Lebanon-Israel War | 2023-present

[Shags101]

there is no purpose in pursuing a dialogue with you on these topics, you are too ideologically blinded.

Honestly this is the only thing I saw before going to bed honestly we can all agree or disagree but damn if people think everything the people that run their countries are pure and do nothing wrong.
Night

 

[Falcon29]

Where is this imaginary idea of Arabs "protecting Israel" from Iran? The only state that shot down some Iranian drones and missiles was Jordan which frankly is perfectly normal if you are even a remotely non-failed state as no state is going to accept its air space being violated to such an degree and the risk of debris/missiles/drones missing their targets and locals dying. In fact during some of the first Iranian attacks only a Palestinian and a Jordanian child died, with zero Israelis dying. This was back in 2024 or prior to June 2025. You can easily Google that.

And mostly it was US/allies doing that anyway and not Jordan. Most of the missiles went through with Jordan not shooting them down. Pretty sure that it was mostly only missiles that risked hitting Jordan itself that were shot down.

Curious to see if Iran would accept Iraq lobbying 100's of missiles, drones etc. across Iranian airspace and Iranian cities, towns and villages if hitting say Afghanistan or Pakistan or Turkmenistan or whatever. Pretty sure that they would be trying to shot those missiles and drones down too if there was a risk of them hitting Iranian civilians. Anything else would not be serious by a state military.

Also why this alternative reality? Iran never attacked Israel UNTIL Israel itself attacked Iran. Iran did nothing as well when Palestinians, Lebanese and Syrians were getting killed by Israel. Hezbollah did not do much either until the Israelis were attacking it.

You would never claim that KSA, if attacked by Israel and responding, or Egypt or Turkey or anyone else, was doing it for the sake of Palestine/Palestinians so why the double standards with Iran?

What has stopped Iran from June until today (4 months have gone by) from attacking Israel again for the sake of Palestinians? Why did they only attack/target Israel AFTER Israel was the one attacking Iran?

Every nation state/leadership is in it for themselves.

Let us not make Palestinians into some infallible perfect people. You have the same faults and problems like most other Arab states. Just look at the internal Palestinian political divisions or even civil wars just right after Israel left in Gaza in 2006. You too, if an independent state, would not be messing with Israel/US/far stronger powers for the sake of Arabs anywhere else. Highly doubtful. This is just how the world/nation states/leadership works.

While we speak you have Palestinian militias in Gaza and entire clans and tribes aligning with Israel and fighting side by side with them and doing their bidding....Less aid about Fatah in the West Bank and their active collaboration with Israel in the West Bank the better....

Who even cares about the ongoing Sudanese civil war were even more people have died than in Palestine? Most Arabs are only obsessed about Palestine while Sudanese are almost completely forgotten. This is a fact. It has been the case since forever. Back in 2014 people were 1 million times more preoccupied with Gaza than the raging civil war in Yemen despite many more people dying in Yemen.

Anyway it is not a competition but I don't think that you can speak about a lack of support among the common Arab or Muslim people when you have the most support (by the people) by far than any other Muslim community that is struggling.

It is this whole idea of some Palestinian that the entire region evolves around Palestine and Palestine alone that is off-putting for many Arabs/people of the region. It should not be like this. If people are consistent and serious Sudanese, Yemenis and every other Arabs and Muslims deserve the same attention and support.

Or since we are on a Pakistani forum, Kashmiris. Or if in South Asia already, Rohingya not that many years ago. The list is fairly long.

This is due to lots of internal and external factors

One of which is Israel/Western heavily restricting the Israel-Palestinian conflict debate, going after students and trying to force into written law pledges to not boycott Israeli products and so forth.

There are no such restrictions when discussing Yemen/Sudan. The people are essentially rebelling against the double standard, not necessarily in love with Palestine.

I see tons of coverage on Yemen/Sudan/Libya in both Arab major media outlets.

I'm sure people aren't proud of these conflicts and hope they die down.

Also Saudi and other Gulf states seem to be totally okay with UAE supporting the RSF. Supposedly that is the side committing war crimes. UAE isn't facing consequences for human rights violations. Nobody is anymore. The powerful in particular. People are losing confidence in the global international order.

Al Arabiya itself is more concerned with toppling Hamas covering Sudan for some reason.

 

[_Arabia_]

if you call Chechen salafists fellow Muslims, sure. not sure they would say the same about Hezbollah's supporters.


nonsense as usual


and what happened in 2000


yes, the Iran obsessed sectarian has the best advice for Hezbollah. lol. there is no purpose in pursuing a dialogue with you on these topics, you are too ideologically blinded. the Turks are more rational even if I disagree with them on other points.

Go ask regular Syrians on Twitter or in person if they believe your failed/moronic/low IQ propaganda of Hezbollah just fighting imaginary Chechens or foreigners while the Al-Assad regime and Hezbollah were carpet bombing entire Syrian towns, village and major cities like Aleppo, Homs etc. We have videos of Hezbollah terrorists throwing barrel bombs at Syrian cities in the dozens from planes and laughing. Tons of videos of them cursing Sunni Muslims. Their behavior was no different from ISIS just on a smaller scale but both had very harmful elements that had nothing to envy each other.

We have a former LEADER (secretary) of Hezbollah, who defected, openly talking about what Hezbollah and the Iranian regime was doing in Syria and their agenda.

