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Pakistan Navy indigenous Project to Develop Diesel Attack Submarine - Ideas, News & Discussions

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Pakistan Navy’s concept of operation against India has always been centred on employment of its forces for ‘Sea Denial’. During the 1971 war, Pakistan Navy’s (PN) focus was on targeting Indian ships with its submarines till India was able to blockade Karachi harbour, its leading commercial port and economic hub. But,PN was successful in its efforts when INS Khukri,a frigate of the Indian Navy was sunk off the coast of Diu, Gujarat by the Pakistan Navy Daphné-class submarine Hangor on 09 Dec 1971.

The three Agosta 90-B submarines of French design , Upgraded recently, form the core of Pakistan’s current submarine fleet. With 8 Yuan Class AIP Attack submarines Hangor class on order from China.
Continuing with AA/AD Strategy , on 23 July 15,Pakistan Navy approved purchase of eight S20 class submarines from China for $5 billion. Most of the analysts believe that Yuan-class submarine was designed primarily as an attack submarine with a secondary role as an anti-ship cruise missile (ASCM) platform capable of operating in shallow littorals.

PN will have the flexibility of deploying these boats around choke points off Indian coast, on defensive tasks off Makaran coast or on mid ocean targeting tasks against Indian merchant marine/ warships. In a conventional role, because of its modern sonar and the tactical flexibility provided by the AIP system it will undoubtedly be an effective ASCM platform against enemy’s ships. However, a limitation in the form of missile load may restrict its effectiveness as an ideal ASCM platform. In the
absence of any vertical launch system (VLS), it is obvious that the existing six torpedo tubes will be used to load a mix of missiles YJ-18 and torpedoes.

1703170682602.png

The modern non-nuclear, conventional diesel-electric submarine (SSK) with air independent propulsion (AIP) system is a complex, multi-role and extremely powerful weapon system. The submarine is able to deploy a wide range of weapons such as:torpedoes, anti-ship missiles, land attack missiles, mines, unmanned underwater vehicles,self defence systems and even provide accommodation and support for a team of Special Forces.

Consequently, the vessel can conduct various missions from anti submarine, anti-surface vessels warfare through land strikes with cruise missiles to intelligence,surveillance and reconnaissance operations.

Therefore, modern SSKs can play the role of a semi strategic weapon which will have a decisive effect on future air-sea battlefields.Naval operations have changed significantly compared to the Cold War period. Operations at sea have moved from the ‘‘blue water’’ open ocean to the ‘‘brown water’’ shallow, costal environment.

As a result, the importance of smaller and quieter conventional submarines has significantly increased.

The VLS Capable AIP equipped SSK Localised Assembly Program* will play an important role in the Anti-Access / Area Denial operational concept of countries such as Pakistan that aim to block access to combat zones and increase their much fancied adversaries’ naval vessels' vulnerability to lethal attacks. in Arabian Ocean. And flexibility to arm weapons of choice with systems integrated as per needs & budget available - it may be termed as the JF-17 Thunder of Pakistan Navy.

The ToT signed for Type -039 Boats from China recently by Pakistan , growing exchange with STM, Availability of Chinese Sterling AIP , Trials of Type -039c Stealth Sub and previous exposure from Agosta -90B Modernisation and putting SLCM puts Pak Navy in a position to pursue the Program with Jinnah Class Frigates in 2026 - 2030 onward.

PNS Hamza, one of the three Agosta 90-B submarines was commissioned and assembled at the Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works(KSEW) in 2008.

1703125835677.png


A future PN Attack Sumarine AIP Attack submarine Fleet of over 18+3+4* in numbers , with Shallow water assets , can wait at Ocean bed with Long endurance for its target to come, it is not an ocean race.

The AIP system makes it able to operate over 30 days in stealth modes. New submarines have similar endurance as nuclear submarine, operating for 70 days or more. A VLS is a modern type of missile-firing system used aboard submarines and surface vessels of several navies around the world. When installed on an attack submarine, a VLS allows a greater number and variety of weapons to be deployed in comparison to using only torpedo tubes. Developing the horizontal launching tube requires more sophisticated technology than the VLS development.

As for Indian Navy - When the P75I Project began - Two major Conditions were inked :
1- Contender Sub will have AIP (air independent power).
2- The second is that they would prefer a VLS to launch Brahmos anti-ship missiles.

Taken together, the P75I will have to be much larger than previous Indian navy conventional submarines.

