Deino
INT'L MOD
- Nov 9, 2014
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Where did I spread fake?
Egypt International Airshow 2024
- Thread starter Sami_1
- Start date
Where did I spread fake?
The SC
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He talks about the Existing JVs like the K-8 and drones and also the potential new JVs.. and Yes he mentioned that an agreement was signed on August 19 between the Chinese armed forces and the Egyptian armed forces regarding an advanced fighter jet that Sissi himself was interested in..
Deino
INT'L MOD
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Then - as in the Ukraine- and Russia-threads and everywhere with you - present a "potential" and projects, plans and aspirations as what it is, and not as facts!
I do not question any countries potential, dreams and plans ...
But the point is: You are using again overhyped headlines as proven facts, you spread rumours as already confirmed contracts, you get into an argument about this difference on semantics instead of simply admitting you are wrong.
And that's what I call spreading deliberately fake, lies and propaganda ... all not worth a moderator!
@Musings
The SC
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I can see that's all you wish for ..is to wrong me..you won't succeed..because I post only facts,, It just happen that you can't believe them for you personal reasons..
The SC
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Ask him..because La Tribune a reliable French source was talking about the possible manufacture of the Rafale in Egypt..
And
He talks about the Existing JVs like the K-8 and drones and also the potential new JVs.. and Yes he mentioned that an agreement was signed on August 19 between the Chinese armed forces and the Egyptian armed forces regarding an advanced fighter jet that Sissi himself was interested in..
All facts.. but he can't believe them..even from the source..
Michael
Think Tank Analyst
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In the face of this kind of problem, the following analysis method can help you solve your troubles. You can try to analyze it with this method.
What do roosters have to do with Eagle Dynamics
The question here is simple - with all of the Chinese aviation fans who look out at different development sites taking pictures and discussing among themselves - there is still only consensus on one prototype.
Then, let’s assume that prototype has provided all the data needed since digital twinning allows for verification of a lot of flight parameters - there is still the aspect of a production line.
This isn’t a small UAV you 3d print everything and even with that approach those take a while to scale.
So where did all the jigs for...
- Thread starter
- #114
First, Egypt announces deals whenever it wants very simply. When Egypt bought the LHD ships deal, it was the last expected customer.
Between Egypt and China, what appears to be the tip of the iceberg is that many of the systems that announce cooperation with China have been present for many years, such as the Chinese CHL-906 radars that were serving in Egypt before 2013, and the Chinese ASN-301 drones for nearly 15 years, and what is happening in terms of agreements related to the development of Chinese systems from radars and electronic warfare systems and Chinese radars in cooperation with the ABD factory and the re-production of cheap versions on a wide system of ASN-301 aircraft for the local market and export to African countries.
Regarding fighter deals with China, news has been circulating since 2022, whether to purchase the J-10C aircraft or Egypt obtaining the FC-31 aircraft.
Recently, there was information that after China produced the WS-15 engine on a large scale, it will allow the J-20 aircraft for export and negotiations with 4 countries, in alphabetical order: Algeria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Emirates
Egypt What is known about its plans we get from the Israeli side in what it publishes. The Israelis said in 2021 that Egypt requested about 30 SU-57E aircraft. The Russian side was late in developing the AL-51 engine and the required electronic equipment and its low production capacity. The Russians actually focused on increasing the production of Su-30/35 aircraft to meet the needs of the Russian market and export is a later stage.
So Egypt buying Chinese aircraft is not unlikely. Egypt was one of the only countries that obtained the Chinese H-6 bomber. The classification of Egyptian-Chinese relations is greater than that of average countries, given that Egypt possesses many characteristics. The largest country in the Middle East, its location, the size of its market, the historical relations between Egypt and China, and agreement on most international files, in addition to a huge economic cooperation program that is being arranged, and also in addition to state competition. China is not the only producer of fighters, even if other parties have pressure to export weapons on Egypt.
As we see, the number of J-20 aircraft is limited. Egypt requested 15 of them simply for many reasons. China will not export large numbers at the same time, despite The Chinese production line may have reached a level greater than 100 aircraft annually, so Egypt's purchase of the aircraft in batches is expected.
We come to Egypt's request to produce a main aircraft, as there is international competition. The Turks have the KAAN project, and Israel plans to obtain 100 F-35 aircraft, and perhaps more in the future.
Therefore, Egypt requested to engage in the FC-31 export aircraft production project to replace the Egyptian fourth-generation F-16 & MIRAGE-2000 fighters, and also for export.
That is, the armament package is logical, and since the Egyptian president was interested in the FC-31 fighter program, Egypt requested updates to the aircraft's specifications, and this is the reason for the Chinese side's statement that they are working to reach it. Egypt has its policy, as negotiations with the Chinese side for huge deals with Egypt make any supplier salivate.
One of the indicators of completing contracts with China
The Korean wing was almost ignored because it did not meet Egyptian demands.
