Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

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Credits: Irves Twitter channel

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

What type of analogy is that?
Why exactly didn't you use your cruise missiles then? Quantity issues?

Also let's consider a hypothetical scenario where in the next round Pakistan launches its cruise missiles, then in a protracted war who would have the advantage? Who has more missiles in stock and a larger industrial footprint to manufacture them in scale?

Then you'd say Brahmos facilities will be targeted and yes then that would lead to equal destruction of Pakistani facilities.

Whenever India and Pakistan have engaged in larger battles India always has has the advantage in the longer run due to geography and basic economies of scale.

That's why Pakistan stresses so much on making any war really costly for India and on MAD. This is to deter India from agression.

in other words, Pak. always hold upper hand in countering Ind!

 

[Sam6536]

Why use a Hook when we can K.O. you with a Jab?

But did you K.O. us out of the fight? I'll attribute the IAF air losses to better co-ordination and air tactics of PAF. But then Brahmos landed on your bases.

We can ramble all day on what the exact damage was and stuff like that but see the impact of this strike. The ante has been upped. There was no equal reaction on this from your side. I think you launched one Fatah which was intercepted near a Gurgaon village.

You claim S400 destruction, while the exact status is not clear there is no proof of destruction of the main module, the S400 is not a single vehicle it includes a caravan of multiple launchers and recon vehicles.

But what rules did this skirmish establish? Will this deter further Indian aggression?

Both sides also use Proxies against each other. Your PM stated the exact same thing against Afghanistan what our PM said against you.

"Any terrorist attack on the nation will be considered as a declaration of war"

This makes the threat of war ever more prevalent. We are on Ground Zero again.

The political will of both the nations and the role of USA and other nations clearly showed who was on whose side during this skirmish.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

But did you K.O. us out of the fight? I'll attribute the IAF air losses to better co-ordination and air tactics of PAF. But then Brahmos landed on your bases.

We can ramble all day on what the exact damage was and stuff like that but see the impact of this strike. The ante has been upped. There was no equal reaction on this from your side. I think you launched one Fatah which was intercepted near a Gurgaon village.

You claim S400 destruction, while the exact status is not clear there is no proof of destruction of the main module, the S400 is not a single vehicle it includes a caravan of multiple launchers and recon vehicles.

But what rules did this skirmish establish? Will this deter further Indian aggression?

Both sides also use Proxies against each other. Your PM stated the exact same thing against Afghanistan what our PM said against you.

"Any terrorist attack on the nation will be considered as a declaration of war"

This makes the threat of war ever more prevalent.

what was the objective of S400?

please define, then, we can discuss, about its success of failure


secondly, re. Brahmas, it was not an over whelming success (which it was supposed so), that explanation should be enough for any sane military strategist!

 

[Meengla]

• Satellite and Radar Data: Sources suggest that China's extensive satellite network, including its BeiDou navigation system and the civilian Jilin-1 constellation of imaging satellites, provided near real-time surveillance and targeting data to Pakistani forces, which could track Indian aircraft movements hundreds of kilometers away.

Right.
And if I recall correctly, just days before the May 7, 2025 conflict with India began, some Pakistani channels were already talking about how much Pakistan was able to detect in near-real-time any major Indian movements, including of Indian air assets. And that was also mentioned after the conflict by a very senior Indian military official as a major cause of concern for India and he said 'much work to be done on that'.

 

[Meengla]

It is interesting that as per Trump, Showbaaz called him to thank him for stopping the war. Modi merely gave a rather curt call- it seems he was unhappy that the war stopped.
Now the question is why was Showbaaz thankful and Modi rather unhappy?

Pakistanis don't mind it at all when Trump hyphenate India-Pakistan. But for India, the 'rising power', it is a humiliation that Trump not only hyphenates with the 'failed' state of Pakistan but also Trump disregards India's foreign policy of no third parties involved.
But you know that and most of this forum's Pakistani and Indian members know that.

 

[Corax]

But did you K.O. us out of the fight? I'll attribute the IAF air losses to better co-ordination and air tactics of PAF. But then Brahmos landed on your bases.

We can ramble all day on what the exact damage was and stuff like that but see the impact of this strike. The ante has been upped. There was no equal reaction on this from your side. I think you launched one Fatah which was intercepted near a Gurgaon village.

You claim S400 destruction, while the exact status is not clear there is no proof of destruction of the main module, the S400 is not a single vehicle it includes a caravan of multiple launchers and recon vehicles.

But what rules did this skirmish establish? Will this deter further Indian aggression?

Both sides also use Proxies against each other. Your PM stated the exact same thing against Afghanistan what our PM said against you.

"Any terrorist attack on the nation will be considered as a declaration of war"

This makes the threat of war ever more prevalent. We are on Ground Zero again.

The political will of both the nations and the role of USA and other nations clearly showed who was on whose side during this skirmish.

Both sides learn from each encounter. In 2019 you realised you needed Rafale, the PAF adapted accordingly and demonstrated it can effectively counter the Rafale.