1703169441060.png

France’s Naval Group DCN then offered Indian Navy a diesel-electric version of their Barracuda nuclear submarine. . The French AIP system uses fuel-cells with a diesel reformer to eliminate the need for onboard hydrogen storage. It has been shore tested for years. Barracuda simply had its size to its advantage. The hull diameter of around 8.5 meters is the largest of the competitors. This should make it comparatively less challenging to fit a VLS, even with the massive Brahmos missile.


1703125470962.png

Even with modern technology - Detecting, tracking and locating SSKs is a challenging task, even for the most advanced Navies.

For instance, the US Navy has constantly struggled to effectively detect diesel-electric submarines. In 2005, the Gotland Swedish AIP-equipped submarinewas leased with a crew to the US Navy.

During a war gaming exercise with the USSRonald Reagan Carrier Strike Group on December 2005, the Swedish submarine penetrated the defence of a carrier battle group and managed to “sink” the aircraft carrier,while remaining undetected. Similarly, US vessels have often experienced such defeats atthe hands of the South Korean type 209 and 214 SSKs during the biannual Rim.





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Mk-45-VLS-002.jpg


The 12-cell Mk-45 VLS is a launching system in use on US Navy SSN’s and SSGN’s.
Used for:
UGM-84 Harpoon
UGM-109 Tomahawk




1703170719164.png



1703171175586.png

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Last edited:
Pakistan Navy’s concept of operation against India has always been centred on employment of its forces for ‘Sea Denial’. During the 1971 war, Pakistan Navy’s (PN) focus was on targeting Indian ships with its submarines till India was able to blockade Karachi harbour, its leading commercial port and economic hub. But,PN was successful in its efforts when INS Khukri,a frigate of the Indian Navy was sunk off the coast of Diu, Gujarat by the Pakistan Navy Daphné-class submarine Hangor on 09 Dec 1971.

The three Agosta 90-B submarines of French design , Upgraded recently, form the core of Pakistan’s current submarine fleet. With 8 Yuan Class AIP Attack submarines Hangor class on order from China.
Continuing with AA/AD Strategy , on 23 July 15,Pakistan Navy approved purchase of eight S20 class submarines from China for $5 billion. Most of the analysts believe that Yuan-class submarine was designed primarily as an attack submarine with a secondary role as an anti-ship cruise missile (ASCM) platform capable of operating in shallow littorals.

PN will have the flexibility of deploying these boats around choke points off Indian coast, on defensive tasks off Makaran coast or on mid ocean targeting tasks against Indian merchant marine/ warships. In a conventional role, because of its modern sonar and the tactical flexibility provided by the AIP system it will undoubtedly be an effective ASCM platform against enemy’s ships. However, a limitation in the form of missile load may restrict its effectiveness as an ideal ASCM platform. In the
absence of any vertical launch system (VLS), it is obvious that the existing six torpedo tubes will be used to load a mix of missiles YJ-18 and torpedoes.

View attachment 1739

The modern non-nuclear, conventional diesel-electric submarine (SSK) with air independent propulsion (AIP) system is a complex, multi-role and extremely powerful weapon system. The submarine is able to deploy a wide range of weapons such as:torpedoes, anti-ship missiles, land attack missiles, mines, unmanned underwater vehicles,self defence systems and even provide accommodation and support for a team of Special Forces.

Consequently, the vessel can conduct various missions from anti submarine, anti-surface vessels warfare through land strikes with cruise missiles to intelligence,surveillance and reconnaissance operations.

Therefore, modern SSKs can play the role of a semi strategic weapon which will have a decisive effect on future air-sea battlefields.Naval operations have changed significantly compared to the Cold War period. Operations at sea have moved from the ‘‘blue water’’ open ocean to the ‘‘brown water’’ shallow, costal environment.

As a result, the importance of smaller and quieter conventional submarines has significantly increased.

The VLS Capable AIP equipped SSK Localised Assembly Program* will play an important role in the Anti-Access / Area Denial operational concept of countries such as Pakistan that aim to block access to combat zones and increase their much fancied adversaries’ naval vessels' vulnerability to lethal attacks. in Arabian Ocean. And flexibility to arm weapons of choice with systems integrated as per needs & budget available - it may be termed as the JF-17 Thunder of Pakistan Navy.