Subhi al-Tufayli - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He was a Secretary General of Hezbollah between 1989-1991.

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Not nonsense, a fact. What stops Hezbollah from unifying with Lebanese state institutions? Nothing.

Even more nonsense (as usual) when you yourself would never accept/support a similar situation within Iran.

Israel withdrew, not because they lost to Hezbollah (lol) but due to a political settlement and no longer wanting to be involved after 18 years. Same story with Sinai which they gave up after a political agreement. Because if they wanted to they could have kept it today with US/Western support.

Yes, I am anti-iranian Mullah regime which is anti-Sunni Arab/Arab (by large) and has been as hostile to Arabs (overall) as other enemies like Israel. Most Arabs of the region agree with me, almost nobody outside of Arab Shias see the Iranian regime in a favorable light. Not any regimes, not any religious non-Shia movements, whether MB or any other groups.

You know that as well.

I don't care about Turks, Ethiopians, Italians here or any other outsiders as they are completely irrelevant for our discussion and the topics at hand. I am talking about and focussed on events in the Arab world and Arab perceptions. They are not involved in that.

Turkey is not a failed state like Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen etc. for them to allow Iranian proxies, harmful Iranian regime meddling etc. for decades so they will of course not focus much on that, even though most Turks are against your foreign policy as well in general which you are also well aware of.

Saudi Arabians can say the same thing, Egyptians too, as your regime has no influence in our countries.

But anyway Iranian regime and Iranian regime policies in regards to the Arab world since 1979 does not equal Iran or Iranians no matter how much you want it to appear like that. There are plenty of Iranians who look at KSA and Arabs very favorably and similarly with Saudi Arabians and Sunni Arabs who do the same with the average Iranian or Iran as a nation.

I can show you many such Iranian Twitter users based in the West alone. But it does not matter anyway, as my points about Lebanon and Hezbollah are all correct as they are based on ground evidence and not something I made up for the occasion.

As for sectarianism, despite not agreeing with the Wilayat al-Faqih sect or the Twelver sect, I care little about sects, to me an hostile anti-KSA/Arab/Muslim Atheist Iranian is worse in this regard than a non-hostile extremely devout Shia Iranian. So sect has nothing to do with this but it is a fact that in general only/mostly pro-Iran Shia Arabs are hostile to KSA/doing propaganda against us 24/7 (more obsessed with us than Israel) so there is that.

This was rarely the case prior to 1979. Just like prior to 1979, KSA and Iran (as regimes and nation states) had no hostilities.

 

[_Arabia_]

Honestly this is the only thing I saw before going to bed honestly we can all agree or disagree but damn if people think everything the people that run their countries are pure and do nothing wrong.
Night

Talk about being either blind (not reading what is being written) or as usual unable to answer any of my points. You have not even once argued against any of my factual points. You are just employing cheap idiotic rhetoric that is easily disproven and personal attacks(insinuations). I have criticized Arab regimes, including several KSA stances, 100's of times on this forum. My participation in this very thread is about mainly criticizing the lack of Lebanese unity and Hezbollah's role. All Arabs.

On the other hand you are a well-known pro-Iran regime user who I have yet to see even criticize Iran even once. I also believe that you were a part of/admitted to, being a long-time user on pro-Iranian regime military forums. I honestly don't need to know more than that as you are making it easy for me.

You are part of the same gang of this forum that are flying Spanish, North Korean, Jamaican, Nigerian, Brazilian (that Bharath clown that claims that Hamas are an Israeli proxy and who, surprise, surprise, is obsessed about KSA) etc. flags who are all Iranian regime drones who are doing nothing else than praising/doing propaganda for the Iranian regime while claiming to be Spanish, Nigerians, Palestinians, North Korean, Brazilian etc. On a Pakistani forum no less. Quite a coincidence.

Anyway you are yet to argue or counter even 1 single of my points. Nobody is stopping you but it is hard to take seriously or have any meaningful discussion when you are making up things or not even countering/reading what I am writing.

 

[hyperman]

did Hezbollah have another choice?

Israel escalated very quickly with mass bombings, pager attacks, walkie talkie attacks, assassinations of top leadership and replacements. and terrorist bombing near historical sites in Baalbek and Beirut, causing everyone to be affected and blame Hezbollah. they were in disarray and had to tactically retreat to regroup

the problem now is that the Lebanese army has been disarming the south of Lebanon so nothing is stopping Israel from moving in and finally occupying south Lebanon up to the Litani river, something it failed to achieve in 2006 and 2024.

Not agree to this BS "Ceasefire", that was a mistake. B/c Hezbollah ceased, Israel kept firing. They were stretched and Hezbollah made it easy for them, but seperating the southern front from the Northern front. I believe if they stayed with the warfare, they would not be in the position they are in, and Israel would not have dared to expand the field to Yemen and Iran if it was already stretched on 2 different fronts.

They gave up their positions and strongholds in Southern Lebanon, so all this is happening b/c of the "ceasefire", its Israelis dictating terms now.

Lets see how it plays out, and if Iran or the Iraqi PMUs will help. b/c something is coming, you might even see Israeli air support to the Lebanese army to fight Hezbollah or even an Israeli entry into Lebanon.

