Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[DAVIDBENGURION]

Why would there be a "peace settlement " when the enmity between India and Pakistan is no longer territorial, but a generational religious conflict based on a fascist mindset of India's desire for revenge for perceived grievances over 800 years of medieval history.
Other than India & Pakistan ( and soon India & Bangladesh ) today there are no religious wars being fought between nations ( note the term "nations") . The wars are for territories ( Israel Palestine), resources, or perceived security threats (Ukraine Russia). The Crusades were the last wars fought over religion.
Siachen and "Ice and Rock" will matter very little in the larger scheme of things in the full blown nuclear conflict to come and nor will India's $5 trillion economy and the honor of hosting the World's Largest Slum matter. If India feels comforted with fighting and "winning " the Siachen conflict even as its adversary quietly developed nuclear weapons and nuclear tipped missiles it is certainly a welcome distraction so far as Pakistan is concerned. Other nations such as Israel are more focused on controlling a long term existential threat rather than electronic media narratives.over local skirmishes.

Again, I would rather not become emotional and just discuss plain facts. Whatever may be the reasons for conflict, one can see that in trying to fight an adversary 10 times its size , Pakistan had to forego economic development and put it in military. As a result, Pakistan in its quest to gain Kashmir lost the remaining half of their country which Quaid gave to it and its armed forces have become all powerful over their civilian govt. It's akin to an arm wrestler whose torso is razor thin but arms have bulged due to the frequent exertions on it.

 

[DAVIDBENGURION]

Banya talk ( Sigh) : In regards to maintaining control over "ice and rock" let me remind you that with a per capita GDP of one quarter of Mexico, India is facing an adversary China whose 2024 GDP at approximately $18.74 trillion is 4.76 times larger compared to India's $3.91 trillion. Consequently, China's GDP per capita is also much higher, at about $13,303.1 in 2024 versus India's $2,696.7. The costs of maintaining control of the heights around Pangong Lake began to pinch which is why India chose to accept the 1959 LAC proposed by China at the 2021 Moscow summit which raises a moot point why the 1962 conflict in that area ( Arunachal Zhangan is a different issue) was fought in the first place. Maybe Indian EAM "Laser Eyes" Jai Shankar can explain. Maybe the money could be better spent to address the malnourished 800 million population subsisting on $3.24 per day.

With a "100:1" advantage over Pakistan India can continue to maintain its troops on "ice and rocks" , even as the lines of communication between China and Pakistan ACROSS bits of " Indian ice and rock" are solidified and strengthened and remain secure. Any attempt by India to disrupt that "ice and rock" road will result in a much severer punishment than being dinked on the head with barbed wire laced clubs,

Hate to get ecclesiastical but one piece of sacred "ice and rock " an "abode" known as Mount Kailash has never been attempted to be recovered despite being defiled by the PLA installations of radar and Surface to Air missile defense assets, along with crew quarters fully equipped with heated toilets. This against the sentiments of 1.4 billion Indian citizens.

Again, you are confusing Chinese might with Pakistan's or did Pakistan become a Chinese colony and I didn't get the memo. The constant attempt to drag Chinese military or its economy when discussing India Pakistan conflicts is certainly amusing. Again I once again reteriate for your satisfaction, yes china is far ahead of India in economy and armed confrontations and if you take satisfaction in Chinese victories while your own country withers away in a mortal struggle with a larger military like India, well that's upto you.

In regards to Mount Kailash, we Indians are happy with its place and that china protects its sanctity, we don't yearn or claim that our sky god ascended to heaven at that place, so we will gladly kill ourselves and destroy our future in a vain attempt to obtain it like Jerusalem or Kashmir.

 

[hnn]

I don't see how one can fail to differentiate chat gpt from a user. Please don't see wikipedia data about the altitude of male drones being 9000m and assume they would be able to operate at heights of 6000m at Siachen with full payload and efficiency. Vastly more powerful jets of the IAF have struggled at lower altitudes of Kargil , let alone siachen. The male drones or ucavs operating at that heights would be operating at the limit of their endurance and payload capacity and would be easy prey for portable stingers. Real world unfortunately dosent work like that.

