Army Chief tenure to reset with CDF appointment

[PakAl]

It is instructive at the least. Our national psyche is a scattered mess. Always has been. Will remain unless danda is applied. Case in point the behavior of expats in foreign countries.

Jahalat is very high, even university educated are the same, the same then go in to power and talk all pro but cannot change their nature. The talk about applying danda is weak point, since the 1980s we received billions in order to allow extremism to be spread, petrodollars were used to open maddrassas, uni brainwashing, literature and the rest, our rulers may have received 50B in pockets but after decades through terrorism we lost 200B, 70,000 people, 10,000s injured. Our hard state is the one that made this policy. Today the same are making new policies. Pakistan National policy must be discussed with all parties, reach conclusion and everyone together can move forward.

 

[PakAl]

Sir ji, Danda must be used to fix corruption, mismanagement, making sure all Departments do their assigned jobs etc. Not to control how people think and judge your performance, Danda is not to enslave......

If Danda holders are acting out of their authority and oath, then it can never work ina positive way.

Just my POV, could be wrong.

The corruption is all done by the educated ruling elite and their slaves, they control judges, lawyers, police, governance, MNAs, mafias and the rest. So we are back to square one, Chor machaye shor.

 

[hnn]

It is instructive at the least. Our national psyche is a scattered mess. Always has been. Will remain unless danda is applied. Case in point the behavior of expats in foreign countries.

There is an underlying layer to that in developed countries i.e. the chance to a better quality of life. It's because of that carrot, that the stick works. However, in Pakistan's case the carrot isn't there, and the stick alone doesn't work in the longer term because when the equation becomes "what do I have to lose/how much worse can it get than already is" - the Danda loses it's value.

Case in point - IK's rise in popularity happened because of the promise of carrot. He was already losing that popularity when he was failing to deliver on that promise but then he was ousted before people became completely disillusioned that he was no better than those prior to him so his "fantasy promise" didn't get dismantled and his following didn't wane over the last two years. PTI loyalists still remain in the grand delusion of the "Messiah" when all he was, was yet another Danda Wali Sarkar but with a pretty face haha @Meengla has rightly pointed it out, the current system was already being brought to life during his tenure. The only change that has occured is the "actors". For better or worse, I can't say, we'll have to wait and see but I hope it's the former.

To conclude - if the current set up has to survive long term - they have to provide tangible carrot i.e. economic incentive, not just as numbers on papers, but as tangibles that an ordinary citizen can relate to emotionally as well, only then Danda will continue to work.

 

[hnn]

Cost-benefit analysis needs to be done but it cannot be a situation of analysis paralysis. People have to be given equitable offsets but the overall national interests have to be serviced.

But the ultimate national interests is the citizens of the nation itself if they have a good quality of life and a sense of belonging then everything else follows suit. The collective national ideology can only evolve through citizens - the feeling that I belong to Pakistan whether I'm Muslim or not, whether I'm Punjabi or Balochi, and the State takes care of me and without it I will have a difficult life - is the most powerful national narrative - that can not be forced onto the masses, the platform has to be provided where they can develop this national sense of belonging themselves (nothing can ever trump an idea that you forged for yourself)

 

[UndercoverJIX]

But only if you have secured yourself with Lifetime immunity, power, and above the Law status.

 

[PakFactor]

View attachment 160273
But only if you have secured yourself with Lifetime immunity, power, and above the Law status.

I'm sure that worked well for the Palestinians when throwing rocks turned into 2,000lb bombs, and us in 1965 and 1971.

It's statements like his that are tasteless and worthless, which make our community an international joke.

 

[PakFactor]

It is instructive at the least. Our national psyche is a scattered mess. Always has been. Will remain unless danda is applied. Case in point the behavior of expats in foreign countries.

That danda has been used for the last 70 years, and hasn't worked. It's insanity to keep doing the same thing over and over. Instead, it has made the national psyche much worse, as it's just glued together.

 

[UndercoverJIX]

I'm sure that worked well for the Palestinians when throwing rocks turned into 2,000lb bombs, and us in 1965 and 1971.

It's statements like his that are tasteless and worthless, which make our community an international joke.

Are you forgetting the spiritual powers and status of Hafiz Sab????

 

[PakFactor]

Are you forgetting the spiritual powers and status of Hafiz Sab????

You're right; we all have to retake Shahadat and redo pilgrimage at GHQ, and drink from the Korang River, and go up and down the slopes of Islamabad, and finally stone Adalia Jail to reaffirm our faith.

Maybe then, the spirit from Data Darbar will come out during the next Indo-Pak conflict and catch bombs and then throw them into rivers, saving us, while we grab dirt to throw at the Indians.

 

[UndercoverJIX]

You're right; we all have to retake Shahadat and redo pilgrimage at GHQ, and drink from the Korang River, and go up and down the slopes of Islamabad, and finally stone Adalia Jail to reaffirm our faith.

Maybe then, the spirit from Data Darbar will come out during the next Indo-Pak conflict and catch bombs and then throw them into rivers, saving us, while we grab dirt to throw at the Indians.

Man you are just delusional, but still you can try, and lets hope you are worthy of Hafiz Sabs blessings to wash away your sins and become pure momin like PMLN.

 

[Olympus81]

This amendment would have made more sense if dual nationals were not allowed in parliament, CDF not granted life long immunity and needing 2/3 majority to sideline CDF.

Form 47 government very stable, army establishment remains deeply entrenched within the power corridors, the courts effectively useless, despite this why resort to these measures?

Friendly advice to the boys. If your institution resorts to these comedy moves, rigging the elections will be an even harder job. Take subtle measures and try to win over the public, so that your rigging job becomes comparatively easier.

 

[UndercoverJIX]

This amendment would have made more sense if dual nationals were not allowed in parliament, CDF not granted life long immunity and needing 2/3 majority to sideline CDF.

Form 47 government very stable, army establishment remains deeply entrenched within the power corridors, the courts effectively useless, despite this why resort to these measures?

When Form 47 Govt passed resolutions, amendments to get rid of their corruption cases, and immunity to do corruption under certain amount. Their main man who made it all possible deserves the promotion and immunity.

Nothing complicated here.

 

[hnn]

This amendment would have made more sense if dual nationals were not allowed in parliament.

Dual nationals are allowed to be members of Parliament/Senate. AFAIK, they were not allowed. When did this change happen? I might have missed this.

CDF not granted life long immunity and needing 2/3 majority to sideline CDF.

Thia applies to President and FM, not CDF. The current CDF, yes, because of FM. CDF ≠ FM

 

[Olympus81]

Dual nationals are allowed to be members of Parliament/Senate. AFAIK, they were not allowed. When did this change happen? I might have missed this.



Thia applies to President and FM, not CDF. The current CDF, yes, because of FM. CDF ≠ FM

I mean dual nationals should not be allowed to become members of parliament and senate. The amendment should have included this. Maybe I was not clear in my last post.

Immunity to CDF, FM is a slippery slope. Few years down the line every MP, MNA will demand it. Concentration of power at extreme level with no accountability. Not a good step.

 

[hnn]

I mean dual nationals should not be allowed to become members of parliament and senate. The amendment should have included this. Maybe I was not clear in my last post.

Immunity to CDF, FM is a slippery slope. Few years down the line every MP, MNA will demand it. Concentration of power at extreme level with no accountability. Not a good step.

The dual nationals not being allowed to be a member of Parliament/Senate is already in place - I think article 63 covers that.

Yes the immunity is something I don't agree with either but it's not for CDF to get the facts straight. It's for FM title.