 

[hyperman]

Do you have any data (official) that confirms what you are saying? Most of the officers in the Lebanese army (according to the data that I posted are not Maronites or Christian Lebanese. The Army Chief of State might be a Maronite by default due to the retarded/sectarian/non-unity Lebanese system, but that does not equal military control. Case in point the example of Sunnis "controlling" the prime minister post in Lebanon.

Last time I checked powers in Lebanon are shared by both the prime minister and president.

A new President for Lebanon: What next in 2025?

Lebanon has a new President pledging reforms but faces significant economic and political challenges, including the influence of Iran-backed Hezbollah.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk

I mean Lebanon is not a presidential system, they are a parliamentary system (on paper at least) with the prime minister running the government and the President being the figurehead (head of state).

Anyway any data backing up your claim of the Lebanese army in 2025 being run/dominated by Maronites would be appreciated. I don't see any such material anywhere but claims/data that show that the Lebanese army is fairly representative of the overall demographics of Lebanon with Shias slightly less represented because they already have Hezbollah which is full Shia (almost exclusively) and already stronger than the national army (lol).

I looked/researched into it waay back, i don't have the documentation on it, but the higher ups in the officer corps are Maronite.

The intelligence and operational planning divisions are also largely made up of maronites.

 

[_Arabia_]

I looked/researched into it waay back, i don't have the documentation on it, but the higher ups in the officer corps are Maronite.

The intelligence and operational planning divisions are also largely made up of maronites.

As I wrote, I am no expert on the Lebanese army but the sources that I posted (declassified CIA files + Carnegie) seem to back up my claims and until I see sources/data (recent) that prove otherwise, I will stick to this notion. Now if you or anybody else here is able to show recent sources/data that show that the Lebanese army is mostly run by Maronites/Christians, I will have to backtrack and agree with you based on the facts provided.

Sadly we don't have any Lebanese or many Arab users here but there are many on Twitter and online so I guess this "mystery" could be solved fairly easily by knowledgeable Lebanese people but depending on which community you ask in Lebanon, they all have their own impression of the ground reality.

Also it is very likely that there is simply no public data available (outside of declassified intelligence data like the CIA files that I posted which are old nowadays) on the sectarian affiliation of the Lebanese army as it might be deliberately hidden from public view.

 

[_Arabia_]

Look at demographic makeup of Saudi Arabia. Now look at Sudan and Lebanon. What do you see ? One country has a powerful central authority and a flourishing economy. It's not guaranteed to be eternally divided over ethnic/tribal/religious make up of your country.

I agree, Lebanon's constitution/governing structure which was imposed by the French or originally designed by them needs to be revised because it's clearly counterproductive to the country's interests.

I'm definitely not removing blame for Hezbollah's leadership. Ask some Iranians here, I was historically very hard on them for their Syria policies and their overall regional policy. I trashed them for it harshly. I'm glad they're moving away from that direction now, minus some of the loud airheads on X.

What I'm saying is there needs to be a legitimate Lebanese army that people have confidence in as an alternative, for this country to stabilize and have a bright future.

Sudan is almost exclusively Sunni Muslim after South Sudan (mostly Christian and local African religions/pagans/animalistic or what you want to call it) broke apart back in 2011 officially and was recognized by Sudan itself and most of the world.

The Sudanese civil war is due to lack of Sudanese unity much like everywhere in the Arab world where there have been/are civil wars. Same with Libya, same with Yemen, same with Iraq, same with Lebanon. Sure, there are outside influences who are fueling the events (for instance UAE's role in Sudan is very destructive but at the end of the day it is Sudanese killing Sudanese) etc.

Libya is fully Sunni Muslim too and fully ethnically Arab-Berber/Arab mostly. There is no major ethnic or cultural or linguistic difference other than regional differences which are common in every Arab state of this size and every state of the world. The Arab world is far more homogenous than most of the rest of the world and countries of comparable size but why this retarded disunity?

At least in the case of Lebanon we are talking about sectarian and religious differences. Where are they in Libya or Sudan?

it is the same thing in Iraq, they also have a foreign-imposed (US designed) sectarian system which is not working and have facilitated permanent Shia control despite Sunnis making up 40% of Iraq (at least) if you include the Kurds. Yet Iran is very happy about this system as it guarantees their continued influence. Same Iran that helped toppled Saddam Hussein back in 2003 and openly bagging about it. Same story with Taliban/Afghanistan back in 2001.

Yet somehow many people (Muslims) act like Iran (regime) is some infallible group of people. It is very dishonest.

No religious groups or proxies are worshipping/have this kind of blind following about the Turkish, Saudi Arabian, Egyptian or any other Arab/Muslim leaderships. Never seen such people anywhere in large numbers. Here on PDF you will find Shia Pakistanis who are more loyal to/more willing to defend Iranian regime policies in places like Iraq, Syria, Yemen etc. than their own country (ies).

You have people with Spanish, Brazilian, North Korean, Jamaican, US, Nigerian flags here acting like literal Iranian regime bots. You know who they are. One of them is that Brazilian clown (supposedly) who claims that Hamas is an Israeli creation and proxy and who is obsessed about KSA and claims that the Hanbali fiqh (which is over 1000 years old and 1 of the 4 recognized traditional Sunni Muslim Madahib) was created by the Brits somewhere in KSA 200 years ago......

