Rafale M Deal: India and France to Fast-Track Negotiations After Elections

[Yasser76]

I suggest both you and your more informed posters look at study this link

Do you have any idea

How hard it might be for a Pakistan frigate or from land based fighters to track follow avd engage a carrier battle group of this magnitude

The carrier group is 300/500km out at sea constantly moving at 30 knotts how do you intend to track chase and engage before running out of fuel

Your airforce has no twin engined fighters the Indian navy will drag you out to sea and engage your small force and destroy it

Your hoping to pick off a carrier with ten warships protecting from 250 miles away then hoping the rafales don't pick you off first

Did you see the fire power in Vikrant carrier battle group

They can do a lot of damage combined buddy

Firstly, I am not your "buddy".

Secondly you do not seem to get the concept of Area Denial that PN has adopted. Ships and carriers are for sea control.

It would be foolhardy for PN to try and match IN ship for ship. Long range missiles and extensive AIP Sub fleet will mean there is a very good chance of sinking India's ships should they get close.

 

[DDG-80]

Long range missiles and extensive AIP Sub fleet will mean there is a very good chance of sinking India's ships should they get close.

Penetrating India's Carrier Battle Group would be extremely challenging due to its robust defense capabilities. The CBG is equipped with advanced German Atlas Electronik active towed array sonar systems mounted on Indian Navy frigates such as the Talwar and Shivalik classes. These sonars are capable of detecting and tracking submarines equipped with AIP technology at distances exceeding 60 kilometers, whether they are operating in deep or shallow waters of the Arabian Sea.

Supporting these frigates are other sophisticated ASW assets like the P8i maritime patrol aircraft, MH60R Seahawk helicopters, Ka28 (upgraded with IAI skimmers), MQ9B SeaGuardian drones, and underwater drones launched from survey ships like INS Sandhayak. This comprehensive ASW arsenal ensures that India's CBG is well-protected against submarine threats, making any attempt to breach its defenses highly challenging.

Talwar class frigate with Atlas Elektronik ACTAS/VDS.

 

[Yasser76]

Penetrating India's Carrier Battle Group would be extremely challenging due to its robust defense capabilities. The CBG is equipped with advanced German Atlas Electronik active towed array sonar systems mounted on Indian Navy frigates such as the Talwar and Shivalik classes. These sonars are capable of detecting and tracking submarines equipped with AIP technology at distances exceeding 60 kilometers, whether they are operating in deep or shallow waters of the Arabian Sea.

Supporting these frigates are other sophisticated ASW assets like the P8i maritime patrol aircraft, MH60R Seahawk helicopters, Ka28 (upgraded with IAI skimmers), MQ9B SeaGuardian drones, and underwater drones launched from survey ships like INS Sandhayak. This comprehensive ASW arsenal ensures that India's CBG is well-protected against submarine threats, making any attempt to breach its defenses highly challenging.

Talwar class frigate with Atlas Elektronik ACTAS/VDS.
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Nope, AIP subs have been known to get through US carrier defences on exercise. Dedicating so much support will just open up these assets to air threats from PAF. Esentially what you have just described is dedicating a massive amount of assets to protect a carrier battle group that will not even be able to enter 1,000km near pak coast.

No battle group can completely protect itself from sub threat, naval warfare has taught us all that for a long time now, and the more supporting assets in one area you place, the bigger targets you give to roaming fighters.

Also good like trying to stop anti carrier ballistic missiles. Even the US Navy claims these are a major threat

 

[DDG-80]

Nope, AIP subs have been known to get through US carrier defences on exercise.

The Gotland did well in exercises, but remember, exercises are controlled and don’t fully mimic real combat. Also, back then, the US Navy didn’t have the advanced ASW assets they have now, like the P-8 Poseidon, MH-60R Seahawks, and MQ-9B SeaGuardian with cutting-edge sonobouys and dipping sonars.

 

[DDG-80]

Esentially what you have just described is dedicating a massive amount of assets to protect a carrier battle group that will not even be able to enter 1,000km near pak coast.

No battle group can completely protect itself from sub threat, naval warfare has taught us all that for a long time now, and the more supporting assets in one area you place, the bigger targets you give to roaming fighters.

Modern naval tactics involve dispersed operations and integrated air defense systems that mitigate risks from aerial threats. Assets are deployed based on operational needs and are supported by comprehensive air defense measures.

 

[onlinpunit]

Enemy fighters will need to be intercepted before they have a chance to fire of Anti-ship missiles. CM-400 has a 300km-400km operational range. YJ-21 has a 1,500km operational range.

