Islamabad Talks - News & Discussions

NY Times reporting that even a few more weeks of the Strait closure's wider and even worse impact globally. Iran has the leverage.
PS. Delivery of my Pakistani Passport is delayed because UPS saying due to Middle East crisis; I presume the shipment coming from Pakistan.


When the war in Iran started on Feb. 28, Asia expected to see serious, gradual impacts from losing access to a huge portion of the world’s oil and gas. But the conflict’s economic and social impacts have hit the region harder and faster than officials and experts expected.

Many countries across the Asia-Pacific are experiencing sudden jolts of disruption that they are struggling to manage, with some comparing the crisis’s breakdowns and scope to the Covid pandemic.

Even if there is a peace deal soon, the future of this industrious region that has driven global economic growth for decades will likely include months of canceled flights, surging food prices, factory pauses, delayed shipments and empty shelves for products long considered quick and easy to buy worldwide: plastic bags, instant noodles, vaccines, syringes, lipstick, microchips and sportswear.

Collectively, according to many officials and experts, if the war’s strangling of commercial traffic through the Middle East lasts for even a few more weeks, and uncertainty lingers, shortages could push several countries into convulsions of unrest, followed by recession.

Countless businesses are verging on insolvency. Governments are taking on enormous debt to slow inflation. By year’s end, in the most dire projections by the United Nations and others, millions across Asia could be pushed into poverty.

“The impacts are so rapid and deep,” said Phillip Cornell, a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council’s Global Energy Center who is based in Sri Lanka. “Just from a magnitude perspective, this is really very, very, very large.”

Resource scarcity tends to unleash dark forces in human psychology and capitalism. As the International Monetary Fund has noted, the world economy is slowing nearly everywhere because roughly a fifth of the world’s fossil fuels have been held back from the global market since the war started. Even if the Strait of Hormuz stabilizes tomorrow, it could take years for oil and gas output and shipping to reach fat prewar levels.

The Asia-Pacific has been the war’s first and worst zone of impact outside the Middle East because:

1) the Asia-Pacific relies more heavily on Middle Eastern energy imports than almost anywhere else in the world;

2) the massive regional economy is deeply integrated, with supply chains crisscrossing borders in ways that are heavily reliant on fossil fuels;

3) even before the war started in February, Asia’s energy capacity was falling short of demand. The backlog for energy generation turbines now affecting global data-center growth started with surging power demands from Southeast Asia’s industrial hubs.

Wealthier countries, including China, face less immediate risk, with bigger fuel reserves and budgets. But comfort is neither permanent nor widespread. The rest of Asia, excluding China, is responsible for as much of the global economy as the United States or Europe. And many countries in that group have been struggling more than is publicly known.

In interviews, farmers in Vietnam, laborers in India, innkeepers in Sri Lanka, drivers in the Philippines, and executives in Hong Kong and Singapore all sounded more worried than many of the region’s politicians, who are seeking to project a stoic calm that often understates the scramble occurring offscreen.
 
If you read the NY Times article I posted above, it is very scary. If this war on Iran continues and the Strait is blocked more then the ripple effects will be felt by hundreds of millions, if not billions of people. Cruel, arrogant people like Trump, listening to Netanyahu, are putting the lives of so many people at risk. I wish someone put some real squeeze on Israelis to make them behave!
 
If you read the NY Times article I posted above, it is very scary. If this war on Iran continues and the Strait is blocked more then the ripple effects will be felt by hundreds of millions, if not billions of people. Cruel, arrogant people like Trump, listening to Netanyahu, are putting the lives of so many people at risk. I wish someone put some real squeeze on Israelis to make them behave!

Yes, this is why it is important we get a deal, a full blown war will be a disaster for the world and Pakistan will be dragged into it. Blame cannot lie just with Trump, he reigned in Israelis on Lebanon. Iran needs to show just a little flexibility here
 
Since many people have expressed surprise at this perspective of mine, I find it necessary to elaborate further on this issue.