As I have ALWAYS written, despite theological differences, I have nothing against the average Hezbollah foot soldiers unless they are anti-KSA/anti-Sunni Muslim/anti-Arab by action or rhetoric. I don't trust supposed Arab groups whose identity/policy evolves around being hostile against fellow Arab and Muslim people. I don't like KSA users/people/bots who are doing the same without any reason/justification against fellow Arabs. My criticism is aimed at their past leadership and current (less so as they are new but I see little changes from them) leadership.

How difficult is it for the Hezbollah leadership to openly apologize for what they did in Syria for almost 10 years when they know that they were in the wrong? This would make a HUGE difference among many people, including myself and millions of Arabs who do not trust them any longer.

Belief it or not but back in 2006, most Saudi Arabians were passionately supporting Hezbollah. Many still are if the other choice is IDF, me included. Even despite knowing already back in 2006 what they were about and who they were allied to.

Syria, later their involvement in Yemen changed everything for many people. Their army of bots on Twitter (each Arab group have them - mostly moronic people by large without any opinions of their own) which are more focused on KSA to this day than Israel, despite KSA never firing 1 single bullet at Lebanon or Lebanese Shias, is all I need to know about what we are up against.

Unfortunately many Arabs in those countries never learn from their mistakes and then they wonder why they continue to live in failed/struggling states. They are not doing anything to help themselves or learn from their mistakes.

I don't know to this day why Houthis were/are hostile to KSA in the first place when KSA was the main ally of Zaydis historically and fought on their sides when Egypt was supporting the Arab nationalists.

Actually I know why, it is due to Iranian propaganda since 1979 which main focus has been KSA. The same Iran that KSA has not hurt either before they began their hostility. Last time KSA-Iran (people of both countries) had a direct military conflict was probably 1400 years ago, I might have missed some dynasties fighting here and there afterwards but in reality it is very little. They have had 100's of more wars with Afghans, Turks, Iraqis, Russians etc.

I have never seen such an irrational obsession before anywhere.

 

[Shags101]

Talk about being either blind (not reading what is being written) or as usual unable to answer any of my points. You have not even once argued against any of my factual points. You are just employing cheap idiotic rhetoric that is easily disproven and personal attacks(insinuations). I have criticized Arab regimes, including several KSA stances, 100's of times on this forum. My participation in this very thread is about mainly criticizing the lack of Lebanese unity and Hezbollah's role. All Arabs.

On the other hand you are a well-known pro-Iran regime user who I have yet to see even criticize Iran even once. I also believe that you were a part of/admitted to, being a long-time user on pro-Iranian regime military forums. I honestly don't need to know more than that as you are making it easy for me.

You are part of the same gang of this forum that are flying Spanish, North Korean, Jamaican, Nigerian, Brazilian (that Bharath clown that claims that Hamas are an Israeli proxy and who, surprise, surprise, is obsessed about KSA) etc. flags who are all Iranian regime drones who are doing nothing else than praising/doing propaganda for the Iranian regime while claiming to be Spanish, Nigerians, Palestinians, North Korean, Brazilian etc. On a Pakistani forum no less. Quite a coincidence.

Anyway you are yet to argue or counter even 1 single of my points. Nobody is stopping you but it is hard to take seriously or have any meaningful discussion when you are making up things or not even countering/reading what I am writing.

Honestly I really don’t read all of your posts their so long winded and pretentious I really can’t and to be fair I never said you were wrong on all of your points just that your extremely bias @Persian Gulf is Iranian but he can find many faults in his own community to agree with others I’m Palestinian and I can agree that many things wrong there but I don’t think you have ever had a degrading remark about leaders in your country that’s fair right nothing wrong with pointing that out.
Seriously night I have to be up at 4 am

 

[mangekyo]

Yes, I am anti-iranian Mullah regime which is anti-Sunni Arab/Arab (by large) and has been as hostile to Arabs (overall) as other enemies like Israel. Most Arabs of the region agree with me, almost nobody outside of Arab Shias see the Iranian regime in a favorable light. Not any regimes, not any religious non-Shia movements, whether MB or any other groups.

You know that as well.

I don't care about Turks, Ethiopians, Italians here or any other outsiders as they are completely irrelevant for our discussion and the topics at hand. I am talking about and focussed on events in the Arab world and Arab perceptions. They are not involved in that.

Turkey is not a failed state like Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen etc. for them to allow Iranian proxies, harmful Iranian regime meddling etc. for decades so they will of course not focus much on that, even though most Turks are against your foreign policy as well in general which you are also well aware of.

Saudi Arabians can say the same thing, Egyptians too, as your regime has no influence in our countries.

But anyway Iranian regime and Iranian regime policies in regards to the Arab world since 1979 does not equal Iran or Iranians no matter how much you want it to appear like that. There are plenty of Iranians who look at KSA and Arabs very favorably and similarly with Saudi Arabians and Sunni Arabs who do the same with the average Iranian or Iran as a nation.

I can show you many such Iranian Twitter users based in the West alone. But it does not matter anyway, as my points about Lebanon and Hezbollah are all correct as they are based on ground evidence and not something I made up for the occasion.