Firstly don't mention IAF, they can't even perform over plains let alone up in the mountains. Secondly, the service ceiling for Shahpar-III and Akinci is > 35,000 ft. Thirdly, ever heard of "density altitude"? - the colder air above Siachen makes the air more dense so practically making a UCAV flight as if it was flying at a lower altitude. True the real world doesn't work like that, it's why please step back into the reality and understand the Operational Physics rather than quoting "IAF problems" - for reference read on the rescue operation of Scott Fischer (even PA Aviation can fly better than IAF) - and I don't know why you keep mentioning "full payload" capacity when it's not going to strike a "whole compound" but smaller and less sturdy military posts. Again, come back into reality because that's the only thing you have understood correct so far.

The scenario of Pakistan and china teaming up to clobber India is such a far fetched one that you may as well land on Jupiter before that. The most probable scenario would be that china sits by the side and supply Pakistan with arms rather than take on India directly and risk taking a atomic weapon for its troubles.

Yes, and I didn't mention that as an imminent scenario rather as a hypothetical one against your idea of "Pakistan assaulting Siachen in future" - because that would be a military suicide and the more "realistic" and "strategically" better action would be to rather move deeper into the Ladakh Valley (if at all it comes to that) - you would have understood the mention of Pak/China hypothetical joint action had you first understood why India historically considers Siachen important (I'm still waiting for you to explain that importance and then weigh it against the present day importance)

My reason in mentioning the gayari avalanche was to point out that Pakistan would be more vulnerable to these so called precision strikes to cause avalanches (if ever they are feasible), in view of them sitting on lower ridges and the warmer temperature there which makes the ice susceptible to melting and break easily.

And I'll ask again are downward sloping ridges only on Pakistan's side? Is the Rear HQ for Indian deployment in Siachen at a higher ground than the deployment itself? Is Siachen flanked by Saltoro Ridge on the South and South West? Does an avalanche run down in it's local saddle or fly over the peak of adjacent mountain? Please understand the topography of the area first before mentioning Pakistan's positions on the lower ridges? Does the Indian side only hosts a wall of ice with no lower ridges or foothills where the Rear Command Centers are located?

As for the value of Siachen, "it is nothing but it is also everything". Either Pakistan army accepts a peace settlement which would result in India getting the whole glacier or it launches strikes across these positions, which we all know the results of. Indians would rather be up on those ridges looking down on Pakistanis rather than being on the lower slopes looking up like in Kargil.

Haha - "it is nothing but it is also everything" = "I have no idea what I'm talking about and my ChatGPT daily limit has been reached"

Pakistan doesn't have to launch any strike on Siachen, it has lost it's historical Strategic/Tactical value. The high ground advantage is mainly for defensive positions and India can keep it because it can't launch any offensive from that area anymore. Also, why do you keep mentioning peace settlement? Isn't your leadership beating the drums of total annihilation and conquest of Pakistan?

 

[Baibers_1260]

Again, you are confusing Chinese might with Pakistan's or did Pakistan become a Chinese colony and I didn't get the memo. The constant attempt to drag Chinese military or its economy when discussing India Pakistan conflicts is certainly amusing.

Your defense analysts like Praveen Sawhney, and Ajay Sahni don't find it amusing that the the Western Theater command of the Chinese military is now integrated into Pakistan's Northern area defense which is amply reflected in the US Congress report. THAT is a memo you should have got. At least your primary political opposition is more realistic.

Congress questions PM Modi, EAM Jaishankar as US report claims ‘Pakistan’s military success’ against India

The Congress has attacked the Centre over a US report citing India’s diplomatic setbacks, China-Pakistan defence ties and claims of Pakistan’s military gains, while Donald Trump again alleges he stopped an India-Pakistan war with tariff threats — claims that New Delhi has denied.

indianexpress.com

Again I once again reteriate for your satisfaction, yes china is far ahead of India in economy and armed confrontations and if you take satisfaction in Chinese victories while your own country withers away in a mortal struggle with a larger military like India, well that's upto you.

If a bankrupt North Korea didn't "wither away " fighting a multinational UN backed intervention from 1950-1953 and a bankrupt Vietnam didn't "wither away " fighting the mightiest super power in human history for 10 years. AND a bankrupt isolated famine ridden China didn't wither away fighting a Soviet Union backed sidekick India in 1962, Pakistan is unlikely to "wither away " fighting a Baniya nation with a hunger index bordering on Sub-Saharan Africa.
Pakistan was bankrupt in 1949 and we captured 84,100 sq.km of Indian territory ruled by a tin-pot Raja backed by Koi Hai army and what is more Pakistan has held the territory since.