The Chinese side is interested in cooperating with Egypt because exports to Egypt are a blow to the American arms market, which will give credibility to Chinese fighters As long as it has purchased one of the largest air forces in the world, China has established itself as a reliable source of fighters. Egypt is also implementing huge contracts with China because Egypt will reposition itself in Africa and has files such as eliminating Ethiopian influence in the Horn of Africa and breaking its ambitions to market itself as a tool of pressure and provocation for Egypt, especially in the matter of international rivers. China is against international river laws because it seizes the waters of the rivers crossing and considers it against its interests. Egypt neutralizes China by providing alternatives to Chinese investments in Ethiopia and eliminating American plans to create a passage for goods through the port of Berbero and railways to the countries of the African coast and ports there, ignoring the Hariki Road and the Egyptian Suez Canal. Therefore, Egypt is going to Somalia to carry out a military strike on Ethiopia. It is also necessary to neutralize the Chinese and Russian sides in the following. Huge economic deals between Egypt and China and large military deals that are beneficial to the interests of all parties. We come to some people’s rejection of these deals and claim that Egypt is poor. There are countries and individuals who see that Egypt is returning to its natural international size. They reject this whether out of hatred, competition or grudges, all of this does not matter in the end what is achieved and implemented in favor of Egypt, even the statements and announcement of deals between Egypt and China and Egypt and Russia are disciplined and specific, so it is only specified or what is wanted to be announced, so the matter is not final, so we see the Israeli screaming about the Egyptian deals and the American objection and threats because Egypt's arms deals caused damage to the American arms industry, so the existence of the KA-52 as an alternative to the AH-64E aircraft at a quarter of the price is a disaster for American arms companies, especially the Russian and Egyptian armament packages with the aircraft, the same thing, an aircraft like the MIG-29M is equipped with several missiles such as the KH-59MK2 / KH-69 and huge numbers of the Kh-36 Grom-E1 missile in addition to conventional ammunition, and the success of Egypt's RAFALE aircraft internationally at the expense of countries' tendencies to buy American fighters, but the criticism of the Egyptian military of American weapons such as the ineffectiveness of the PATRIOT missiles or the decline in the operating efficiency of the F-35 fighters in itself is against the marketing of American weapons in the global market some The American circumstances are ending conflicts to force countries to buy its weapons, such as the Aquarian war and Iranian threats.
So you, as Egypt, are in a crucible of conflicts, and at the same time, Egypt is returning to its nature and its presence in Africa as markets and centers of influence.
And it clashes with many Western countries, Iran and the Emirates, which makes Egypt create alliances with China, huge cooperation programs. Let us explain a simple example. During the next ten years, Egypt will buy
50-60 J-10C/D aircraft worth between 3-4 billion dollars.
60 J-20 aircraft worth 7.5 billion dollars.
120 FC-31 aircraft worth 10 billion dollars.
Any fighter deals worth 20 billion dollars for China, in addition to licenses to produce a package of Chinese ammunition and spare parts, and they will be completed within 40 years, which means 40 billion dollars during the next forty years.
In addition to the arms cooperation programs in land systems, air defense and drones, Egypt is the largest customer of Chinese drones outside China. Egypt was not only the largest customer of the K-8E aircraft. China offered Egypt to produce the L-15 aircraft since 2010 and is still strongly offering it with the best financial and technical offer. Simply put, it knows that the Egyptian defense market is large. Egypt collects Chinese drones because Chinese factories, for example, produce 200 Chinese WING LOONG aircraft annually in one production line, and the queue for customers is long. Therefore, it allows countries with large demands to produce locally. In addition, China is re-paying its international sales. Egypt, the CH-4 drone management center, operates the larger CH-5 model. In addition, China has introduced an updated CH-4E aircraft to replace aircraft that fall during operations or during training. Egypt's huge purchases of Chinese drones provided more funding for China to develop its production, which made the Americans out of the market in the Gulf when it found the prices of drones The Chinese pilot is cheaper and without political restrictions, ignoring the American MQ-9 aircraft, so America lost international markets to China and other countries such as Turkey, as China is accustomed to benefiting from American and European restrictions.
We come to another point, Egypt will sign an additional deal for the Rafale for many reasons. Egypt does not depend on a single fighter supplier because it may simply impose restrictions on exports to Egypt and restrictions on spare parts and ammunition.
Our child is a simple example. Europe and countries such as Germany stopped exporting weapons to Egypt. Egypt ignored the German Chancellor and even economic cooperation with Germany and its expansion. The result is that after two years, the German president comes with a delegation of large German companies to open a new chapter in cooperation with Egypt. The same thing happened with President Macron when Egypt stopped the deal to purchase 12 Rafale aircraft. When he moderated its dealings with Egypt, Egypt signed a second deal for 30 aircraft.
Egypt does not submit to a single supplier or military cooperation with a single country. Ignoring the Korean side at the exhibition is due to the lack of agreement on the KF-21 aircraft, and perhaps Egypt The Chinese fighters were reconsidered when they found that the Koreans were under pressure from America.