As for sectarianism, despite not agreeing with the Wilayat al-Faqih sect or the Twelver sect, I care little about sects, to me an hostile anti-KSA/Arab/Muslim Atheist Iranian is worse in this regard than a non-hostile extremely devout Shia Iranian. So sect has nothing to do with this but it is a fact that in general only/mostly pro-Iran Shia Arabs are hostile to KSA/doing propaganda against us 24/7 (more obsessed with us than Israel) so there is that.

We don't want to waste money on Arab militias and suffer sanctions and international boycott for championing Arab causes. But unfortunately it's not as black and white. You say stop arming and funding Arab militias, I'll say stop taking our money.

Perhaps if your own Arab leaders wouldn't betray Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq, we wouldn't need to have this debate at all. I'm not even blaming Arab leaders for siding with the US and Israel, but as long as you do, someone will need to fill that vacuum. If you truly want an end to Iranian meddling in Arab affairs, you need to pressure your own leaders to stop siding with the US and Israel over Arabs. Will you do that?

 

[_Arabia_]

I don't believe Saudi Arabia would entertain them which is why I said Saudi Arabia won't entertain it.

Though I welcome parties in the region employing critical thinking, even if it's fake or not how each party really feels, if they stop sectarian internal divisions and it results in less bad blood, I'm all for it. We need exposure we can't keep practicing avoidance. Europeans progressed partially due to exposure.

KSA and Iran itself (regimes) actually have cordial ties nowadays and have frequent meetings (political elites and military elites) and there seems to be some kind of mutual understanding and status quo but Iran is using its proxies actively (whenever they fear KSA influence) or disagree with something rather than communicating directly with KSA.

The message of Hezbollah to KSA was a message made by Iran I believe indirectly through Hezbollah in order to appear like Hezbollah is no longer hostile to KSA. Which might be the case by the leadership but their foot soldiers and supporters (at least online) are not replicating that so it is hard to take seriously. Hezbollah is largely irrelevant for the region anyway and not that important.

Point is that every Arab state, Lebanon included, needs to unify ranks and create/unsure that they have strong state institutions otherwise they will remain easily influenced by outsiders (which are only looking for their own interests at the end of the day, Iran included) and remain failed states. Look, the Arab (Muslim as well) states that have strong and stable institutions and do not have 100's of militias (or any for that matter) are always better off than those that have. Whether we are talking about Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, KSA, GCC states, Egypt etc.

Even Iraq is developing in the right manner on many fronts (luckily) as the Iraqi military (which Iran cannot control or influence much and which has close ties to KSA and many Arab states as well as West, China and main powers) is reigning in militias like PMF and others who are acting like independent groups and aligned more with Iran due to religious reasons (read up on the Twelvers and their political ideology and how every single Twelver has to follow a Marja (Grand Ayatollah) and his teachings and if he has given allegiance to say Khamenei, he/she has to follow them blindly - hence the likes of Nasrallah and some Iraqi PMF leaders openly saying that they would support Iran over their own countries).

I also believe that you like every Palestinian (sane) would prefer, once Palestine achieves genuine statehood, that there would be 1 strong inclusive national Palestinian army and not 100's of militias and groups each controlled/influenced by outsiders etc. Nobody wants this for themselves.

Ironically no Iranian user on this forum, who is supporting their proxies/pro-Iranian groups, would ever tolerate/accept or want something similar occurring within Iran. Which is why it is incredibly hard for me to take serious.

Honestly I really don’t read all of your posts their so long winded and pretentious I really can’t and to be fair I never said you were wrong on all of your points just that your extremely bias @Persian Gulf is Iranian but he can find many faults in his own community to agree with others I’m Palestinian and I can agree that many things wrong there but I don’t think you have ever had a degrading remark about leaders in your country that’s fair right nothing wrong with pointing that out.
Seriously night I have to be up at 4 am

Then you are just trolling or unable to use the search function on this forum. Not my fault. My point remains, you are largely pro-Iranian regime (your posts confirm this) and you are never criticizing them while you are criticizing Arabs all the time. Try to make it sense to me.

 

[_Arabia_]

We don't want to waste money on Arab militias and suffer sanctions and international boycott for championing Arab causes. But unfortunately it's not as black and white. You say stop arming and funding Arab militias, I'll say stop taking our money.

Perhaps if your own Arab leaders wouldn't betray Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq, we wouldn't need to have this debate at all. I'm not even blaming Arab leaders for siding with the US and Israel, but as long as you do, someone will need to fill that vacuum. If you truly want an end to Iranian meddling in Arab affairs, you need to pressure your own leaders to stop siding with the US and Israel over Arabs. Will you do that?

Iranian meddling is limited to a few Shia Arab militias. Overall their influence is negligible. You need to have this discussion with the small (overall) Shia Arab community that is pro-Iranian regime. Rest Arabs, vast majority of Shia Arabs, see no traces of any of your money and the last thing 500 + million Arabs and 20 + Arab states need is some Iranian money, when tiny UAE alone has almost 2 times the economy as Iran itself.

Nobody betrayed anybody, in fact only Arabs (to this day) have fought any direct wars (prolonged too) against not only Israel but the US as well. Only other Muslim that can even say that are the Afghans.