U mean to say carrier aircrafts will conductor CAP of 1500 km radius?

 

[Yasser76]

The Gotland did well in exercises, but remember, exercises are controlled and don’t fully mimic real combat. Also, back then, the US Navy didn’t have the advanced ASW assets they have now, like the P-8 Poseidon, MH-60R Seahawks, and MQ-9B SeaGuardian with cutting-edge sonobouys and dipping sonars.

That applies both ways

 

[Yasser76]

U mean to say carrier aircrafts will conductor CAP of 1500 km radius?

Of course not. It just shows the falllacy of trying to get a big carrier near the coast of a country with one of the largest missile and submairne fleets in Asia

 

[harpy1]

Of course not. It just shows the falllacy of trying to get a big carrier near the coast of a country with one of the largest missile and submairne fleets in Asia

That's another ridiculous comment

Largest missiles fleet in the world
What Pakistan ,.. what missle fleet

Your sub fleet is four agostas one generation older than scorpene

Are you serious poster

Why do you make these hilarious comments

Largest submarines fleet my arse lol

 

[harpy1]

Your airforce can't stand up to the Indian air force

Which planes are you deflecting your coastline
What will have left to protect your airspace ...
Your already outnumbered

Oh please jf17 against rafale M

God it's going to be a massacre

 

[harpy1]

Nope, AIP subs have been known to get through US carrier defences on exercise. Dedicating so much support will just open up these assets to air threats from PAF. Esentially what you have just described is dedicating a massive amount of assets to protect a carrier battle group that will not even be able to enter 1,000km near pak coast.

No battle group can completely protect itself from sub threat, naval warfare has taught us all that for a long time now, and the more supporting assets in one area you place, the bigger targets you give to roaming fighters.

Also good like trying to stop anti carrier ballistic missiles. Even the US Navy claims these are a major threat

If all it took was a cost effective aip submarine then why would the worlds biggest and best be inducting new carriers

As I speak the following countries have inducted new carriers ranging in weight from. 30k tonnes Japan to USA 90k tonnes in the last five years alone

Carriers will remain the most flexible and lethal navy platform a nation can deploy
For this reason.bigger nations will.continue to invest in all.sorts of carriers

 

[Yasser76]

If all it took was a cost effective aip submarine then why would the worlds biggest and best be inducting new carriers

As I speak the following countries have inducted new carriers ranging in weight from. 30k tonnes Japan to USA 90k tonnes in the last five years alone

Carriers will remain the most flexible and lethal navy platform a nation can deploy
For this reason.bigger nations will.continue to invest in all.sorts of carriers

Carriers are a power projection tool and useful no doubt. Many more countries are making efforts on aip subs, much more cost effective and if your aim is sea denial (which is the aim for Pakistan), they are the perfect weapon. The resources needed to hunt just a single sub are massive

 

[Yasser76]

Your airforce can't stand up to the Indian air force

Which planes are you deflecting your coastline
What will have left to protect your airspace ...
Your already outnumbered

Oh please jf17 against rafale M

God it's going to be a massacre

Yes, think you lot had similar arrogance in 2019

 

[harpy1]

Yes, think you lot had similar arrogance in 2019

That was minor skirmish
Your now talking about attacking an Indian Vikrant carrier battle group with your subs and frigates and thunders armed with cruise missiles

Guess what they are up against
Not only the carrier battle groups missiles which combined in in hundreds numbers for Sam's but also over 100 brahmos cruise missiles

The carriers which on their own will field over 50 fighters both rafale and mig29ks will.have support of su30mki as well...
Pak may face over 100 planes even 150 if you include maritime planes survallisnce planes drones ai force combat planes
su30mki from mainland India
P8 Poseidon planes
Romeo helicopters
Sea guardian drones
Predator drones

It's not just one carrier it's the entire Indian military
Real time satellites will pick up your planes and ships immediately

The battle group which is moving constantly will take evasive moves to drag your assets away from mainland

You will.defo be outgunned

 

[harpy1]

Carriers are a power projection tool and useful no doubt. Many more countries are making efforts on aip subs, much more cost effective and if your aim is sea denial (which is the aim for Pakistan), they are the perfect weapon. The resources needed to hunt just a single sub are massive

Sea denial.means your enemy disrupts and blockades your trade in the Persian gulf and Malacca straights serious impact on your economy....

Sea denile is staying in shore to avoid exposing your assets