• To help us reduce spam registrations, we kindly request new users to avoid using VPNs during sign-up. Accounts created via VPN may not be approved.

Indian Employers Are Stubbornly Obsessed With Elite Students—And It's Hurting Them

313Ghazi

Frequent Poster
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
14,045
Reaction score
29,991
Country of Origin
Country of Residence
In his 2016 book Alibaba: The House That Jack Ma Built, author Duncan Clark wrote about how the founder of one of the world’s biggest e-commerce companies hires.

When building up his team Jack preferred hiring people a notch or two below the top performers in their schools. The college elite, Jack explained, would easily get frustrated when they encountered the difficulties of the real world.
Hiring strategies at Indian companies couldn’t be more different. Not only do they want to hire the top performers, they want to hire them from elite colleges such as the Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs) or the Indian Institutes of Management (IIMs). A top e-commerce firm in the country is even notorious for hiring its early team from a specific hostel at IIT Delhi.

All over the world, employers like to hire people who are similar to them. In India, however, they do so without an iota of guilt or embarrassment. Most tech founders, often graduates of top schools themselves, publicly and proudly declare that hiring from an IIT is the “most natural thing” for them to do.

Part of the bias comes from years of brainwashing by Indian middle-class parents, who convince their children that their success, self-worth, and marriage prospects are directly tied to the college they attend. As a result, it is not uncommon for college elites to suffer from a massive God’s-gift-to-capitalism complex. As an extension, they tend to trust, invest in, or mentor only people like themselves.

While there is a widespread perception that institutes such as IITs and BITS Pilani celebrate meritocracy, it may not be entirely accurate. Where and to whom one is born often plays a role in deciding where one studies, especially since the route to top universities is paved with expensive cram school fees.

Given the competitive selection processes they undergo, engineers or managers from premier universities do bring a lot to the table, from academic excellence to a strong alumni network. They also typically have sharper soft skills, especially fluency in English, still critical to success in corporate India.
However, those who go to non-elite schools tend to bring to the table something else of great value: a need to prove themselves.

“Graduates from tier 2 or tier 3 schools have a hunger to over-compensate for what they perceive they lack,” says Dinesh Jain, who has been CEO of organizations such as Nissan Motor-India and Zee Turner. He now runs IndianMaze Advisory, a strategy firm, and wrote on LinkedIn recently about the benefits of hiring from smaller towns and colleges.

“They have seen their counterparts from larger cities with ‘privileges’ and they want to achieve all that and more. Therefore, they are far more driven,” he wrote.

Hiring from lesser-known colleges can benefit companies in surprising ways. Those from better schools are usually uncompromising about the types of jobs they want: well-paid, intellectually-stimulating, cutting-edge. That leaves plenty of lower-level roles available for their less academically advanced peers, who can make productive use of the opportunity. “After four to five years, the grassroots level worker has a superior understanding of the ecosystem and can make a significant contribution to the company’s overall strategy,” writes Jain.

More importantly, as Indian startups expand into markets beyond major cities, the experience and knowledge that people from smaller towns and colleges possess becomes arguably more important to a company’s success. By hiring only from elite colleges, which have severely skewed gender and caste ratios, companies are unlikely to get on board diverse perspectives.

“You cannot continue to hire people based on ‘feels’,” says Apurv Agrawal, founder of workflow automation platform Squad. “You cannot build a large business based on inputs from just one section of the society,” adds Agrawal, who graduated from Vellore Institute of Technology.

This realization is creeping up on bigger companies as well.

“Companies like Flipkart…have a very diverse customer base. That means we have as many women shopping through e-commerce as men. We have as many from a tier-3, tier-4, or a village, shopping as a metro. The same sort of diversity in our employee fabric becomes critical for our success,” says Phanimohan Kalagara, senior vice-president of product and engineering at Flipkart Online. He did not go to an IIT, he adds.