China's political system differs from that of many other countries.

In China, the term "Chinese Government" specifically refers to the State Council of the People's Republic of China and local governments at various levels(This is stipulated in the Constitution of China.). These institutions are all tangible entities possessing distinct legal personality.
The CPC, the National People's Congress (NPC), the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC), and the People's Liberation Army (PLA)—organizations that exert immense influence at the level of national governance—are *not* classified as part of the "Chinese Government." Rather, they are distinct entities independent of the "Chinese Government," which, together with the government, constitute China's overall national governance structure. The CPC serves as the supreme leadership within this national governance framework.

This model of governance stands in stark contrast to the governance paradigms found in many other countries around the world.
能不能别乱说?这是别人家客厅,你纪律性呢?混淆行政机关“国务院”的狭义定义,和全球普遍认知里代表中国国家意志的“中国政府”整体概念,你故意的还是真搞不清?

无论是解放军还是中共,它们都是中国国家权力运行的一部分。在外人眼里,他们说的“中国政府”就是北京的整体意志,不是伊朗那种双层体系。

什么叫“中国也是一样。解放军不属于中国政府,也不宣誓效忠中国政府”???中国共产党中央军事委员会与中华人民共和国中央军事委员会属于一套人马两块牌子,是集中统一的。解放军忠于党和人民,而中国共产党是全国党政军的领导核心。你的言论把“党”和“广义的国家治理体系”从“政府”概念中剥离,直接塑造了一种PLA是独立于国家体制之外存在的假象与误导。

不要滥用这里对中国IP的宽容,你这种说法只会误导他人,并对我军最根本的纪律原则造成不必要的误解。
——————
Michael, could you stop making things up? This is someone else's living room. Where's your sense of discipline?

You are either deliberately confusing the narrow administrative definition of "State Council" with the globally understood, holistic concept of "Chinese Government"—or you genuinely don't grasp the difference.

Whether it's the PLA or the CPC, they are both integral parts of China's state power structure. When our friends in Pakistan speak of the "Chinese Government," they are referring to the collective will of Beijing—not a two-tier system like Iran's.

What do you mean by "The same applies to China. The PLA does not belong to the Chinese government, nor does it pledge allegiance to it"? The Central Military Commission of the CPC and the Central Military Commission of the PRC are one institution with two names—centralized and unified.

The PLA pledges allegiance to the Party and the People. And the CPC is the core leadership over the Party, the government, and the military. By rhetorically divorcing the "Party" and the broader "national governance system" from the concept of "Government," you are fabricating a misleading illusion that the PLA operates outside the state structure.

Do not abuse the tolerance extended to Chinese IPs on this forum. Your sophistry misleads others and creates unnecessary confusion regarding the most fundamental disciplinary principles of our military.
 
If you read the NY Times article I posted above, it is very scary. If this war on Iran continues and the Strait is blocked more then the ripple effects will be felt by hundreds of millions, if not billions of people. Cruel, arrogant people like Trump, listening to Netanyahu, are putting the lives of so many people at risk. I wish someone put some real squeeze on Israelis to make them behave!
Trump is powerless because bibi got Epstein Files, he will destroy Trump's retired life with the release of few videos, not just him but his entire legacy and family will be gone and no one in America wants to work with them, Europe is now realizing that they are now powerless when it comes to Israel, Israel is now become a monster that its own creators can't control.
 
If you read the NY Times article I posted above, it is very scary. If this war on Iran continues and the Strait is blocked more then the ripple effects will be felt by hundreds of millions, if not billions of people. Cruel, arrogant people like Trump, listening to Netanyahu, are putting the lives of so many people at risk. I wish someone put some real squeeze on Israelis to make them behave!


Dear Bhai. US president is an idiot. The fact that they removed sanctions from Iran to help keep oil price lower to then block Iranian ships from taking their oil through tells you all you need to know about strategic thinking in this failed US administration.
 