Also your post is laughable as most Iranians are secular, not practicing Muslims (lowest mosque attendance in the entire Muslim world is found in Iran despite almost 50 years of hardcore Shia Twelver Wilayat al-Faiqh Islamist rule) and given that Iran is collapsing as a country on many fronts (economically, environmentally, socially) and heavily divided (pro-Mullah faction vs anti-Mullah faction), I am not sure why you are making Iranians into some imaginary champions of Palestine, Arabs or Islam. Neither is the case.

The only reason why the Iranian regime aligned itself with a few Arab Shia militias, in mostly war-torn Arab states (nowhere else could your regime gain influence) is due to wanting to spread Iranian geopolitical influence and use those Arab Shia militias as a line of defence against the US/Israel. This strategy failed spectacularly anyway given how easily Iran was carpet bombed by Israel/US and how easily the Iranian "Shia crescent" collapsed once the AL-Assad regime fell in Syria. 40 + years of Iranian plans, 500 billion USD (if not trillions) wasted overnight.

At the end of the day, when it mattered the most (Israel committing a genocide in Gaza), Israel carpet bombing Hezbollah strongholds, the Iranian regime was nowhere to be found. It only acted after numerous direct Israeli carpet bombings of Iran and the killing of high-ranking Iranian regime figures and 1000 + civilians.

Meanwhile the same Iranian regime was happy to willingly cooperate with the US (and ironically Israel who was on the same page) when the same US removed Saddam Hussein and Taliban from power back in 2003 and 2001. Which ironically was the only reason why Iran even gained any influence in those two countries afterwards. Now losing it all mostly after Taliban regained all of Afghanistan after the US withdrawal back in 2021.

 

[mangekyo]

Iranian meddling is limited to a few Shia Arab militias. Overall their influence is negligible. You need to have this discussion with the small (overall) Shia Arab community that is pro-Iranian regime. Rest Arabs, vast majority of Shia Arabs, see no traces of any of your money and the last thing 500 + million Arabs and 20 + Arab states need is some Iranian money, when tiny UAE alone has almost 2 times the economy as Iran itself.

Nobody betrayed anybody, in fact only Arabs (to this day) have fought any direct wars (prolonged too) against not only Israel but the US as well. Only other Muslim that can even say that are the Afghans.

Also your post is laughable as most Iranians are secular, not practicing Muslims (lowest mosque attendance in the entire Muslim world is found in Iran despite almost 50 years of hardcore Shia Twelver Wilayat al-Faiqh Islamist rule) and given that Iran is collapsing as a country on many fronts (economically, environmentally, socially) and heavily divided (pro-Mullah faction vs anti-Mullah faction), I am not sure why you are making Iranians into some imaginary champions of Palestine, Arabs or Islam. Neither is the case.

The only reason why the Iranian regime aligned itself with a few Arab Shia militias, in mostly war-torn Arab states (nowhere else could your regime gain influence) is due to wanting to spread Iranian geopolitical influence and use those Arab Shia militias as a line of defence against the US/Israel. This strategy failed spectacularly anyway given how easily Iran was carpet bombed by Israel/US and how easily the Iranian "Shia crescent" collapsed once the AL-Assad regime fell in Syria. 40 + years of Iranian plans, 500 billion USD (if not trillions) wasted overnight.

At the end of the day, when it mattered the most (Israel committing a genocide in Gaza), Israel carpet bombing Hezbollah strongholds, the Iranian regime was nowhere to be found. It only acted after numerous direct Israeli carpet bombings of Iran and the killing of high-ranking Iranian regime figures and 1000 + civilians.

Meanwhile the same Iranian regime was happy to willingly cooperate with the US (and ironically Israel who was on the same page) when the same US removed Saddam Hussein and Taliban from power back in 2003 and 2001. Which ironically was the only reason why Iran even gained any influence in those two countries afterwards. Now losing it all mostly after Taliban regained all of Afghanistan after the US withdrawal back in 2021.

Buddy, what does this have to do anything with what I wrote? Maybe read my post again, but this time use all your brainpower?

 

[_Arabia_]

This is due to lots of internal and external factors

One of which is Israel/Western heavily restricting the Israel-Palestinian conflict debate, going after students and trying to force into written law pledges to not boycott Israeli products and so forth.

There are no such restrictions when discussing Yemen/Sudan. The people are essentially rebelling against the double standard, not necessarily in love with Palestine.

I see tons of coverage on Yemen/Sudan/Libya in both Arab major media outlets.

I'm sure people aren't proud of these conflicts and hope they die down.

Also Saudi and other Gulf states seem to be totally okay with UAE supporting the RSF. Supposedly that is the side committing war crimes. UAE isn't facing consequences for human rights violations. Nobody is anymore. The powerful in particular. People are losing confidence in the global international order.

Al Arabiya itself is more concerned with toppling Hamas covering Sudan for some reason.

I believe the coverage that Palestine gets (rightfully so in many cases) far exceeds any other coverage in the Arab and Muslim world. This has been the case as long as I remember. The only comparable coverage was the Syrian civil war but this was mostly due to the length of it, brutality and how many regional and global powers were directly involved.

Internal Arab civil wars, in my view, are not overly covered even though they have mostly (luckily) died down in places like Libya and Yemen. Only Sudan is remaining really which is a tragedy in itself.