The ToT signed for Type -039 Boats from China recently by Pakistan , growing exchange with STM, Availability of Chinese Sterling AIP , Trials of Type -039c Stealth Sub and previous exposure from Agosta -90B Modernisation and putting SLCM puts Pak Navy in a position to pursue the Program with Jinnah Class Frigates in 2026 - 2030 onward.

PNS Hamza, one of the three Agosta 90-B submarines was commissioned and assembled at the Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works(KSEW) in 2008.

View attachment 1570


A future PN Attack Sumarine AIP Attack submarine Fleet of over 18+3+4* in numbers , with Shallow water assets , can wait at Ocean bed with Long endurance for its target to come, it is not an ocean race.

The AIP system makes it able to operate over 30 days in stealth modes. New submarines have similar endurance as nuclear submarine, operating for 70 days or more. A VLS is a modern type of missile-firing system used aboard submarines and surface vessels of several navies around the world. When installed on an attack submarine, a VLS allows a greater number and variety of weapons to be deployed in comparison to using only torpedo tubes. Developing the horizontal launching tube requires more sophisticated technology than the VLS development.

As for Indian Navy - When the P75I Project began - Two major Conditions were inked :
1- Contender Sub will have AIP (air independent power).
2- The second is that they would prefer a VLS to launch Brahmos anti-ship missiles.

Taken together, the P75I will have to be much larger than previous Indian navy conventional submarines.

View attachment 1705

France’s Naval Group DCN then offered Indian Navy a diesel-electric version of their Barracuda nuclear submarine. . The French AIP system uses fuel-cells with a diesel reformer to eliminate the need for onboard hydrogen storage. It has been shore tested for years. Barracuda simply had its size to its advantage. The hull diameter of around 8.5 meters is the largest of the competitors. This should make it comparatively less challenging to fit a VLS, even with the massive Brahmos missile.


View attachment 1569

Even with modern technology - Detecting, tracking and locating SSKs is a challenging task, even for the most advanced Navies.

For instance, the US Navy has constantly struggled to effectively detect diesel-electric submarines. In 2005, the Gotland Swedish AIP-equipped submarinewas leased with a crew to the US Navy.

During a war gaming exercise with the USSRonald Reagan Carrier Strike Group on December 2005, the Swedish submarine penetrated the defence of a carrier battle group and managed to “sink” the aircraft carrier,while remaining undetected. Similarly, US vessels have often experienced such defeats atthe hands of the South Korean type 209 and 214 SSKs during the biannual Rim.





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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

A completely indigenous project even with great economy would be really difficult but a joint venture with Turkey is required.
 
Any original PN submarine program will be based on the SWATS project. So, I wouldn't expect some large submarine with VLS. Rather, I'd expect a straightforward, 1000-ton design with AIP and focused AShW and ASW capabilities. Rather than bells and whistles, the PN should focus on fuel cell AIP tech, lithium-ion batteries, and non-magnetic steel.

That's why the Italian Fincantieri S800 would be really interesting for the PN SWATS program, the larger S1000 could become the basis of the next PN sub project.
 
Any original PN submarine program will be based on the SWATS project. So, I wouldn't expect some large submarine with VLS. Rather, I'd expect a straightforward, 1000-ton design with AIP and focused AShW and ASW capabilities. Rather than bells and whistles, the PN should focus on fuel cell AIP tech, lithium-ion batteries, and non-magnetic steel.

That's why the Italian Fincantieri S800 would be really interesting for the PN SWATS program, the larger S1000 could become the basis of the next PN sub project.
Interesting why they even want an indigenous program other than midget systems. Manufacturing at KSEW helps for other purposes such as refurbishing and maintenance along with a different project that comes and goes - and that project is for a “persistent” 2nd strike capability regardless of what occurs on land
 
Is there any official announcement/any hint from PN regarding indigenous submarine project?
 
Interesting why they even want an indigenous program other than midget systems. Manufacturing at KSEW helps for other purposes such as refurbishing and maintenance along with a different project that comes and goes - and that project is for a “persistent” 2nd strike capability regardless of what occurs on land
So, in this case, I wouldn't call an 'original' design an 'indigenous' design. The PN wants a partner to help it design something that fits its specific needs (ala Jinnah-class frigate). Something like the Fincantieri S800 is a good fit because it's based on the S1000; so, both projects can be done relatively smoothly. Turkiye has a similar offer with the STM500 and TS1700.

