similar to the way Russia is accused of covertly funding anti-Ukrainian messaging by U.S. media influencers.

Such anti-Chinese messaging could cover a wide range of bread-and-butter political issues in foreign countries. The definition of “malign influence” in the bill is extremely broad. For example, program funds could support any effort to highlight the “negative impact” of Chinese economic and infrastructure investment in a foreign country. Or it could fund political messaging against Chinese contractors involved in building a port, road, or hospital, for example as part of Beijing’s globe-spanning Belt and Road Initiative.

Because some dimensions of U.S. information operations could be classified, it can be difficult to get a complete picture of the full range of what they look like on the ground. But a 2021 “vision document” on psychological operations and civil affairs from the First Special Forces Command at Fort Bragg gives a fascinating glimpse.

The document provides a case study (or “competition vignette”) of what an integrated effort to counter Chinese influence could look like in the fictional African country of Naruvu. In the vignette, members of a Special Forces Civil Affairs team spot a billboard with a picture of a port and Chinese characters. Quickly determining that the Chinese are investing in a new deep-water port in Naruvu, the 8th Psyop Group at Fort Bragg’s Information Warfare Center (IWC) works with local and U.S. government partners to immediately develop an influence campaign to “discredit Chinese activities.”

The influence campaign “empowered IWTF [Information Warfare Task Force], in coordination with the JIIM [local and U.S. government partners] to inflame long-standing friction between Naruvian workers and Chinese corporations. Within days, protests supported by the CFT’s ODA [Special Forces Operations Detachment Alpha], erupted around Chinese business headquarters and their embassy in Ajuba. Simultaneously, the IWC-led social media campaign illuminated the controversy.”

Faced with a combined propaganda campaign and intense labor unrest, the Chinese company is forced to back down from its planned port. (Although the vignette continues to an even more Hollywood-ready ending in which U.S. special forces break into the construction company’s offices, confiscate blueprints for the port, and discover that it is actually a Chinese plot to emplace long-range missiles in Naruvu to threaten U.S. Atlantic shipping).

This case study illustrates the extremes information warfare could reach. But of course it is fictional, and most operations funded to counter Chinese influence will be far more mundane and less cinematic. Indeed, some will probably look similar to the activities the U.S. government has bitterly condemned when foreign governments financed them in the U.S. civil society space, such as making social media buys or funding organizations sympathetic to Washington’s perspective.

But it’s still worth thinking about the consequences of such efforts. They are of course likely to make U.S. protests against similar foreign government activities look hypocritical. Beyond that, pumping a flood of potentially undisclosed U.S. government money into anti-Chinese messaging worldwide could backfire by making any organic opposition to Chinese influence appear to be covertly funded U.S. government propaganda rather than genuine expressions of local concern.

As the publics in many nations are likely to be suspicious of U.S. as well as Chinese involvement in their internal affairs, this could easily discredit genuine grassroots opposition to Chinese influence. A historical example is Washington’s funding of Russian civil society groups that criticized the integrity of Russia’s 2011 parliamentary elections. This backfired by allowing Putin to depict the opposition as tools in a U.S. plot and resulted in sharp restrictions on U.S. activity in Russia, including the expulsion of USAID.

Another problem raised by the proposed legislation is the possibility that anti-Chinese propaganda financed by this program will flow back into the American media space and influence American audiences, without any disclosure of its initial source of funding. Protections against U.S. government targeting of domestic audiences are already weak, and what protections do exist are almost impossible to enforce in a networked world where information in other countries is just a click away from U.S. audiences.

It’s easy to imagine U.S.-funded foreign media being used as evidence in domestic debates about China’s international role, or even to attack U.S. voices that advocate for a different view of China that is propagated by a hawkish U.S. government. During the Trump presidency, the State Department’s Global Engagement Center (GEC), a likely recipient of many of these funds, supported attacks on U.S. critics of Trump’s Iran policy. More recently, congressional conservatives have claimed the GEC has advocated for censorship of conservative voices who disagree with Biden’s foreign policies.

The overwhelming bipartisan majority for HR 1157 is a snapshot of a culture in Washington that seems not to see the risk to U.S. values and interests when we engage in the same covert activities that we criticize in other countries.

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AND THIS TOO
And this as well.

More than enuff $$$ to entice the sinking of Chinese subs
in addition to slavery of Uyghers in Xinjiang together with genocide and sales of Uyghers body parts to the world

​

8 hours ago
Since the beginning of this year, the US media has sunk Chinese submarines four times, twice in the Yellow Sea and once in the Taiwan Strait. They sank in funny areas in front of home. This time it sank directly at home. Next time it should be the swimming pool.
See original (Translated by Google)

@lilyliu5345​

6 hours ago (edited)
Ha ha! Shen in Wuchang? Might as well write about the sinking in the Xinjiang desert!