How can employers become better judges of talent? Fighting years of conditioning and biases at the time of recruiting is hard, yet rewarding. I spoke to a few entrepreneurs about some practical measures companies can take while hiring.


Ask “Out of Syllabus” Questions​

Anirudh Pandita, founder of digital entertainment company Pocket Aces, likes to ask candidates about things completely unrelated to the job profile in question, querying prospective coders, product designers, or scriptwriters on topics like:

  • How does an elevator work?
  • How will you explain this technology to your grandmother?
The intent is to see how candidates react to unexpected situations. “Even if they don’t know the technical answer, I just want to see how they behave,” says Pandita, who has an MBA from The Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. “It helps me figure out if they are the right cultural fit for our organization or not.”
He looks for people who have the humility to receive feedback and know it when they are wrong, a quality some top academic performers may not possess.

Look for Spikes in the Resume​

Given the rapid changes in technology and an evolving business world, what one learns in college can be outdated even by the time of graduation. It is important for employers to gauge an applicant’s curiosity and willingness to learn by looking at other activities on their resumes. Look, for example, at the quality of the internships or online courses a candidate has participated in.

“No engineer can say, ‘I can’t write as good a code as an IIT-ian’ now, because of online learning,” says Squad’s Agrawal. “I have met candidates from unknown colleges in places like Bareilly who have read more books on physics and philosophy than anyone I know.”


Find People Who Have Failed​

New entrepreneurs told me about a lesser-known problem with good students, especially those who have been top performers since kindergarten: They don’t know what it is to fail. To build something truly big, a startup founder needs a team that can handle failure. As Alibaba’s Ma told an audience in Nairobi: “If you cannot get used to failure—just like a boxer—if you can’t get used to (being) hit, how can you win?”

Mentor​

For those who’ve found professional success despite graduating from less-famous colleges, there’s a way of giving back: become a brand ambassador for your alma mater.
Go back and mentor students and let them know about the expectations they will face in the modern Indian workplace. “When I graduated from IIFT in 1986, it wasn’t what it is today,” notes Jain. “Not many blue-chip companies recruited from there. It would be a similar story for colleges like IMT Ghaziabad.”

The investment is worth it, for you and your company, because these graduates will remember that you picked them when no one else did.



=====================================


I don't really know very much about Indian corporate culture. I've worked with Infosys and TCS before and felt the culture of the companies was toxic but the employees I worked with were fantastic. Maybe some of our Indian members can comment on how thier experiences align with what is written in this article?
 
Tbf to them, is this not true also in Pakistan and around the world? I know for sure that the top companies preferring hiring from NUST, NED, UET (Depending on region) rather than second rate universities. It's also true in Europe that the top universities will always have their graduates more highly coveted than second rate ones. That said, hiring exclusively from those universities is probably dumb as well.


When building up his team Jack preferred hiring people a notch or two below the top performers in their schools. The college elite, Jack explained, would easily get frustrated when they encountered the difficulties of the real world.
This part, good for Jack, but that's also unfair on the top performers.
 
My experience working Indians in I.T. in the US and Australia is that about 10% are excellent, 50% are average and 40% are below average.
P.S. I would apply the same %s to any group unless the hiring process was very strict, with skills testing during the interview.
 
Last edited:
so this is really funny when a worlds richest IMF lender nations citizen is telling worlds fastest growing economy that your corporate envoirment is "TOXIC" well its like that everywhere and its called compition cause everyone wants the TOP job and so called "corner office " be lit HCL or Wipro or TCS or infosys ... well they are just in software and IT field and indian corporates are in ports and shippings/transpoting industries and other related service industries and financial industries as well as manufacturing like Iron and steel and alluminium /alloys and auto industries and realted manufacturing besides textile /garments and agro based industries

so there are many different industries all very differnt from others and Indian education is not just about IIT and IIMs or Medical ... they are the most glorified ones which attarct only 15% jobs there is much much more than that to indian corporates which fortunately pakistanies cant even imagine ... thank you jinnah for that ;) :P
 
