India's Nuclear Arsenal Surpasses Pakistan's After 15-20 Years: SIPRI

[Raj-Hindustani]

Actually it doesn't. It's heavily mountainous (61%) which act as natural barriers to fallout and can be places where facilities can be built and safe somewhat from assault.

I was referring to major cities, at both the sides -anyway moutain areas and most likely, small cities will not be impacted.

Need dollars to build such shelters if you want to build in cities. That's almost impossible at the movement

 

[Waz]

I was referring to major cities, at both the sides -anyway moutain areas and most likely, small cities will not be impacted.

Need dollars to build such shelters if you want to build in cities. That's almost impossible at the movement

Yes major cities would be death traps. But anyway God forbid.

 

[Optimal_Control]

I absolutely agree and you echo my reply to Raj if you can read between the lines.

India has already nullified the nuclear threat to it for all intents and purposes for now as things stand.

Hi @Oscar
Although I do acknowledge the fact that India's posture might be shifting vis-a-vis Pakistan as voiced by people like Dr. Vipin Narang or def. minister of India. I feel a clear proof of this lies in capability road map of Indian nuclear forces. For instance, India is cannisterizing her missiles at a rapid rate, in fact, when I spoke to my seniors, they clearly mentioned that all new strategic systems that are being worked on are cannisterized. Further, the renewed emphasis on SLBMs with advance features such as aerospike, compact composite motor tucked inside the 3rd stage etc, means the delivery system is going to be quite contemprorary and could be launched at moments notice.

The second piece of the posture is the surveillance and early warning and in this realm too, India has pumped in a lot of developmental efforts. Although I feel we are still no where close to the capabilities of states to pin point all the delivery systems of our opponents in real time. It will take a lot of time when we have that capability.

 

[suriya]

World nuclear forces, January 2024​

Table with 9 columns and 10 rows.

		Deployed warheadsa	Stored warheadsb		Military stockpilec	Retired warheadsd		Total inventorye
	Country	2024	2024	2023	2024	2023	2024	2023	2024
	United States	1 770	1 938	3 708	3 708	1 536	1 336	5 244	5 044
	Russia	1 710	2 670	4 489f	4 380	1 400	1 200	5 889f	5 580
	United Kingdom	120	105	225	225g	–	–	225	225g
	France	280	10	290	290	–	–	290	290
	China	24h	476	410	500	–	–	410	500
	India	–	172	164	172	–	–	164	172
	Pakistan	–	170	170	170	–	–	170	170
	North Korea	–	50	30	50i	–	–	30	50i
	Israel	–	90	90	90	–	–	90	90
	Total	3 904	5 681	9 576f	9 585	2 936	2 536	12 512f	12 121

INS Arihant is on deterrence patrol for last three years so India has some nukes in deployed condition on it.

 

[DedBot]

Here is the fact. There is NOTHING Pakistan can do to anhilate India. That is simply not possible. There are far too many of them. And likely they will be the first to strike. If they struck you first, nothing of your capabilities will survive, obviously but lets say all capability survive by some miracle, it is still not enough to kill more than a billion of Indians.

You won't annihilate anyone.

If a 'full fledged' war starts (I don't think it will happen in our life times but still)
a) Pak will test a nuclear weapon in Chagai to show that 'threshold' is approaching
b) Use tactical weapons on invading indian troops within Pak soil with no fallout on Indian soil. So technically nukes are used but not on India.

That;s the reason why Pak keeps shouting about 'tactial nukes' when India tested 3 tactical nukes in 1998 qnd Pak tested zero.

I won't be surprised if India decides to 'talk' at this stage.

As for yield, in 1998 the Thermonuclear test with partial fusion ignition and not complete, therefore not fully succesful. But even the partial success gave a yield more than 3 times the size of Hiroshima. Pak will not gamble that we hven't fixed the problem and got a yield 10 times hiroshima as basic.

Your point a & b are actually quite reasonable.

But our tactical nukes are only meant to be used in case Indian Armour invades and retains enough land within Pakistan or just near the Pakistani Border. But mostly, it is again meant as a deterrence and Pakistan will use all conventional options first.

