PTI News, Updates and Discussion

[mythbuster]

Post World War Europe, South Korea and even India. I know you’ll try to nitpick India but let’s be real, Pakistan and India started from the same place. Same independence, same colonial baggage but the difference is India stuck with democracy, built institutions, and now its economy is booming.

On the other hand we’re stuck in a loop, same elite families, same military interference, same excuses. Always on the edge of bankruptcy, always at nazuk mor. It’s not the people or illiteracy holding us back it’s the system that refuses to change.

Bro , you don't understand history or economy ...you need begginers courses on both.

 

[mythbuster]

Yes - but that is tangential to the idea that IK came just on popularity. We are ignoring the elephant in the room of combination of complete “kingdomship” of PML(N) in Punjab especially the Rural areas (through political appointees) combined with general ignorance of the population there.

At the end the military manipulated a lot even through the musical chairs of the 90s with N league and PPP - because there is a mindset shift that Zai ul haq bought in of “we are the stewards”(read overlords) in various guises of “doublespeak” that lives in the training and traditions of mess halls and drawing rooms. You cannot just remove that overnight and IK chose to test that at his peril.

You don’t need idealism to change Pakistan because that requires empowerment and enfranchisement of the educated middle class and them to be a larger number.
You need the machiavellian ruthlessness of Bhutto including utter lying populism. IK is good at neither.

From a larva you are morphing into a fascist butterfly..... like that.

 

[M. Sarmad]

That is merely a claim, that can turn into fact only and only if there is actual action to make it a reality.

Sirf beth kar bayan dar bayaan daaghney sey kabhi kuch nahi ho gaa.

It’s not a claim but a fact.....

Even with the full weight of the state machinery turned against PTI, its symbol snatched, its leaders barred, and its candidates hounded, the people still voted for whoever carried IK’s name in their constituency. And despite all that (and despite several PTI candidates' 50,000 vote leads magically flipping into defeats on live television), PTI still emerged as the largest political force, with the highest number of popular votes and seats....

Though agreed with the latter part of your post..... Words alone are never enough

 

[Respect4Respect]

The real issue is not identifying the issue as you put it. We all have known what the issues are, where they come from, and what to do about them, for a very long time already.

The real issue then becomes getting from here to there. We may know where to go, but if we never start walking, the destination will remain far, far away in the future, always.

Sab ko pata hey, lekin koi kuch karta hee nahi. Sab apnay apnay haal mein mast hein, koi ayyashi sey, koi majboori sey.

I agree we all know the direction we need to take but we’re simply not moving that way. IMO the reason is that our own institutions keep stepping outside their defined roles. GHQ has no business interfering in the judiciary or the parliament yet they do it time and again. No civilian government has been allowed to complete its term with full authority.

Flip the roles for a second, imagine the chairman of WAPDA suddenly deciding to lead the army and declare war on India. Would that be acceptable? i don't think so, he’d be thrown out for overstepping, so why is it normal when generals do the same with politics?

And look at the numbers in the last 25 years, Pakistan has had 14 prime ministers and only 5 army chiefs...India in the same period had 5 prime ministers and 9 army chiefs. That's the difference their system allows civilian leadership to function and ours keeps getting hijacked.

 

[KingQamaR]

Mere Bhai: There was never any intention for 'revolutions'. At most, cleaner govt but then the political appointments under the Imran admin cleared betrayed sticking with the 'old order' and even when it was obvious the choices were bad, the mighty ego couldn't make a course correction. On top of all that, there was the Imran plan to hold onto power for the next 10 years by colluding with some top Generals but that backfired.

All these are, by now, clear to anyone and yet there are many, especially the expats, who indulge in the fantasies of a deranged Messiah Khan. He is in the prison not for some grandiose plans but because of utter lack of political intelligence and for trying to divide the Pakistani military. Even Trump, another megalomaniac, knows how to work 'within the system'.

Expatriate people have no idea, Sooner or later PTI will just be the new face of PMNL/ PPP. And PTI current policies is all about gaslighting to the extreme shouting from the sidelines. PTI leadership, this lazy entitled attitude is going to bite them on the arse so hard if they get elected. They’ll soon find out governing is not easy. I do supported imran Khan it soon came obvious during his tenure the man had no idea to deal with Afghanistan psychopaths!

 

[KingQamaR]

If the output of democracy is corruption of the 90s and PTI's dilapidated and unkept KPK, what good is it?

Until Pakistan's literacy rate is above 90% then their judgement is not to be trusted.

Best way to govern Pakistan. Is accountability, none exist there.

 

[HAIDER]

Post World War Europe, South Korea and even India. I know you’ll try to nitpick India but let’s be real, Pakistan and India started from the same place. Same independence, same colonial baggage but the difference is India stuck with democracy, built institutions, and now its economy is booming.

On the other hand we’re stuck in a loop, same elite families, same military interference, same excuses. Always on the edge of bankruptcy, always at nazuk mor. It’s not the people or illiteracy holding us back it’s the system that refuses to change.

Yes, Europe is living example. But unfortunately, military always tell us " all political leaders are corrupt". But they install the same " real corrupts" (Nawaz-Zardari and feudal)to prolong there rules and ambitions.