@thndrngest​

8 hours ago
As soon as the 1.6 billion dollar bounty came out, of course everyone started to slander and smear him, and there was a reward! Ha ha !
See original (Translated by Google)

@kanlu5199​

8 hours ago
American experts definitely don’t know where Wuchang is.
See original (Translated by Google)

@richardlau882​

8 hours ago
Wuhan builds a nuclear submarine...why doesn't it build an aircraft carrier in the Great Lakes


See original (Translated by Google)

@郭琴雲​

8 hours ago
What a shame, America, it’s fake news again!
See original (Translated by Google)

@jigangjin7818​

8 hours ago
This kind of rumor is not unusual. Aren’t all the 20 million ethnic minorities in Xinjiang, China, already genocide? The remaining millions have also been imprisoned in concentration camps. Nowadays, the few you see on the streets of Xinjiang The ethnic groups are all played by Han extras. Do you believe it? Believe it or not, I believe it. Didn’t Pompeo say, we cheat, we lie, we steal, and we are proud of it. Americans are so proud, what else can the big wild cat say? Stop talking, let Americans be proud again.
Read moreSee original (Translated by Google)

 

[Thinking]

Well this might be a fake news, but you know China, they will never admit it.

 

[silicon0000]

why not explain why you think its a lie rather than declare it a lie based on you not liking the news. lol

This news has nothing related to liking or disliking. It's just its the same news which is already proved fake many months ago and because your fake and foolishness is caught so now just change the submarine type and try to correct your old news. There isn't any proof of this news except trust me bro I am saying right and see how many times I am saying this. Better if they come up with some solid proof and not "many unknown sources claim" thing.

 

[Shanlung]

War Street Journal fabricates LIES?

google translate

Wildcat Politics 2037: Wall Street Journal - China's new nuclear submarine sank due to slipway accident; Dongfeng-31AG allowed the United States to break its defenses and save face by creating false news

 

[DoTell]

If it was one report maybe, but the fact that there are so many reports, and that the information is from a intelligence report, which 2 different US inter sources corroborated, there might be some smoke to this fire. The US intelligence services certainly seems to think this boat sunk. You aren't going to be a comment from China, b/c China by default doesn't comment on stuff like this, good or bad news. So I guess make up your own mind.

Obviously multiple "credible" media sources have reported the story. Hence the "competition". But no mouthpiece, however "credible", can change the fact the Wuchang Shipyard is located inland, some 600 hundred miles from the pacific ocean. The shipyard isn't capable of building nuclear submarines. Who in the right mind would nuclear submarines so far inland???

 

[DoTell]

Here is the map Wuchang shipyard location

 

[Beijingwalker]

They also report the both Shandong and Fujian carriers have cracks on their decks and three gorges dam will soon collapse... whatever makes them happy, we just see those clowns perform.

 

[hyperman]

Well this might be a fake news, but you know China, they will never admit it.

Well obviously they will never admit it, they don't comment in official capacity on anything relating to defense matters.

But its very plausible given the details coming out.

This is a satelite pic of the boat in the same shipyard.

Really the only thing they can realistically say is it wasn't nuclear, as the submarines that get built in this shipyard are usually conventional diesel submarines, but the 041 was announced as a nuclear sub by the very same chinese ppl saying its fake news now. The US intelligence report also thinks its a nuclear boat.

 

[hyperman]

This news has nothing related to liking or disliking. It's just its the same news which is already proved fake many months ago and because your fake and foolishness is caught so now just change the submarine type and try to correct your old news. There isn't any proof of this news except trust me bro I am saying right and see how many times I am saying this. Better if they come up with some solid proof and not "many unknown sources claim" thing.

Who said the submarine type? That was speculation on internet. The actual report is the one that came out recently.

And how did you "prove it false" last time? lol

US intelligence reports are the ones being cited now, not random people on the internet observing things.

This is the same submarine at the shipyard before it sunk.

 

[silicon0000]

Obviously multiple "credible" media sources have reported the story. Hence the "competition". But no mouthpiece, however "credible", can change the fact the Wuchang Shipyard is located inland, some 600 hundred miles from the pacific ocean. The shipyard isn't capable of building nuclear submarines. Who in the right mind would nuclear submarines so far inland???

This time they change the Submarine type and Next time they will change the shipyard to justify this fake news.