If an all-out war does break out, we have already observed from the limited skirmish in 2019 that India despite little losses had postured quite irresponsibly and deployed missiles threatening to use them (bluff for pressure or whatever reasons) which Pakistan has to take seriously.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/india-pakistan-came-close-to-firing-missiles-at-each-other-on-february-27/story-rVsBjZ5qmxXMprktzDNqcM.html

So, we can't assume that the escalatory ladder will be climbed up gradually ( I differed here with Gen Kidwai's remark this 28th May).

Pakistan tested 0 tactical missiles in 1998 because we had ). We only completed our deficiency once India's Cold Start Doctrine (CSD) came into play.

I never gambled or questioned India's capability of Nukes. You can have yield of 100 times or more. It still doesn't invalidate our readiness and preparations.

Pakistan is still working on our second-strike/third strike capability and we have only limited second strike capability as of yet. So, we still got plenty of things to work including upgrading legacy platforms with newer ones such as inducting canisterized missiles which is relatively new and be it India or Pakistan, our old ones from early 2000s etc had separate STCs and separate LCs.

 

[Guru Dutt]

LOL at you chutiyas who think IK is doing your bidding . Your establishment and hindu terrorists of BJP/RSS FEAR IK. Otherwise the generals/Nawaz and Bhutto clans are all in the pocket of America and you being yank's bitch, they all are lovey dovy with you lot. Its IK who authorized operation Swift retort on your arse, despite Bajwa opposition. Nothing will annoy your establishment more then IK back in power. Those who know the real score will acknowledge, you uneducated trolls are nothing.

well chichhaa whats hapenning in Pakistan to Imran was had hapenned to Z A Bhutto and nawaz shrief and benezir bhutto in past

jann do chichhaa from ZA Bhutto to Nawaz shrief and from MQM tp PTI to PLMQ all are so called "gate no 4 ki paidaish" and how intially the whole pakistani establishment created this nerrartive of FIFTH GENRATION WAR and even planted people like Major Adil Raja .. watch his 1 year old podcast with Wajahad khan how he felt to do something about so called new nerrative and all that and how they/ISI created imran khan's wibes

chichhaa mocking India will not help your nation and nor is the nuclear weapons going to put food on table of common pakistani or give them clean drinking water or cheap medical facility or preoper law and order ... so better mantain the decorum of the forum

 

[DedBot]

Hi @Oscar
Although I do acknowledge the fact that India's posture might be shifting vis-a-vis Pakistan as voiced by people like Dr. Vipin Narang or def. minister of India. I feel a clear proof of this lies in capability road map of Indian nuclear forces. For instance, India is cannisterizing her missiles at a rapid rate, in fact, when I spoke to my seniors, they clearly mentioned that all new strategic systems that are being worked on are cannisterized. Further, the renewed emphasis on SLBMs with advance features such as aerospike, compact composite motor tucked inside the 3rd stage etc, means the delivery system is going to be quite contemprorary and could be launched at moments notice.

The second piece of the posture is the surveillance and early warning and in this realm too, India has pumped in a lot of developmental efforts. Although I feel we are still no where close to the capabilities of states to pin point all the delivery systems of our opponents in real time. It will take a lot of time when we have that capability.

Only the cannisterized part affects us as it reduces the deployment time and preparations needed for it.

Early warning in case of Pakistan is of little value, simply due to short (or relatively short) distances. SLBM is also more significant for the China threat, and then as a means of responding to a Pakistani strike.

However, we keep forgetting that if a scenario does arise where using Nukes is actually considered, it simply means there might already be quite a large scale destruction in war, so nukes being used will be like opting for MAD. And that means our nations as we know it cease it exist.

And thinking of that kinda makes me sad. Let's keep nukes as a deterrent and a bargaining chip.

 

[safriz]

Strategic yield warheads cost 500 million dollars and above, a piece to make. That's a problem for Pakistan.

I am surprised that "oh so Richy rich" India also cheaping out and not making those. India with as much money as Indians claim , should have had a thousand by now, if not more.

 

[Guru Dutt]

Strategic yield warheads cost 500 million dollars a piece to make.

I am surprised

and it takes almost four times that for dilivery machenism and twice that for related infra and maintainence ... now you know how race with india is bleeding pakistani economy dry ?????

 

[Falcon26]

Pakistan has nuclear warheads at the tactical, operational, and strategic levels. The notion Pakistan has only tactical nukes is preposterous and frankly hilarious revisionism. Pakistan has very high yield and potentially hydrogen bombs.