 

[samsite84]

From an outsides POV, its a disappointing situation for IK. Which country jails its heroes - can't imagine anything like this happening to Sachin or Kapil. Cricket is loved so much and yet the biggest icon has been handled disgracefully esp. because both the coming and his going was controlled by Pakistani establishment.

IK was more hostile to India and I wasn't particularly thrilled by his attitude towards terrorists (the good taliban, the bad taliban) and he might have done more harm than good has he stayed in power. Still, it felt more Pakistanis were part of democratic process.

A nation should respect its heros. Feels like Pakistan only respect jarnails - which btw usurp power overtly or covertly and self-appoint themselves as President, Field Marshall etc.

 

[VCheng]

It’s not a claim but a fact.....

I have no desire to challenge what you regard as fact, since I respect your right to your own views.

Given the rest of your post, all I can observe is that facts can be tested for robustness with a simple IF TRUE > OBSERVABLE CONSEQUENCES > TANGIBLE RESULTS test.

I will leave it to you and others here to conduct such an exercise for themselves, if they so wish.

 

[VCheng]

I agree we all know the direction we need to take but we’re simply not moving that way. IMO the reason is that our own institutions keep stepping outside their defined roles. GHQ has no business interfering in the judiciary or the parliament yet they do it time and again. No civilian government has been allowed to complete its term with full authority.

The reason of institutions not respecting their prescribed limits is well-known, to be sure. But knowing that does not help the genie get back into the bottle. That is the hold up. As I said, getting to there from here will not happen unless there are actual actions to back up all the noble verbiage.

Thus far, there are none.

 

[RescueRanger]

Chest Thumping with your major adversary in jail on trumped up charges (500+ FIRs) is not bravery but fear of the reality. Release him and then see what happens.

Correct sir. Let the proper path run its course shutting down x accounts and silencing opinion is not the way. It only ferments distrust and disillusion, not what is needed right now in Pakistan.

 

[VCheng]

Chest Thumping with your major adversary in jail on trumped up charges (500+ FIRs) is not bravery but fear of the reality. Release him and then see what happens.

If IK really did have the people's support as is ardently claimed here endlessly, then they would not be able to keep him in incarcerated.

Where are the widespread protests that simply cannot be ignored? The true will of the people can never be stopped.

 

[RescueRanger]

Where are the widespread protests

S.144 is imposed in Punjab and Sindh sir. You know what S.144 is right?

 

[M. Sarmad]

If IK really did have the people's support as is ardently claimed here endlessly, then they would not be able to keep him in incarcerated.

Where are the widespread protests that simply cannot be ignored? The true will of the people can never be stopped.

So, what you’re essentially saying is that if ordinary, unarmed citizens fail to overpower a million-strong, heavily armed army (one that fires live rounds at peaceful protesters) in order to free someone from illegal detention, then that somehow proves the person isn’t popular, has no public support behind him, and that all claims of his popularity are false!

That, sire, is quite an extraordinary piece of twisted logic.....

 

[Meengla]

From an outsides POV, its a disappointing situation for IK. Which country jails its heroes - can't imagine anything like this happening to Sachin or Kapil. Cricket is loved so much and yet the biggest icon has been handled disgracefully esp. because both the coming and his going was controlled by Pakistani establishment.

IK was more hostile to India and I wasn't particularly thrilled by his attitude towards terrorists (the good taliban, the bad taliban) and he might have done more harm than good has he stayed in power. Still, it felt more Pakistanis were part of democratic process.

A nation should respect its heros. Feels like Pakistan only respect jarnails - which btw usurp power overtly or covertly and self-appoint themselves as President, Field Marshall etc.

You have obviously not followed how Imran was propped into power, how he was sustained in power, how the Establishment forced smaller parties like MQM to support Imran in the National Assembly, how MNAs were coerced into passing legislation under the PM Imran, how the Opposition and the media were targeted for Imran by the Establishment, how Imran was working with a couple of top Generals to cement power for the next ten years, how discredited Imran had become by the time the No Confidence Motion came in April 2022 to the point that he didn't even use his Const. right to call Early Elections. Imran was so vindictive, so cheap, so low that when he went to address the Pakistani American community in America, he boasted about cutting off air conditioning to top Pakistani opposition leader who were in prison then. Under his rule, the Opposition was targeted using the Establishment and the govt machinery and there were incidents like planting drugs in Rana Sanaullah's car and putting him in prison for that--yeah, sure, Imran didn't do that, it was the 'Establishment' who did. Sure! Every bad thing under PM Imran was done by the Establishment. And you don't know how not only the Americans but also the Saudis and the Chinese became not fond of PM Imran; the guy was becoming a disaster in foreign policy affairs too--a gift to India!!

And I didn't even bring up the alleged charges of corruption against him--I don't pay much attention to those because I believe they are the norms in 3rd world countries, sad as it is to say.

A 'National Hero' has nothing to do with this when a man is too arrogant, too divisive, too stupid to govern a country like Pakistan with its dire vulnerabilities! Would you continue to support your A Grade son if he becomes deranged to the point of burning down your house?! The Indians would do the same if Sachin or Kapil went into politics and did what Imran did; he is in prison not for charity work.