AMCA vs KAAN vs KF-21 India Turkey & Korea’s Fighter Jets Battle For Air Supremacy—Who Leads The Pack? OP-ED

[MMM-E]

What ever dude

Chinese VIP member gives false informations and he makes anti-propaganda about Turkish Defense Industry and KAAN Fighter Jet

Turkish aviation Industry is superior to S.Korean one
and KAAN is superior to KF-21


I am saying again
S.Korean KF-21 technology

-- Engine from American GE
-- AESA Radar technology from Israeli ELTA Systems
-- Terrain-following/terrain avoidance (TF/TA) Systems from Israeli ELTA Systems
-- IRST sensor head unit from Italian LEONARDO
-- CANOPY technology from American TEXSTARS
-- AMADs from American TRIUMP GROUP
-- HELMET from USA
-- Main Generator from American COLLINS AEROSPACE
-- Missile ejection launchers from British COBHAM
-- Ejection Seat from British MARTIN-BAKER
-- Wheel braking system from American MEGGITT
-- Air to Air Missiles from USA and Europe
-- Cruise Missiles from USA and Europe

even simulation link system from Turkish SDT Space and Defense Technologies

 

[MMM-E]

What ever dude

In this status, the KF-21 would be easy target for KAAN in BVR combat

KF-21 has bigger RCS than even SU-57

Radar cross-section estimates of 5th generation Fighter Jets and their sizes against living beings from smallest to largest:

Tarantula (Spider) ▸ -40 dBsm
F-22 Raptor ▸ -40dBsm
F-35 Lightning II ▸ -23 dBsm
KAAN ▸ -25 dBsm ... -5 dBsm target
Eagle (Bird) ▸ -20 dBsm ... -10 dBsm
J-20 Mighty Dragon ▸ -20 dBsm ... -5 dBsm
SU-57 Felon ▸ -10 dBsm ... 0 dBsm
Human ▸ -5dBsm ... + 5dBsm


--------------------

KAAN with stealth design , advanced magnetic coating , S routing Air inlet ducts , Internal weapon Bays and RAM panel layer it could RCS value for X band 10GHz as 0.0030 m2 [ -25dbsqm ]


Official source for KAAN ( -25 dBsm ... -5 dBsm target )


Turkish engineer and businessman Ergün Kırlıkovalı is the producer of the special coating material that provides stealth capability to American B-2 and F-35

Now, as a Turkish company in USA is the sole supplier for these two aircraft, the B-2 and F-35. We've been the sole supplier for the B-2 for over 30 years, and for the F-35 since 2006, that is, for 19 years

Turkish inventor, engineer, and businessman Ergün Kırlıkovalı, creator of the polymers that make American F-35 jets invisible

From Idea to the F-35: The Journey of a Turkish Inventor Inspires Young Minds

From Idea to the F-35: The Journey of a Turkish Inventor Inspires Young Minds

yeditepe.edu.tr

 

[Indos]

That's why I say the Turks need to compromise. They can't find a proper engine anywhere, and a modified design for the EJ200 is the only way.

Turkey is willing to pay a unit price of 400 million pounds for the EF-2000 now. With such a high price, it is still an interceptor, the pressure on Turkey must be very high now.

Look at the Middle East, every country is going crazy with military build-up. Turkey can't wait.

EJ200 like F414/F404 is more into medium size fighters ( double engines)

Kaan is heavy fighters, even bigger than F22

That compromise would likely end up with complete design change and it could take years to do it, including changing the plane concept from heavy fighter into medium size one like KF21

Even making simple N219 turboprop plane needs years of design and wind tunnel test before the design is completed for prototyping.

 

[Michael]

My opinion is that Turkey will compromise on the engine of KAAN, choose EJ200, in exchange for the early service of KAAN. Because of the growing threat of Israel to Turkey, Turkey has no time to wait.

You're overestimating Turkey. Turkey doesn't have the capability. Switching from a high-thrust engine to a medium-thrust engine would require a complete redesign of the fighter. They'd have to pay Europe for a completely new design.

If Turkey's KAAN is to further develop, its only option is to compromise with the United States (including Israel) in exchange for US engine exports to Turkey. (Russia is also a viable option.)

TF35000? There's no chance of it happening before 2050.

As for KF-21, my opinion is that its future is suppressed by the United States like FA-50, and it will not have much prospects. Regardless of whether the US will decline, the US will suppress the KF-21.

The United States supports many countries in copying (or modifying) American weapons, but only for their own use. However, if these weapons threaten U.S. arms exports, they will impose restrictions.