I don't believe they are ok, KSA/Egypt/Libya (main next door Arab states) are all openly supporting the official Sudanese government. Many Arab channels are commenting on the negative UAE role in Sudan. But honestly speaking it is difficult to figure out what is reality and there are hardly any innocent parties in a civil war. Both warring parties are at fault (should never occur) and both are committing crimes. I am not overly well-versed in the Sudanese conflict in the past few years (I stopped following it closely much like the Libyan conflict that seems to have died down largely).

I agree with the losing confidence in the global order.

As for Al-Arabiya, they are a liberal (largely) pro-West channel that is not run by the state but some UAE and KSA individuals. Saudi Arabian state television and many other channels (public) have a very different coverage. But it all depends on the topic, I have seen even them be heavily critical of Israel. They are also inviting every side as well, even Houthis.

Anyway there is no denying it, there is not much trust between much of Arab regimes/governments and Hamas for whatever reasons. Which was not always the case as until recently, for instance, KSA-Hamas ties were cordial and KSA, nobody else, was the mediator when Hamas/Fatah had a small civil war in Gaza back in 2006. KSA helped sign a peace deal between the parties.

Relations were rather cordial for the next 10 years but somewhere down the road there must have been a feud between the leadership (not the people in both countries) or some mutual distrust, for KSA it was probably the closeness with the Iranian regime and Hamas switching positions in regard to Syria, later for KSA to do the same (accepting Al-Assad back into the fold after it seemed impossible for him to lose power), which was a policy I heavily criticized and told would backfire (so far it has not been the case given the many visits of Al-Sharaa to KSA and close/cordial ties) but there is definitely some distrust and I don't blame the new Syrian government. It was a wrong policy to try to "rehabilitate" (resume diplomatic ties and met with him) Al-Assad even though back then it seemed as a pragmatic move and as a move to try to sway him away from being fully controlled by Iran and Russia which seemed to have worked but by principle it was a wrong move.

There is also the element of certain MB figures being against Arab monarchies by default. This also creates mistrust.

Which as I view it and something I have always said and something I recall us discussing a few times, was always a very stupid thing to me (from both sides here) as they could easily find a shared consensus based on shared Arab and Islamist identity by large. Monarchies by default are conservative and tend to be closely tied to Islam as a legitimacy to rule from Morocco to Oman. More conservative in nature too in general than many secular republican Arab states historically and to this very day.

Also if you look at it historically, the MB (which was and is originally an Egyptian political movement) found refuge mostly in KSA when it was suffering from serious persecution in places like Egypt and Syria.

So this is one of the main stupid divisions within the Arab world that should be solved for the sake of everyone involved and the people who do not want this hostility or rivalry. For instance I do not want it and I consider the MB and it affiliates as any other political group or Islamist group, at least the ones that are not openly (senselessly) calling for the overthrow of regimes without thinking throw what this means.

Organic/natural changes are always the best thing and reaching a consensus with your own people regardless of differences in politics.

Any way I don't follow Arab or local media much, all have their own agendas, I mostly follow people (journalists and ordinary people) on the ground.

Anyway civil wars anywhere are never a good thing but almost always a symptom of huge underlining problems in country and lack of unity and weak state institutions.

Militias emerging outside of state control and supported by outside powers only looking for their own interests is never the solution. It is just a recipe for further disaster.

Which is why I am personally against any militia in the Arab world by default in a perfect world. Otherwise what is the point of a state and state institutions? Why not make militias for every village, town, city, region, historical region, tribe, clan, political party and the list is endless.

Of course there are exceptions such as when fighting foreign occupiers or when no other option (like in Gaza) but likes of Libya, Sudan, Iraq, Yemen and Lebanon have no excuses really. Not in this day and age by now.

 

[_Arabia_]

Buddy, what does this have to do anything with what I wrote? Maybe read my post again, but this time use all your brainpower?

Maybe you should follow your own advice as my reply is purely related to your hilarious post that tries to create some alternative reality where Iran is some kind of imaginary Muslim champion and sacrificing everything for some imaginary "Arabs" which in reality are just a few select armed Shia militias/terrorist groups whose leadership (a few people and their families) are the only ones benefiting from the supposed Iranian money.

In the real world even the likes of Iraq and the average Iraqi have a higher GDP per capita than the average Iranian and this despite Iraq as a country being robbed by pro-iranian regime Iraqis and pro-iranian regime (since at least the 2003 collusion between US/Israel/Iran back in 2003) clowns doing things like this below to hamper the growth of Iraq as a country and a people just due to the usual KSA-obsession:

‘This Is Colonialism, Not Investment’: Iran-Aligned Bloc Stalls Iraq–Saudi Deal​

HUDHAIFA EBRAHIM
09/28/2025

A quorum walkout by pro-Iran parties and armed groups halted a parliament session on an Iraq–Saudi bilateral investment treaty amid fears of political and territorial repercussions

Despite the Saudi-Iranian rapprochement in 2023, after the two countries signed normalization agreements, Iran continues to confront Saudi Arabia on several fronts—including in Iraq, where Tehran is working to block Saudi investments that could total as much as $100 billion.

On Tuesday, September 16, 2025, pro-Iranian Shiite parties and militias disrupted a session of the Iraqi parliament. Withdrawals by lawmakers prevented the chamber from reaching a quorum in a meeting scheduled to discuss and approve the text of the bilateral investment treaty between Iraq and Saudi Arabia. The agreement, originally drafted in 2017, has yet to be ratified.