Whoever wins the PN SWATS program (likely either Turkiye or Italy) will be tasked with helping the PN design a next-gen submarine. This submarine will eventually replace the Agosta 90Bs (2040s) and expand the submarine fleet even further.

The goal for building a massive submarine fleet is A2/AD, both in our littoral waters and across our SLOCs. These are busy waters, so the submarine fleet will get a lot of acoustic masking, making our ships a difficult threat to neutralize.

The PN wants to have silent assets parked in its littoral waters to dissuade Indian amphibious ops; a 1,000 to 1,200-ton design with fuel-cell AIP is perfect for the role. This will free the bigger, Stirling AIP-equipped Hangor SSPs to patrol our SLOCs. Meanwhile, the SWATS will be pegged for strategic roles like supporting SOF/frogmen ops.

So, by 2040 or so, the PN's sub-surface fleet composition can look like this:
  • 8 Hangor SSPs (2,800 tons, Stirling AIP)
  • 4 SWATS (700 tons, fuel cell AIP)
  • 4+ Next-Gen SSPs (1,000-1,200 tons, fuel cell AIP)
From 2040, the PN will keep building upon the Next-Gen SSP. Things like localizing the key inputs (especially steel, sensors, electronics, etc) are big goals.
 
So, in this case, I wouldn't call an 'original' design an 'indigenous' design. The PN wants a partner to help it design something that fits its specific needs (ala Jinnah-class frigate). Something like the Fincantieri S800 is a good fit because it's based on the S1000; so, both projects can be done relatively smoothly. Turkiye has a similar offer with the STM500 and TS1700.

Whoever wins the PN SWATS program (likely either Turkiye or Italy) will be tasked with helping the PN design a next-gen submarine. This submarine will eventually replace the Agosta 90Bs (2040s) and expand the submarine fleet even further.

The goal for building a massive submarine fleet is A2/AD, both in our littoral waters and across our SLOCs. These are busy waters, so the submarine fleet will get a lot of acoustic masking, making our ships a difficult threat to neutralize.

The PN wants to have silent assets parked in its littoral waters to dissuade Indian amphibious ops; a 1,000 to 1,200-ton design with fuel-cell AIP is perfect for the role. This will free the bigger, Stirling AIP-equipped Hangor SSPs to patrol our SLOCs. Meanwhile, the SWATS will be pegged for strategic roles like supporting SOF/frogmen ops.

So, by 2040 or so, the PN's sub-surface fleet composition can look like this:
  • 8 Hangor SSPs (2,800 tons, Stirling AIP)
  • 4 SWATS (700 tons, fuel cell AIP)
  • 4+ Next-Gen SSPs (1,000-1,200 tons, fuel cell AIP)
From 2040, the PN will keep building upon the Next-Gen SSP. Things like localizing the key inputs (especially steel, sensors, electronics, etc) are big goals.
There is still a requirement for a platform to carry ballistic or quasi ballistic systems that keeps coming on and off on mentions. Maybe they shelved it?
 
There is still a requirement for a platform to carry ballistic or quasi ballistic systems that keeps coming on and off on mentions. Maybe they shelved it?
Previous NHQ/CNS voiced it was still a need, I think it's still a goal. This may be something they can pursue in collaboration with Turkiye via the MILDEN. The MILDEN will be a bigger platform (possibly with VLS et.al). However, I'm not sure if the PN is still pining for a nuclear-powered sub; a large SSP with fuel-cell AIP can be more than good enough (e.g., MILDEN).
 
Any original PN submarine program will be based on the SWATS project. So, I wouldn't expect some large submarine with VLS. Rather, I'd expect a straightforward, 1000-ton design with AIP and focused AShW and ASW capabilities. Rather than bells and whistles, the PN should focus on fuel cell AIP tech, lithium-ion batteries, and non-magnetic steel.

That's why the Italian Fincantieri S800 would be really interesting for the PN SWATS program, the larger S1000 could become the basis of the next PN sub project.

Italian Fincantieri S800 or 1000 is based on very matured & developed U212/4 program & have an edge on Turkish project (STM 500) which still lacks operational experience & currently only a concept. Secondly, Italy has well established industrial setup which will further complement if PN goes for this type.
 
So, in this case, I wouldn't call an 'original' design an 'indigenous' design. The PN wants a partner to help it design something that fits its specific needs (ala Jinnah-class frigate). Something like the Fincantieri S800 is a good fit because it's based on the S1000; so, both projects can be done relatively smoothly. Turkiye has a similar offer with the STM500 and TS1700.