So the L-15 was reconsidered and the presence of the Turkish side in the HURJET plane is useful in pressuring other suppliers, although Egypt does not want to buy a plane that has served for years, but it is a huge tool on the Chinese side. Also, because of the American GE F-404 engines, Egypt expects there to be American pressure in many stages, such as spare parts and engine replacement, so staying away from any American component is better.
The Russian side is re-offering the SU-57E plane to Egypt and claims that it has completed the development of the plane, but the delivery date is longer. The Russians have an annual production volume of 24 SU-57 planes, and the Russians have an order for Algeria as well, in addition to 76, which makes deliveries delayed. As we see, things become complicated and change, but Egypt seeks to order its needs. As for some people considering that Egypt will not be able and is poor, this is a result of their countries’ inability to challenge Egypt or reach a level similar to the Egyptian Air Force or challenge it in the first place. As a country, we do not submit to pressure. Any country after bitter experiences with international arms suppliers over many years
Oublious
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lol
what is the source of this? Selling it to a country is 1 thing but giving the techology is another thing.
China is the last country in the world who will give ToT, you can go talk with Western world and ask offset work in a project you will get it but China never.
How did the last project with KSA and Chinse winlong project ended? Nothing came out of it.
The SC
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Deino
INT'L MOD
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No need to argue, you won‘t get an explanation since in his opinion there is always total ToT in any joint venture even more so when the source is just „Egypt International Airshow 2024“.
Let‘s wait and see if & when credible sources report this and what comes out in the end!
Is there any concrete source for Egypt getting Meteor other than speculation? I haven't seen it yet.
Apperantly, LRIP missiles were delivered to TurAF few days ago.
It is unlikely they will buy 952 AIM-120C-8. It is well know tactics to get the approval for maximum numbers of equipments from Congress+state department at once so you don't have do it all over again in the future if new procurement needs arrive.
Türkiye can't integrate it's own weapon system onboard new F16s as well as those that would be upgraded to block 70 standard. They will have 120 F16 that would require US wepaons. Rest of the aircrafts modernized locally will have local weapon package.
Michael
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@Deino @The SC
I will not completely rule out this idea: Egypt or Pakistan to build FC31 production line.
This kind of thing is possible when they meet certain conditions.
I'll try to analyze what is needed:
1. Their relations with China must be friendly politically and militarily.
------ this question, it seems simple, but it is actually very complicated. I will not analyze in detail here.
2. Sufficient market and capital.
------ do they have enough money to bring in this line? The traditional production mode of FC31 is not allowed to be produced outside of China, it can only be produced outside China in the form of a pulsating production line. Pulsating production lines require a very large upfront investment.
------ do they have enough customers (this is relevant to the international diplomacy of these countries)? The input and output of the pulsating production line are very large. Without enough customers, these investments are completely unrecoverable. If it is only for its own military use, with the needs of the Pakistan Air Force or the Egypt Air Force, it must be much cheaper to buy directly from SAC.
------If you don't know the pulsating production line, you can refer to it. In recent years, the speed and number of J20/J16/J10C/Y20 in service in the PLA.
The FC31 is an export-oriented fighter with a purely digital modular design, so you don't have to worry about leaks. You just have to treat it as an expensive generic commodity.
I will not completely rule out this idea: Egypt or Pakistan to build FC31 production line.
This kind of thing is possible when they meet certain conditions.
I'll try to analyze what is needed:
1. Their relations with China must be friendly politically and militarily.
------ this question, it seems simple, but it is actually very complicated. I will not analyze in detail here.
2. Sufficient market and capital.
------ do they have enough money to bring in this line? The traditional production mode of FC31 is not allowed to be produced outside of China, it can only be produced outside China in the form of a pulsating production line. Pulsating production lines require a very large upfront investment.
------ do they have enough customers (this is relevant to the international diplomacy of these countries)? The input and output of the pulsating production line are very large. Without enough customers, these investments are completely unrecoverable. If it is only for its own military use, with the needs of the Pakistan Air Force or the Egypt Air Force, it must be much cheaper to buy directly from SAC.
------If you don't know the pulsating production line, you can refer to it. In recent years, the speed and number of J20/J16/J10C/Y20 in service in the PLA.
The FC31 is an export-oriented fighter with a purely digital modular design, so you don't have to worry about leaks. You just have to treat it as an expensive generic commodity.
Deino
INT'L MOD
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I agree on almost everything, since that's what the FC-31/J-31 is made for: EXPORT!
But ... to portray as if it is already a done deal, as if Egypt once had a fighter production (namely the HA-300) and as such is experienced and what needs to be done is to refurbish the hall is both factual false and impossible especially for the production of a high-end 5th generation fighter. Even more so it will at best be an "assembly in Egypt" with certain parts manufactured locally but not a full transfer of technology! To believe this, is as naive as to think India would get full ToT for the GE engines!
And even more ... that all AFTER the PLAN has its own J-35 in service!
By the way, can anyone confirm?
Would be indeed a major success!
So congrats if true … and he also mentioned, Egypt might be interested in acquiring Y-20 transports.
PS: Some Chinese friends however say it's 假新闻！(FAKE) ... maybe @Michael knows more.
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