You upped the ante in 2025 with brahmos and SOW strikes, most of which were defeated kinetically or non-kinetic means, and some got through, causing little damage.

You failed to destroy any high value targets, but you lost anywhere between 4-8 high value fighters, including Rafales.

The Pak military adapted by recognising a space for limited conventional conflict, below nuclear threshold, something that it did not expect, and in this regard you have succeeded. Pakistan has recognised that it needs long range weapons for conventional conflict, rather than just nuclear delivery alone, and inaugurated the missile and rocket force, with non-nuclear versions of its nuclear delivery platforms. This will include expanding production capacity.

Next time, you will have to up the ante again. But how will you do that while avoiding approaching the nuclear threshold? More intense brahmos and SOW strikes? You can't achieve any surprise attack or use your air force en masse like you did in May.

So that leaves you with limited options. All you can do is something similar to what you did in May, brahmos and SOW attacks, which had limited effect in May.

You could try opening another front with your navy, but all that does is invite a full scale conflict, and although that's something you and your ilk on here desire, even the most rabid of your political and military leadership don't want that.

 

[Sam6536]

what was the objective of S400?

please define, then, we can discuss, about its success of failure

It's primary objective is to defend Indian skies and the important military installations it is set up at, also to act as a dettarance to enemy fighters.

Now I would like to ask you one thing if you think PAF had such air superiority why didn't it directly attack Indian military installations? In such a scenario you could've easily taken out S400 or some important installation.

Every poster likes to claim that IAF was operating away from the border but why didn't PAF capitalise on this then? There were essentially no major hits on mainland Indian military installations.

secondly, re. Brahmas, it was not an over whelming success (which it was supposed so), that explanation should be enough for any sane military strategist!

Brahmos is not a magic missile. It is a Subsonic missile which India has in a large quantity. They can be shot down but it's harder to shoot them down given the speed and trajectory they fly at. There are not many anti missile batteries which can shoot down such missiles. You can see this in the Israeli-Iran war.
Also it is evident Brahmos did hit most of their targets that's what matters.

The Brahmos point people raise is mostly related to the pinpoint hits and the strategic posturing such an act brings.

Pakistan doesn't have any alternative to Brahmos, you have Ballistic Shaheens and Ababeels, Fatah 1 and 2 are just guided missiles which are essentially fancy artilleries.

Ballistic missiles attacks would've increased the intensity of war and as they are nuclear capable this could've gone very wrong. That's why you didn't launch any. Pakistan did launch many normal guided missiles which were intercepted and some hit with minor damage.

India's Ballistic missiles are Prithvi, Agni and Pralay.

End point being the skirmish showed that Pakistan was successful in the short term but it also showed Indian ability to absorb, and prolong the conflict.

 

[Meengla]

Despite Pakistan’s claims of “major damages” at the 15 airbases it targeted, there is no visual evidence—either from social media photos or commercial satellite imagery—currently available to indicate meaningful damage on Indian facilities
Indian missile and standoff air strikes, in contrast, created numerous signatures of their success visible via videos and photos on social media, Indian government-released satellite imagery, and commercial satellite imagery. Indian strikes created damage at a scale difficult for the Government of Pakistan to suppress.

Pakistan had already 'won' the war of perception in the air conflict on May 7 and Pakistan was going to capitalize on that and that strategy is a resounding success for Pakistan's geopolitics, even for Pakistan's geo-economics. Pakistan's brilliant former Foreign Minister Khurseed Kasuri is working on a book about the May 2025 conflict and its aftermath.

As to India damaging some Pakistani bases, not taking away from that: India launched its most lethal missiles in large numbers and they had to hit at least some targets. In contrast, Pakistan restricted itself to less lethal missiles. Pakistan's stockpile is not that big due to Pakistan's much weaker economy so Pakistan had to choose wisely.

 

[Baibers_1260]

It's primary objective is to defend Indian skies and the important military installations it is set up at, also to act as a dettarance to enemy fighters.

Now I would like to ask you one thing if you think PAF had such air superiority why didn't it directly attack Indian military installations? In such a scenario you could've easily taken out S400 or some important installation.

Every poster likes to claim that IAF was operating away from the border but why didn't PAF capitalise on this then?


Brahmos is not a magic missile. It is a Subsonic missile which India has in a large quantity. They can be shot down but it's harder to shoot them down given the speed and trajectory they fly at. There are not many anti missile batteries which can shoot down such missiles. You can see this in the Israeli-Iran war.
Also it is evident Brahmos did hit most of their targets that's what matters.

The Brahmos point people raise is mostly related to the pinpoint hits and the strategic posturing such an act brings.

Pakistan doesn't have any alternative to Brahmos, you have Ballistic Shaheens and Ababeels, Fatah 1 and 2 are just guided missiles which are essentially fancy artilleries.

Ballistic missiles attacks would've increased the intensity of war and as they are nuclear capable this could've gone very wrong.