However, if the United States loses ground in the Sino-U.S. rivalry, its control measures will weaken. Consequently, these countries' weapons systems will flourish.

South Korea has a sufficient foundation of technological capabilities; if they are free from restrictions, their development will be extremely rapid.

 

[MMM-E]

Even Turkish KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jet can match with the KF-21 in BVR combat



KIZILELMA has same advanced characteristics as 5th-generation Fighters

-- High situational awareness with EOTS , IRST and AESA Radar
-- Stealth design featuring a low radar signature
-- Internal weapon bay for stealth flight capability
-- Smart fleet autonomy equipped with artificial intelligence
-- Air to Air Missiles , Guided Munitions , Cruise Missiles


MURAD-100A AESA Radar and 185+ km GOKBORA ramjet powered air to air missiles to give tactical advantage to KIZILELMA in BVR combat



A first in the world: Unmanned stealth Fighter Jet took off with AESA Radar

KIZILELMA MURAD-100A AESA Radar performance test Flight

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Moments when the domestic AESA Radar integrated into KIZILELMA scans the area within a range of 230 km

 

[MMM-E]

You're overestimating Turkey. Turkey doesn't have the capability. Switching from a high-thrust engine to a medium-thrust engine would require a complete redesign of the fighter. They'd have to pay Europe for a completely new design.

Nahhhhhh
BAE Systems did not provide the support what Turkiye wanted
Turkish Engineers designed , developed and produced KAAN

also HURJET Jet trainer and close support Fighter Jet
KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jet
ANKA-3 flying-wing stealth UCAV

TF35000? There's no chance of it happening before 2050.

Turkiye is working with American GE since 1985

TUSAS Engine Industries (TEI) is an incorporated company established in 1985 as a joint venture of Turkish Aerospace Industries and American GE Aerospace


Türkiye is not starting engine development from scratch
Türkiye has experience in producing parts and modules for gas turbine engines since 1987

TEI has been manufacturing approximately 1500 parts across a wide range of products for the aviation industry in line with the principles of sensitivity and innovation since 1987 .... ( for 50 different types of military and commercial engine programs )

Turkiye has blisks and spools manufacturing also single crystal blade technologies which are currently produced by only a few Countries in the world


Turkiye has started developing Engine for KAAN in 2018
According to TEI , The TF-35.000 Engine first flight with KAAN by 2029 and integration-mass production by 2032-2035 period

The TF35000 utilize high-temperature resistant super alloys, advanced coating, and cooling technologies with its unique design

https://www.tei.com.tr/en/products/tf35000-turbofan-engine

Turkiye develops also turbofan Engines to power the KIZILELMA and ANKA-3 unmanned stealth Fighter Jets

TF-6000 turbofan Engine

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TF-10.000 turbofan Engine​

• Thurst (SLS, ISA): 6.000 (Dry) / 10.000 (Wet) lbf
• Dimensions (WidthxHeightxLength): 870x1150x3150mm
• By-pass Ratio (SLS, ISA):1
  • Fan: 2 Stage Axial
  • Compressor: 6 Stage Axial
  • Turbine: 1 Stage HPT - 1 Stage LPT
  • Combustion Chamber: Through Flow
  • Afterburner
  • 

 

[MMM-E]

Turkiye itself has developed everything after 2000s

Embargoes don't disrupt but help Turkiye nationalize defense products


1 -- Single crystal blade casting, considered a critical technological step in turbine engines, began in 2016 with the CRYSTAL Project supported by the Presidency of Defense Industries R&D and Technology Management Department, in collaboration with TEI and TÜBİTAK MAM

Turkiye is one of a few Countries with this high technology


2 -- Turkiye has blisks and spools manufacturing technologies which are currently produced by only a few Countries in the world

Materials and progress technologies also have an importance in the development and sustainability of Turkish Engine Projects , especially in the TF-35.000 Engine

( the fields of high temperature applications, super alloys, precision casting, coating technologies , ceramics and porous structures. )

TEI had to produce even the first Pure Nickel and the first Pure Cobalt in Turkiye
because they were also coming from abroad. while producing Engines


--------------------------------

3 -- Again, for the first time in the world, TEI produced an engine combustion chamber using the layered import method.

4 -- TEI has developed precision titanium casting and nickel superalloy casting technologies for the first time in Turkiye


There are two companies in the world that can process aircraft engine turbine blades with the additive manufacturing Nickel Superalloy method

one is General Electric from USA , the other is TEI from Turkiye

Additive manufacturing technologies


therefor , TEI produces parts for one in every two Planes in the world
TEI is the largest supplier company in the world ........ Producing critical parts for massive Engines like the GENX-GE90 is not for every Country

 

[MMM-E]

South Korea has a sufficient foundation of technological capabilities; if they are free from restrictions, their development will be extremely rapid.