so this is really funny when a worlds richest IMF lender nations citizen is telling worlds fastest growing economy that your corporate envoirment is "TOXIC" well its like that everywhere and its called compition cause everyone wants the TOP job and so called "corner office " be lit HCL or Wipro or TCS or infosys ... well they are just in software and IT field and indian corporates are in ports and shippings/transpoting industries and other related service industries and financial industries as well as manufacturing like Iron and steel and alluminium /alloys and auto industries and realted manufacturing besides textile /garments and agro based industries
So you're saying that the culture (That Pakistan also has) of working from 9 to 9 or sometimes even longer is not toxic?

This culture is not there in the IT field of India which is the growing one, but in all other sectors, it is present. I have studied with many Indians in my life, and those not in IT have the same gruelling hours that you would see in Pakistan. It is toxic. It just is growing at the same time.

There is also something that Indians (And Pakistanis) ignore in that the western countries have already grown so there growth rate will be lower, but still stable, while India and Pakistan are still developing countries that need to have a high growth rate, so that has nothing to do with work environment.
 
In his 2016 book Alibaba: The House That Jack Ma Built, author Duncan Clark wrote about how the founder of one of the world’s biggest e-commerce companies hires.


Hiring strategies at Indian companies couldn’t be more different. Not only do they want to hire the top performers, they want to hire them from elite colleges such as the Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs) or the Indian Institutes of Management (IIMs). A top e-commerce firm in the country is even notorious for hiring its early team from a specific hostel at IIT Delhi.

All over the world, employers like to hire people who are similar to them. In India, however, they do so without an iota of guilt or embarrassment. Most tech founders, often graduates of top schools themselves, publicly and proudly declare that hiring from an IIT is the “most natural thing” for them to do.

Part of the bias comes from years of brainwashing by Indian middle-class parents, who convince their children that their success, self-worth, and marriage prospects are directly tied to the college they attend. As a result, it is not uncommon for college elites to suffer from a massive God’s-gift-to-capitalism complex. As an extension, they tend to trust, invest in, or mentor only people like themselves.

While there is a widespread perception that institutes such as IITs and BITS Pilani celebrate meritocracy, it may not be entirely accurate. Where and to whom one is born often plays a role in deciding where one studies, especially since the route to top universities is paved with expensive cram school fees.

Given the competitive selection processes they undergo, engineers or managers from premier universities do bring a lot to the table, from academic excellence to a strong alumni network. They also typically have sharper soft skills, especially fluency in English, still critical to success in corporate India.
However, those who go to non-elite schools tend to bring to the table something else of great value: a need to prove themselves.

“Graduates from tier 2 or tier 3 schools have a hunger to over-compensate for what they perceive they lack,” says Dinesh Jain, who has been CEO of organizations such as Nissan Motor-India and Zee Turner. He now runs IndianMaze Advisory, a strategy firm, and wrote on LinkedIn recently about the benefits of hiring from smaller towns and colleges.

“They have seen their counterparts from larger cities with ‘privileges’ and they want to achieve all that and more. Therefore, they are far more driven,” he wrote.

Hiring from lesser-known colleges can benefit companies in surprising ways. Those from better schools are usually uncompromising about the types of jobs they want: well-paid, intellectually-stimulating, cutting-edge. That leaves plenty of lower-level roles available for their less academically advanced peers, who can make productive use of the opportunity. “After four to five years, the grassroots level worker has a superior understanding of the ecosystem and can make a significant contribution to the company’s overall strategy,” writes Jain.

More importantly, as Indian startups expand into markets beyond major cities, the experience and knowledge that people from smaller towns and colleges possess becomes arguably more important to a company’s success. By hiring only from elite colleges, which have severely skewed gender and caste ratios, companies are unlikely to get on board diverse perspectives.