India's Ballistic missiles are Prithvi, Agni and Pralay.

End point being the skirmish showed that Pakistan was successful in the short term but it also showed Indian ability to absorb, and prolong the conflict.

The eternal question:
With a 7:1 superiority, numerically, technically, economically in population and geographically why does India allow Pakistan to exist at all after 4 wars over 7 decades? Why a "ceasefire " every time?
Each time Infian generals threaten total destruction and "erasing from the map " and then accept a ceasefire.
Pakistan is still around, last we checked.
@Corax @hnn
@Meengla

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[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

It's primary objective is to defend Indian skies and the important military installations it is set up at, also to act as a dettarance to enemy fighters.

Now I would like to ask you one thing if you think PAF had such air superiority why didn't it directly attack Indian military installations? In such a scenario you could've easily taken out S400 or some important installation.

Every poster likes to claim that IAF was operating away from the border but why didn't PAF capitalise on this then? There were essentially no major hits on mainland Indian military installations.


Brahmos is not a magic missile. It is a Subsonic missile which India has in a large quantity. They can be shot down but it's harder to shoot them down given the speed and trajectory they fly at. There are not many anti missile batteries which can shoot down such missiles. You can see this in the Israeli-Iran war.
Also it is evident Brahmos did hit most of their targets that's what matters.

The Brahmos point people raise is mostly related to the pinpoint hits and the strategic posturing such an act brings.

Pakistan doesn't have any alternative to Brahmos, you have Ballistic Shaheens and Ababeels, Fatah 1 and 2 are just guided missiles which are essentially fancy artilleries.

Ballistic missiles attacks would've increased the intensity of war and as they are nuclear capable this could've gone very wrong. That's why you didn't launch any. Pakistan did launch many normal guided missiles which were intercepted and some hit with minor damage.

India's Ballistic missiles are Prithvi, Agni and Pralay.

End point being the skirmish showed that Pakistan was successful in the short term but it also showed Indian ability to absorb, and prolong the conflict.

go write essays on Shakespear tales


you dont even know basic facts about Brahmos, which, even person like me is aware of!

high on copium, seething delirium quite apparent

 

[Meengla]

The Pak military adapted by recognising a space for limited conventional conflict, below nuclear threshold, something that it did not expect, and in this regard you have succeeded. Pakistan has recognised that it needs long range weapons for conventional conflict, rather than just nuclear delivery alone, and inaugurated the missile and rocket force, with non-nuclear versions of its nuclear delivery platforms. This will include expanding production capacity.

Overall, a great post, especially the bolded part.
One more thing to note: The Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense agreement makes it harder for India to initiate a conflict against Pakistan--much harder. Even expulsion of Indians from Saudi Arabia and its rich Gulf allies is like an economic-nuke on India. And let's add in how closely President Trump, MBS and General Asim Munir are working together these days. Also add in, how openly China now supports Pakistan and how even Russia is more or less neutral between India and Pakistan. Even Russia!
Geopolitics for India has never looked this bad.

 

[kimjongun]

The main thing that matters is the number of such cruise missiles you possess and your industrial capacity to manufacture them. And the economics of scale as they are costly missiles. Brahmos variants have been in production since 2006 or so, there are atleast a couple thousand of such variants in service.

One manufacturing facility solely for production of Brahmos was just set up, second one is one the way.

Brahmos NG and Brahmos 2 which is likely hypersonic is in production. Nirbhay a domestic hypersonic variant has cleared tests recently.

India's ballistic arsenal in Agni, Prithvi and Pralay. These are nuclear equipped missiles with MirV and MarV. Brahmos is a conventional missile.

Brahmos NG-is not hypersonic its a lighter version of brahmos A with a more stealthy siloutte to be abled to be carried by other fighters the IAF has....reducing redundancy on su30s
Brahmos 2-isnt even developed yet only on paper...HSTDV is the hypersonic missile project of india...brahmos wont come to life as it will be replaced by hstdv(IF)
Nirbhay-a subsonic missile that has not even entered service with the indian forces

 

[Ibbi32]

Corrections needed in your post

Chunian claim is not validated

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Rahim yar khan is not an airbase. Rafiqui was never hit and all missiles towards rafiqui were successfully intercepted

Also the attack on paf mushaf we litteraly see 4-5 brahmos coming towards The base. One of them flies harmlessly over the base, two crash into the hills behind the base and only one impact is observed on the runway. PAF EW was our saving grace that day

 

[Meengla]

I've always said that the PAF should relocate it's major bases further west in remote regions, preferably surrounded by mountains,

I am sure there were good reasons to select the Chagi Hills for Pakistan's nuclear weapons test in 1998. The western borders of Pakistan with Iran and Afghanistan are hundreds of miles from Pakistan's eastern border with India. There are lots of mountains in Pakistan's west and the border with Iran is the most secure one after the border with China.
Pakistan already has a lot of 'strategic depth' so no need to believe in the old 'strategic depth' conspiracy theories in Afghanistan.