But India has more fissile materials to make more weapons. Pakistan has limited supply of fissile material and so India overtaking Pakistan’s stockpiles doesn’t really surprise anyone. Keep in mind, as result of the Indo-US nuclear deal, India can use imported fissile materials for its civilian plants and devote its domestic supply of fissile materials for its weapons programs. Pakistan doesn’t have this luxury.

 

[safriz]

and it takes almost four times that for dilivery machenism and twice that for related infra and maintainence ... now you know how race with india is bleeding pakistani economy dry ?????

Should I reply? Or leave it? You know me, I am safriz. Have been around for a while. So I may have a thing or two to say

 

[Guru Dutt]

Pakistan has nuclear warheads at the battlefield, tactical and strategic levels. The notion Pakistan has only tactical nukes is preposterous and frankly hilarious revisionism. Pakistan has very high yield and potentially hydrogen bombs.

But India has more fissile materials to make more weapons. Pakistan has limited supply of fissile material and so India overtaking Pakistan’s stockpiles doesn’t really surprise anyone. Keep in mind, as result of the Indo-US nuclear deal, India can use imported fissile materials for its civilian plants and devote its domestic supply of fissile materials for its weapons programs. Pakistan doesn’t have this luxury.

Bhai ji India is in nuclear research & development field since early 1950s and had a working nuclear bomb since late 1960s which they tested in 1974 and again in 1998 but between that time india focussed its energies on peacxeful nuclear power genration and has its very own technology for uranium enrichment and thorium based fast breeder reactor among other things like a thermo nuclear device which it had developed before getting 2+2 nuclear deal from USA in 2005 and its almost 20 years then do you really thing india was sitting idle since then

 

[War Historian]

World nuclear forces, January 2024​

Table with 9 columns and 10 rows.

		Deployed warheadsa	Stored warheadsb		Military stockpilec	Retired warheadsd		Total inventorye
	Country	2024	2024	2023	2024	2023	2024	2023	2024
	United States	1 770	1 938	3 708	3 708	1 536	1 336	5 244	5 044
	Russia	1 710	2 670	4 489f	4 380	1 400	1 200	5 889f	5 580
	United Kingdom	120	105	225	225g	–	–	225	225g
	France	280	10	290	290	–	–	290	290
	China	24h	476	410	500	–	–	410	500
	India	–	172	164	172	–	–	164	172
	Pakistan	–	170	170	170	–	–	170	170
	North Korea	–	50	30	50i	–	–	30	50i
	Israel	–	90	90	90	–	–	90	90
	Total	3 904	5 681	9 576f	9 585	2 936	2 536	12 512f	12 121

My only question is, who gives them this data, PAEC or KRL or Pakistan
government?
Answer: Non of them . Then it's just a speculation by an institute run by Western power who even don't believe about the Pakistan nuclear capability till the 28 may 1998.


They showed in this table that in last one year India produced 8 more nuclear weapons and Pakistan had not produced a single one???
What a joke. Did this institute even now the capacity of Khushab nuclear material production facility ??
They even don't know the name of those 5 different institutes in that 25 km circle. Which are the most critical part of Pakistan nuclear weapon program.....and they are talking about the number of weapons Pakistan produced in last one year.
Complete bullshit published and appreciated by ignorants.

 

[Falcon26]

Bhai ji India is in nuclear research & development field since early 1950s and had a working nuclear bomb since late 1960s which they tested in 1974 and again in 1998 but between that time india focussed its energies on peacxeful nuclear power genration and has its very own technology for uranium enrichment and thorium based fast breeder reactor among other things like a thermo nuclear device which it had developed before getting 2+2 nuclear deal from USA in 2005 and its almost 20 years then do you really thing india was sitting idle since then

What does any of this have to do with the points I made, or do you have comprehension problems?

 

[Guru Dutt]

What does any of this have to do with the points I made, or do you have comprehension problems?

sirji my humble point was

india has more fissile material , many diffrent classess of reactors and so called "tactical" & Minutrised battelfield devices and there dilivery machenism that pakistani internet /social media experts can ever imagine or is bieng propogated by pakistani establishment to there "awaam"

but we never advertise owr poweress but dose that means we dont have it and do you really think so ..???

point is Pakistan needs to stop advertissing its nuces and start working on its core issues ... i am just a peace loving person .. trust me sirji