S.Korea could not develop the KF-21 without American-Israeli-European technologies

Full of western technology ...

S.Korea can not develop even stealth UCAV and unmanned stealth Fighter Jet

 

[MMM-E]

If Turkey's KAAN is to further develop, its only option is to compromise with the United States (including Israel) in exchange for US engine exports to Turkey. (Russia is also a viable option.)

Turkiye has capability to finish the TF-35.000 turbofan Engine
only needs more 7 years ... Turkiye has started developing TF-35.000 Engine in 2018


President ERDOGAN
I always say this, and I reiterate it today: The obstacles we encounter on the path to our goals will only slow us down, perhaps delay us a bit, but they can never prevent us from reaching our destination.

We will either find a way or open one, and eventually, we will reach our goal.

Germany blocked sale of engine to Turkiye for ALTAY Tank
and Turkiye has developed 1.500 hp diesel engine and power group BATU

Starting from the end of 2026, mass production of the ALTAY Tank will continue with the domestic and national power group BATU, produced by BMC Power



Also Turkiye has developed TS-1400 turboshaft Engine and mass production start in 2027 to power the T-625 Helicopter

 

[flyingorca]

READ THIS FOR IN DEPTH VIEW BY SOMEONE WHO WORKED ON THE PROJECT

Weekend Wings #40: South Africa's "Franken-Mirages", Part 2 of 3

Last week, in Weekend Wings #39 , we looked at the South African Air Force (SAAF) and its Cheetah program to improve its 1960's-vintage Mir...

bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com

ITS THEIR INTERNAL DESIGN AND NOT BASED ON ANY EU JETS

THIS IS CALLED INPIRATION SAME GOES TO CARVER , IT WAS NOT BASED ON ANY SPECIFIC EU DESIGN BUT HAD HAVE INSPIRATION FEW/SOME EU DESIGNS

The South African Air Force

Privately run, unofficial website on the South African Air Force. It is maintained by myself during my (limited) spare time so please read the Disclaimer. I hope you enjoy the experience and visit again soon. All suggestions are welcome - Dean Wingrin

www.saairforce.co.za

Here is a link from South African Air Force website.
South Africa performed an update to their Mirages along the lines of that of the Kfir and incorporating some Israeli-built kit. In 1986, Atlas Aircraft Corporation of South Africa rolled out a refurbished Mirage III machine named the "Cheetah".

Do you even know why the fk are we even discussing Kafir and Cheeta? You are just running your mouth just for the sake of it.
The reason we are discussing the two jets is because South Africa had to get assistance including KITS from Israel just to upgrade Mirage3/5 during the same time frame Carver was being designed which is more advance! So use some logic that a same company that CAN NOT independently design and upgrade Mirage fleet has INDIGENOUSLY developed 4th generation fighter jet Carver.
The reason why Carver design has similarities with Mirage2/4000 or Rafale is because Dassault was tasked to design an aircraft according to South African specification.
At this point you are just clinching on your argument just to prove LCA Dhruv Arjun were designed by India.

 

[flyingorca]

Forgive me for barging in but doesn't this one looks like a Soviet f16??
View attachment 156466View attachment 156467
My point being- many designs in the aerospace industry
Have similar appearances. They are from the same time period and offer solutions for issues of a similar nature

It was very common during cold war for both soviets and west to copy and steal steal each other designs. Like concord - TU144 harreir - Yak38 and many other designs however the final product was developed using their own scientists and technology.
My argument for Indian designs is not that it was stolen or copied but that it was outsourced to the west and was done legally.

 

[flyingorca]

This is a really stupid argument you could apply literally anywhere lol... Not worth entertaining.


Baseless rubbish- to be honest, its just a very pathetic look when people are resorting to coping so hard. Just accept it and learn from it, the Indians built an Industry, Pakistan... well, i guess builds some bits for the JF-17.

Which european technology is it an amalgamation of? Design consultancy is not an answer lol, because in this case, the J-10 would be Russian technology due to Russian consultancy, same with the Z10 due to Kamov consultancy...etc.




Because Arjun and Dhruv were built with German consultants...?

LCA again, is a baseless claim.

AMCA for gods sake design is not even frozen so im not sure how far up your behind you had to dig to make this claim lol.


Why do you want to embarrass yourself like a jealous little kid?

Who the f is this guy? Wikipedia analyst?