Iran and allied Shiite parties and militias in Iraq say they fear that large-scale Saudi investments in Iraq’s western and southwestern regions—bordering Saudi Arabia and Jordan—could lead to a Sunni autonomous region. Such a development would weaken Shiite influence in these areas, many of which are Sunni-majority and share borders with Syria, a critical corridor for the transfer of weapons into Lebanon.

The Iraqi-Saudi project under discussion grants Saudi companies investment rights in desert lands along Iraq’s western borders with Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Syria, as well as in the provinces of Anbar, Najaf, and Muthanna. Projects cover agriculture, energy, infrastructure, and other sectors, and were first agreed upon in 2018.

In May 2024, Iraq signed 12 memoranda of understanding with Saudi companies for investments, and in November 2024, the two countries signed the final draft of the investment promotion and protection agreement. According to the official announcement, the deal aims to create a safe, attractive environment for Saudi investors in Iraq.


Shiite lawmaker Saud al-Saadi told a press conference: “This agreement grants millions of dunams to Saudi companies, which harms Iraqi interests. This is colonialism, not investment.”

Qais al-Khazali, leader of Asaib Ahl al-Haq, one of the main Iran-backed militias, said in a statement: “The Saudi regime seeks to seize vast areas of Anbar, Najaf, Muthanna, and Basra under the guise of investment. This comes in parallel with steps toward normalization with Israel.”

Farouq Ali, a real-estate company owner and investment specialist in Iraq, told The Media Line: “Iran still places a veto on Saudi investments, fearing Saudi economic influence that could expand into political influence.”


The businessman added: “Billions of dollars in investments have been blocked by pro-Iranian parties and militias in Iraq solely because they are Saudi. Armed factions oppose them for their own personal interests.”

Ali continued: “These investments would have expanded into other sectors, creating hundreds of thousands of jobs for Iraqis and stimulating industries such as logistics, agriculture, construction, and contracting. But all of this is postponed indefinitely.”

The idea of a Sunni autonomous region in Iraq dates back to 2006. After the eruption of sectarian war that killed hundreds of thousands of Sunni Iraqis, calls emerged to form a Sunni region composed of several Sunni-majority provinces: Anbar—which alone covers nearly a third of Iraq’s territory—along with Nineveh, Salahuddin, and Kirkuk. The proposal was rejected due to concerns about losing a resource-rich region, particularly the oil-rich Kirkuk.

Opponents also warned that such a region could sever Iran’s land corridor to Syria, since these provinces border Syria, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia.

Abdullah al-Qurghuli, a Sunni Iraqi politician, told The Media Line: “This is not about rejecting a Sunni region, or even about Saudi investments in Iraq. It is about the presence of Shiite militias near the Saudi border.”

The politician continued: “These militias seek to remain close to Saudi Arabia so they can strike if ordered by Iran. They also want to control these investments and capture their revenues instead of allowing Saudi Arabia to benefit.”

Al-Qurghuli also pointed out: “There are large camps in these deserts. Although these militias lack the ideas or tools to invest there, they will nevertheless obstruct the project.”


He added, “Saudi investments would displace Iranian ones and create hundreds of thousands of jobs, meaning those people would align directly or indirectly with Saudi Arabia. This would give Riyadh significant influence in Iraq—something Iran rejects, even if it has reconciled with Saudi Arabia.”
Abbas al-Khazraji, a Shiite Iraqi political analyst, told The Media Line: “No one can accept granting all of these lands to a single country, especially in such sensitive areas. There are already Saudi investments in Iraq, particularly in Baghdad, which no one opposed. But on this scale, it is unprecedented.”

The analyst added: “We do not trust the Saudis. Iran has previously offered to invest in these areas, so why reject Iran and accept Saudi Arabia?”

In recent years, Baghdad has hosted multiple investment exhibitions, with major participation from economic delegations from several countries, including Saudi Arabia. Dozens of Saudi businesspeople have traveled to Iraq, while Iraqi businesspeople have also visited Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia has already invested in Iraq’s construction and contracting sector and is developing several residential investment cities in western Baghdad, as well as the capital’s largest shopping mall. In 2023, Riyadh allocated nearly $24 billion for investments in several countries, including Iraq.

Majid al-Khalidi, a Saudi economic journalist, told The Media Line: “It is not surprising that Iran opposes these Saudi investments in Iraq. Tehran views everything through a political lens, while Saudi Arabia sees it as support for Iraq and a major investment opportunity for a country exhausted by wars.”

He added: “There are more than 13 agreements between Iraq and Saudi Arabia in the investment sector, some of which are still awaiting implementation.”

‘This Is Colonialism, Not Investment’: Iran-Aligned Bloc Stalls Iraq–Saudi Deal - The Media Line

Despite the Saudi-Iranian rapprochement in 2023, after the […]

themedialine.org

H

Thread 'Iraq News and Discussion'

Apr 12, 2025

There isn't a specific Iraq News and Discussion thread in the Middle East Section, so I thought I would create one for discussing news in Iraq.

Iraq sets November 11 for parliamentary election​

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/iraq-sets-november-11-parliamentary-election-2025-04-09/

• hyperman
• Replies: 51
• Forum: Middle East & Africa