“You cannot continue to hire people based on ‘feels’,” says Apurv Agrawal, founder of workflow automation platform Squad. “You cannot build a large business based on inputs from just one section of the society,” adds Agrawal, who graduated from Vellore Institute of Technology.

This realization is creeping up on bigger companies as well.

“Companies like Flipkart…have a very diverse customer base. That means we have as many women shopping through e-commerce as men. We have as many from a tier-3, tier-4, or a village, shopping as a metro. The same sort of diversity in our employee fabric becomes critical for our success,” says Phanimohan Kalagara, senior vice-president of product and engineering at Flipkart Online. He did not go to an IIT, he adds.

How can employers become better judges of talent? Fighting years of conditioning and biases at the time of recruiting is hard, yet rewarding. I spoke to a few entrepreneurs about some practical measures companies can take while hiring.


Ask “Out of Syllabus” Questions​

Anirudh Pandita, founder of digital entertainment company Pocket Aces, likes to ask candidates about things completely unrelated to the job profile in question, querying prospective coders, product designers, or scriptwriters on topics like:

  • How does an elevator work?
  • How will you explain this technology to your grandmother?
The intent is to see how candidates react to unexpected situations. “Even if they don’t know the technical answer, I just want to see how they behave,” says Pandita, who has an MBA from The Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. “It helps me figure out if they are the right cultural fit for our organization or not.”
He looks for people who have the humility to receive feedback and know it when they are wrong, a quality some top academic performers may not possess.

Look for Spikes in the Resume​

Given the rapid changes in technology and an evolving business world, what one learns in college can be outdated even by the time of graduation. It is important for employers to gauge an applicant’s curiosity and willingness to learn by looking at other activities on their resumes. Look, for example, at the quality of the internships or online courses a candidate has participated in.

“No engineer can say, ‘I can’t write as good a code as an IIT-ian’ now, because of online learning,” says Squad’s Agrawal. “I have met candidates from unknown colleges in places like Bareilly who have read more books on physics and philosophy than anyone I know.”


Find People Who Have Failed​

New entrepreneurs told me about a lesser-known problem with good students, especially those who have been top performers since kindergarten: They don’t know what it is to fail. To build something truly big, a startup founder needs a team that can handle failure. As Alibaba’s Ma told an audience in Nairobi: “If you cannot get used to failure—just like a boxer—if you can’t get used to (being) hit, how can you win?”

Mentor​

For those who’ve found professional success despite graduating from less-famous colleges, there’s a way of giving back: become a brand ambassador for your alma mater.
Go back and mentor students and let them know about the expectations they will face in the modern Indian workplace. “When I graduated from IIFT in 1986, it wasn’t what it is today,” notes Jain. “Not many blue-chip companies recruited from there. It would be a similar story for colleges like IMT Ghaziabad.”

The investment is worth it, for you and your company, because these graduates will remember that you picked them when no one else did.



=====================================


I don't really know very much about Indian corporate culture. I've worked with Infosys and TCS before and felt the culture of the companies was toxic but the employees I worked with were fantastic. Maybe some of our Indian members can comment on how thier experiences align with what is written in this article?
Need to reply long. Can you wait a couple of hours, or must it be NOW?
 
So you're saying that the culture (That Pakistan also has) of working from 9 to 9 or sometimes even longer is not toxic?

This culture is not there in the IT field of India which is the growing one, but in all other sectors, it is present. I have studied with many Indians in my life, and those not in IT have the same gruelling hours that you would see in Pakistan. It is toxic. It just is growing at the same time.