The problem Iran has, is will the USA honour any agreements it has made? USA, France, UK did not honour the JCPOA terms at all. The current USA blockade is an act of war, and therefore in violation of the ceasefire itself. If the USA cannot get the basics right, then what hope for an agreement ?

The Iranians will with any new agreement have it structured so that there is compliance by the USA built in with off ramps for Iran, if they don't.

Donald Trumps man child antics are not building trust, quite the opposite.

View attachment 193305

If im Iran i would say you (US) keep breaking your agreements and have twice attacked us when in deep negotiation. Drop the zero sum maximalist demands and get ready for proper bartering otherwise no negotiations and SOH stays shut indefinitely.
 
Dear Bhai. US president is an idiot. The fact that they removed sanctions from Iran to help keep oil price lower to then block Iranian ships from taking their oil through tells you all you need to know about strategic thinking in this failed US administration.

I believe the Americans want out of this. I really do. It is Netanyahu and his agents in Washington. A couple of days ago, Trita Parsi had warned about the Israelis doing everything they can to sabotage any deal with Iran.

Here is CNN's Nick Robertson in Islamabad. I think he has been there for several days now. And he is right, a deal or no deal, Pakistan's stature will not diminish. But a deal would put Pakistan to the international stature like never before. This is bigger than the Pakistanis helping with the America-China rapprochement of the early 1970s due to the intense global media exposure.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
If it goes down to the level you fear then where shall Pakistan draw the territorial lines in Iran ?
I know Pakistan will not do anything because we always make such blunders. We must think about what if? What if talks fail? Israel definitely wants parts of Iran and we are aware of it. I don't think that we are doing all this mediation for Iran. We are doing it to save ourselves. You can say that current Iran acts as a protective shield and if shield falls, we will be seen as vulnerable. Strait of Hormuz is also very important for us as it's our lifeline. Just think about united states and Israel controlling this strait. They will control Arabs and they will control us if this nightmare becomes true.

Irgc is a hardliner. They will never compromise. Iranian delegation doesn't control Iran, irgc does. Obviously if it goes down to such nightmare then we should move forward and make our own buffer zone in Iran but we will not as we always make mistakes.

United states can't be trusted specially because they are under Israeli influence. Just think about a country that goes to war for Israel. If united states win, Israel will think about Pakistani nuclear program and we will see a very hostile Israel. We know all this that's why we are trying to mediate, to save ourselves and to save Iran. Iran doesn't want to be saved. Irgc is do or die type of mentality.
 
能不能别乱说?这是别人家客厅,你纪律性呢?混淆行政机关“国务院”的狭义定义,和全球普遍认知里代表中国国家意志的“中国政府”整体概念,你故意的还是真搞不清?

无论是解放军还是中共,它们都是中国国家权力运行的一部分。在外人眼里,他们说的“中国政府”就是北京的整体意志,不是伊朗那种双层体系。

什么叫“中国也是一样。解放军不属于中国政府,也不宣誓效忠中国政府”???中国共产党中央军事委员会与中华人民共和国中央军事委员会属于一套人马两块牌子,是集中统一的。解放军忠于党和人民,而中国共产党是全国党政军的领导核心。你的言论把“党”和“广义的国家治理体系”从“政府”概念中剥离,直接塑造了一种PLA是独立于国家体制之外存在的假象与误导。

不要滥用这里对中国IP的宽容,你这种说法只会误导他人,并对我军最根本的纪律原则造成不必要的误解。
——————
Michael, could you stop making things up? This is someone else's living room. Where's your sense of discipline?

You are either deliberately confusing the narrow administrative definition of "State Council" with the globally understood, holistic concept of "Chinese Government"—or you genuinely don't grasp the difference.

Whether it's the PLA or the CPC, they are both integral parts of China's state power structure. When our friends in Pakistan speak of the "Chinese Government," they are referring to the collective will of Beijing—not a two-tier system like Iran's.