Did you even read my response carefully or do you want me to break it down for you?

The indian guy said ALR PIRANHA and LCA have NOTHING in common.

I said both have cranked delta, air inlet in same position, and both are for light combat aircraft requirements. I did not say a random jet like F14 is same as LCA.

NOW **** off.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

The South African Air Force

Privately run, unofficial website on the South African Air Force. It is maintained by myself during my (limited) spare time so please read the Disclaimer. I hope you enjoy the experience and visit again soon. All suggestions are welcome - Dean Wingrin

www.saairforce.co.za

Here is a link from South African Air Force website.
South Africa performed an update to their Mirages along the lines of that of the Kfir and incorporating some Israeli-built kit. In 1986, Atlas Aircraft Corporation of South Africa rolled out a refurbished Mirage III machine named the "Cheetah".

Do you even know why the fk are we even discussing Kafir and Cheeta? You are just running your mouth just for the sake of it.
The reason we are discussing the two jets is because South Africa had to get assistance including KITS from Israel just to upgrade Mirage3/5 during the same time frame Carver was being designed which is more advance! So use some logic that a same company that CAN NOT independently design and upgrade Mirage fleet has INDIGENOUSLY developed 4th generation fighter jet Carver.
The reason why Carver design has similarities with Mirage2/4000 or Rafale is because Dassault was tasked to design an aircraft according to South African specification.
At this point you are just clinching on your argument just to prove LCA Dhruv Arjun were designed by India.

sorry dude your mental disability has no cure

YOU HAVE NO PROOFS THAT DASSAULT WAS TASKED TO DESIGN CARVER

YOU SPREADING/SPECULATING NONSENSE/GIBBERSIH/ BS HERE WITHOUT ANY PROOFS LOL

 

[MH.Yang]

You're overestimating Turkey. Turkey doesn't have the capability. Switching from a high-thrust engine to a medium-thrust engine would require a complete redesign of the fighter. They'd have to pay Europe for a completely new design.

If Turkey's KAAN is to further develop, its only option is to compromise with the United States (including Israel) in exchange for US engine exports to Turkey. (Russia is also a viable option.)

TF35000? There's no chance of it happening before 2050.

The United States supports many countries in copying (or modifying) American weapons, but only for their own use. However, if these weapons threaten U.S. arms exports, they will impose restrictions.

However, if the United States loses ground in the Sino-U.S. rivalry, its control measures will weaken. Consequently, these countries' weapons systems will flourish.

South Korea has a sufficient foundation of technological capabilities; if they are free from restrictions, their development will be extremely rapid.

Turkey is one of the few countries in the Middle East that has some industrial capacity. When America declines and no longer has the ability to support Israel, has the ability to threaten Israel's security. Therefore, whether Turkey is willing to back down or not, the plan of the United States and Israel to destroy Turkey will not be up. Because Turkey's attitude can change, its threat to Israel will not change.

Geopolitically, the US F135, F110, F119 are not an option for Turkey. China is also unlikely offer engines to Turkey, the WS-15, WS-10 are also not an option.

Regarding the engine project of Turkey, my opinion is the same as yours, it will not have any possibility of success before 2050. many big countries such as the UK, Japan, South Korea, France and so on have invested so much money and time but still can't successfully develop high-thrust engines, of course Turkey with lower industrial and technological capabilities can't achieve success in a short period of time.

Theoretically speaking, as you said, the Russian AL-41F1 is the only choice in the short term. But in fact, it not a feasible choice either. Now is not the stable year of relations between Turkey and Russia in 2017, and Turkey no longer has the political conditions to purchase military from Russia. Russia is also lacking in supply capacity due to the war. Moreover, Israel also has a strong influence on Russia.

From a practical point of view, if the KAAN is to be in service within 20 years, making compromises on the engine and making largescale modifications to the design are the only way.

 

[MMM-E]

Chinese are so unhappy with Turkish Defense Industry

Turkish UCAVs killed Chinese export

USA-Israel led UCAV export in the world by 2000s
then China led UCAV export in the world by 2010s
now Turkiye leads UCAV export in the world by 2020s


Turkiye has great Defense Industry with over 1.400 military projects including the TF-35.000 turbofan Engine which will power the KAAN in 2029-2030 period and mass production will start in 2032-2035 period

Turkish KAAN - KIZILELMA -ANKA-3/4 manned-unmanned stealth Fighter Jets comes as a very strong opponent against the Chinese Defense Industry


------------------------

Counties like Israel , Japan , S.Korea , India , France , Italy lack this technology

USA , Turkiye , China leads these technologies in the World