There is also something that Indians (And Pakistanis) ignore in that the western countries have already grown so there growth rate will be lower, but still stable, while India and Pakistan are still developing countries that need to have a high growth rate, so that has nothing to do with work environment.
so your point is its bad with suth asian cultuar to work 10 hours daily five or six days a week .... how is that toxic i guess its natural dont you eat daily ...?
 
so your point is its bad with suth asian cultuar to work 10 hours daily five or six days a week .... how is that toxic i guess its natural dont you eat daily ...?
Yes, it is not healthy in the long term, it is also why we suffer more with heart problems, diabetes, and the like, no time to exercise, no time to have a social life. I could go into it a lot more, but the thing is, the west has a lot more free time.

There is also a proven fact that in fields like IT, coding, you work better in short bursts rather than sitting in front of something for 12 hours a day.

Do you really believe this culture is good? That a father comes back from work at 9 to 10 pm, has no time to spend with his kids and the only effect he has on his kids lives is just earning the money for them? Six days a week means kids only see the parent on weekends. If both parents are working, it's even worse.

The west has two parent households that just work because of normal work hours, rather than both of them working a gruelling job. Added hours add anxiety, stress, and more.

There is a lot of research on working hours, and no research has found that working such hours is good for the body, in fact, quite the opposite.

As for comparison to eating food, that is asinine, eating food is a required activity for sustenance, an activity that is also pleasurable, work is demonstrably neither of these things.
 
Tbf to them, is this not true also in Pakistan and around the world? I know for sure that the top companies preferring hiring from NUST, NED, UET (Depending on region) rather than second rate universities. It's also true in Europe that the top universities will always have their graduates more highly coveted than second rate ones. That said, hiring exclusively from those universities is probably dumb as well.



This part, good for Jack, but that's also unfair on the top performers.

I don't know much about the corporate culture in Pakistan.

To me the article made sense - I think it's important to have a blend of people.

Need to reply long. Can you wait a couple of hours, or must it be NOW?
Reply at your leisure.
 
I don't know much about the corporate culture in Pakistan.
Well as someone who has worked in Pak, in terms of hiring and hours, it's almost exactly the same as the worst of Indian culture. I would say we are a tiny bit better in that we just don't care for the most part, but that's on the employee part rather than the expectation and culture part.
 
so your point is its bad with suth asian cultuar to work 10 hours daily five or six days a week .... how is that toxic i guess its natural dont you eat daily ...

I think it's bad to work that long. The concept of work life balance is emphasised in the UK and Europe.

I do an intensive job and if I worked 12 hour days my performance towards the end of the day would be worse than my performance at the start of the day.

In developed countries (other than the US) the focus is now on doing more in less time to have happier workers.
 
In india the difference between Tier 1 ( IIT / IIM) and Tier 2 is vast.
So the hiring companies don't want to take any chance .
 
I think it's bad to work that long. The concept of work life balance is emphasised in the UK and Europe.

I do an intensive job and if I worked 12 hour days my performance towards the end of the day would be worse than my performance at the start of the day.

In developed countries (other than the US) the focus is now on doing more in less time to have happier workers.

It is changing even in the developed world.

Both in the US and in Australia, whenever I worked in a project with lots of Indians or Filipinos, they brought the work culture with them: deliberately overloading workers and expecting long hours. The white bosses didn't want to interfere too much.

I know Indian-Americans who avoid projects with too many Indians, especially Indian managers. The same would be true of Pakistani managers or Filipino managers.
 
It is changing even in the developed world.

Both in the US and in Australia, whenever I worked in a project with lots of Indians or Filipinos, they brought the work culture with them: deliberately overloading workers and expecting long hours. The white bosses didn't want to interfere too much.

I know Indian-Americans who avoid projects with too many Indians, especially Indian managers. The same would be true of Pakistani managers or Filipino managers.

I've not had the misfortune of work with such people. I think strong culture within a company protects workers from individuals.
 
For all those Pakistanis who keep gloating about so called Indian IT Industry but firget the step by step growth and who were the people responsible .... here is a clip how Andhras then Chief ministr personally went way out to bring Microsoft tech centre in India in early 2000s

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Country Watch Latest

Back
Top