Whoever wins the PN SWATS program (likely either Turkiye or Italy) will be tasked with helping the PN design a next-gen submarine. This submarine will eventually replace the Agosta 90Bs (2040s) and expand the submarine fleet even further.

The goal for building a massive submarine fleet is A2/AD, both in our littoral waters and across our SLOCs. These are busy waters, so the submarine fleet will get a lot of acoustic masking, making our ships a difficult threat to neutralize.

The PN wants to have silent assets parked in its littoral waters to dissuade Indian amphibious ops; a 1,000 to 1,200-ton design with fuel-cell AIP is perfect for the role. This will free the bigger, Stirling AIP-equipped Hangor SSPs to patrol our SLOCs. Meanwhile, the SWATS will be pegged for strategic roles like supporting SOF/frogmen ops.

So, by 2040 or so, the PN's sub-surface fleet composition can look like this:
  • 8 Hangor SSPs (2,800 tons, Stirling AIP)
  • 4 SWATS (700 tons, fuel cell AIP)
  • 4+ Next-Gen SSPs (1,000-1,200 tons, fuel cell AIP)
From 2040, the PN will keep building upon the Next-Gen SSP. Things like localizing the key inputs (especially steel, sensors, electronics, etc) are big goals.

It appears that 1200-ton design SSPs would be a great fit in the scenarios given, and dividing them into two types classes (700t & 1200t) would be a waste of resources and limiting their role.

2040 is also too far off because Hangor will be inducted by the end of this year, and since PN is already in negotiations with Turkish STM and Italian Fincantieri for the this class, it appears that a deal will be struck soon. Therefore, if a deal is struck in the coming years, it is likely that induction will begin in 2035, if not sooner.

So the fleet would be compromise on below by 2035...
  • 8 Hangor SSPs (2,800 tons, Stirling AIP)
  • 8-10 Next-Gen SSPs + SWATS (1,000-1,200 tons, fuel cell AIP)
  • 3 Augusta 90Bs (MESMA AIP)
 
Previous NHQ/CNS voiced it was still a need, I think it's still a goal. This may be something they can pursue in collaboration with Turkiye via the MILDEN. The MILDEN will be a bigger platform (possibly with VLS et.al). However, I'm not sure if the PN is still pining for a nuclear-powered sub; a large SSP with fuel-cell AIP can be more than good enough (e.g., MILDEN).

PN should focus on future Chinese SSKs based on the 039C (4k tons) class with VLS, similar to South Korean SSKs, rather pursuing Turkish type. There are unsubstantiated rumours that the Chinese are developing mini reactor of this type

It would be ideal if PN went that approach & 6-8 such AIP-SSKs (N) with VLS would extensively enhance PN capabilities & refrain from having to make significant investments in SSNs to counter IN's SSN threat.

Further, Hangor's fleet will complement this type and supported by a well-established Chinese industrial setup and mature design.
 
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It appears that 1200-ton design SSPs would be a great fit in the scenarios given, and dividing them into two types classes (700t & 1200t) would be a waste of resources and limiting their role.

2040 is also too far off because Hangor will be inducted by the end of this year, and since PN is already in negotiations with Turkish STM and Italian Fincantieri for the this class, it appears that a deal will be struck soon. Therefore, if a deal is struck in the coming years, it is likely that induction will begin in 2035, if not sooner.

So the fleet would be compromise on below by 2035...
  • 8 Hangor SSPs (2,800 tons, Stirling AIP)
  • 8-10 Next-Gen SSPs + SWATS (1,000-1,200 tons, fuel cell AIP)
  • 3 Augusta 90Bs (MESMA AIP)
Yep, choosing the Fincantieri S1000 and gradually localizing it as much as possible could be the most viable step.
 
The time to purchase was in 2013-2014 , and we did bought 8 Submarines from China I don't see any local program returning any returns for next 20-25 years

Might as well dream of Millenium Falcon

It seems the Chinese Submarines are bet which is realistic option , and we are getting these soon delivered

It would be advantageous to attain the Submarines in 2024 (the eight we ordered)

We are better off to aim for Second Hand Chinese Submarines to fill the Gap beyond the Chinese 8 we are getting.

  • Attain 4 older models from China on Lease
  • The 12 Chinese Submarine fleet plus Agosta is more then enough
 
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