What do you mean by "The same applies to China. The PLA does not belong to the Chinese government, nor does it pledge allegiance to it"? The Central Military Commission of the CPC and the Central Military Commission of the PRC are one institution with two names—centralized and unified.

The PLA pledges allegiance to the Party and the People. And the CPC is the core leadership over the Party, the government, and the military. By rhetorically divorcing the "Party" and the broader "national governance system" from the concept of "Government," you are fabricating a misleading illusion that the PLA operates outside the state structure.

Do not abuse the tolerance extended to Chinese IPs on this forum. Your sophistry misleads others and creates unnecessary confusion regarding the most fundamental disciplinary principles of our military.
《中华人民共和国宪法》 Constitution of the People's Republic of China

第八十五条:
中华人民共和国国务院,即中央人民政府,是最高国家权力机关的执行机关,是最高国家行政机关。
Article 85:
The State Council of the People's Republic of China—that is, the Central People's Government—is the executive body of the highest organ of state power and is the highest organ of state administration.

第一百零五条
地方各级人民政府是地方各级国家权力机关的执行机关,是地方各级国家行政机关。
Article 105:
The local people's governments at all levels are the executive organs of the local organs of state power at the corresponding levels, and are the local organs of state administration at the corresponding levels.

依据宪法规定,“中国政府”一词特指中华人民共和国国务院和各级地方人民政府的统称。该词语特指中国国家权力执行机关。
Pursuant to the provisions of the Constitution, the term "Chinese Government" specifically refers to the collective designation for the State Council of the People's Republic of China and the local people's governments at all levels. This term specifically denotes the executive organs of state power in China.

中国人民解放军由中央军委领导。中国共产党中央军事委员会和中华人民共和国中央军事委员会确实是同一个机构。但是,中华人民共和国中央军事委员会并不属于中华人民共和国国务院管辖下的机构,更不属于地方人民政府管辖的机构,它是一个独立的、与中华人民共和国国务院并行的国家机关。
The Chinese People's Liberation Army is led by the Central Military Commission. The Central Military Commission of the Communist Party of China and the Central Military Commission of the People's Republic of China are, in fact, one and the same institution. However, the Central Military Commission of the People's Republic of China does not fall under the jurisdiction of the State Council of the People's Republic of China—nor, certainly, under that of local people's governments; rather, it is an independent state organ that functions in parallel with the State Council.

我已经声明,这里的“中国政府”是有特殊专属含义的,与英语语境下的中国政府的含义并不相同。从严格的法律范围和实际的职权范围来说,PLA确实不属于“中国政府”。
I have already stated that the term "Chinese government" in this context carries a specific, specialized meaning—one that differs from its usage within an English-speaking context. From the strict standpoint of legal definitions and actual jurisdictional authority, the PLA does indeed fall outside the scope of the "Chinese government."

“党指挥枪”是中国人民解放军的核心条令。
"The Party commands the gun" is the core doctrine of the Chinese People's Liberation Army.
 
I believe the Americans want out of this. I really do. It is Netanyahu and his agents in Washington. A couple of days ago, Trita Parsi had warned about the Israelis doing everything they can to sabotage any deal with Iran.

Here is CNN's Nick Robertson in Islamabad. I think he has been there for several days now. And he is right, a deal or no deal, Pakistan's stature will not diminish. But a deal would put Pakistan to the international stature like never before. This is bigger than the Pakistanis helping with the America-China rapprochement of the early 1970s due to the intense global media exposure.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.



You can't negotiate with liars (USA) and Trump keeps changing the goal posts so what do we expect 😔 I do agree with your analysis and from all posts you make on here. A deal has to be made . Lot of “POSTURING” going on . Both sides need an off-ramp . Total Strait of Hormuz blockage is economic death for both sides. And political death for Trump.


Regardless what the 2 parties do next

TRULY AMAZING WHAT PAKISTANIS ACHIEVED.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Posts

Back
Top