In regards to Mount Kailash, we Indians are happy with its place and that china protects its sanctity, we don't yearn or claim that our sky god ascended to heaven at that place, so we will gladly kill ourselves and destroy our future in a vain attempt to obtain it like Jerusalem or Kashmir.

You have different take on another piece of real estate in a town located on the bank of the Saryu river in your northern state of Uttar Pradesh. We will leave that topic of discussion here with my comment that you DO make attempts to grab real estate where you can and you fight ONLY the weak and helpless. I agree that your appetite for taking casualties is severely limited as is evident in the 800 year old history of your "nation".

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

This is level of Indians. They know all along they lost and still being idiots... Now they want to wake upView attachment 160971

oracle, you always seem too keen to know, what they see or understand!
quite odd, for an oracle!

 

[Baibers_1260]

DAVIDBENGURION said:
In regards to Mount Kailash, we Indians are happy with its place and that china protects its sanctity, we don't yearn or claim that our sky god ascended to heaven at that place, so we will gladly kill ourselves and destroy our future in a vain attempt to obtain it like Jerusalem or Kashmir
Some points to consider:

1. The Chinese don't care about sanctity. They do care about hygiene and sanitation that is why the water of Lake Mansarovar is used for ablutions and wash rooms ( which by the way are located in the crew quarters at various levels on the mountain itself).
2. Israel cares about sanctity of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount, that is why it abides by the UN World Heritage rules, and so far no mobs of hundreds of thousands of screaming half naked savages waiving tridents, pickaxes and hammers have descended on the Temple Mount to demolish the structures there and build the Third Temple of Solomon. Israel's own judiciary and world opinion matters to Israel, at least so far as the Temple Mount in Jerusalem is concerned. That also holds true for the other 400 mosques in Israel, AND the 73 additional mosques located in Jerusalem. The bulldozers haven't reached them yet. But then there is no Yogi Bear over there ( nice rhyme).

 

[hnn]

Again, I would rather not become emotional and just discuss plain facts. Whatever may be the reasons for conflict, one can see that in trying to fight an adversary 10 times its size , Pakistan had to forego economic development and put it in military. As a result, Pakistan in its quest to gain Kashmir lost the remaining half of their country which Quaid gave to it and its armed forces have become all powerful over their civilian govt. It's akin to an arm wrestler whose torso is razor thin but arms have bulged due to the frequent exertions on it.

LOL - living in the past again? Pakistan is not fighting India anymore, the reality is the other way around post Kargil.

Since Pakistan has more or less reached the same level as India when it comes to Military for all practical purposes, and can now progress to improve its economy and resolve internal problems - which India perceives as threat to its regional hegemonic ambitions is the reason it has becomie more aggressive towards Pakistan so that it remains economically and socio-politically unstable.

However, this perceived insecurity is India's biggest pitfall - and if you don't understand why is that then let's just hope you don't have to find it out in your lifetime.

 

[Baibers_1260]

Again, I would rather not become emotional and just discuss plain facts. Whatever may be the reasons for conflict, one can see that in trying to fight an adversary 10 times its size , Pakistan had to forego economic development and put it in military. As a result, Pakistan in its quest to gain Kashmir lost the remaining half of their country which Quaid gave to it and its armed forces have become all powerful over their civilian govt. It's akin to an arm wrestler whose torso is razor thin but arms have bulged due to the frequent exertions on it.

Not emotional just facts:
In its quest to establish a theocratic state rather than a secular one the religious fundamentalists in your country rejected a secular constitution and Federal political structure envisioned after independence and your country broke into three pieces in 1947 . This was not what Doctorji K.B . Hedgewar had envisioned when he launched his movement for a "foreigner (mlech) free theocratic India" in 1925. The centenary of that event was recently "celebrated" in India but it is a pity that Dr. Hedgewar ( who died in 1940) didn't live to see what the effects of his movement had wrought. In disappointment Doctorji's protege Nathuram Godse assassinated Mr. Mohandas Karamchand and after he was hanged his ashes in Pune are awaiting immersion in the Atok and Indus rivers.
On our poverty:
We said we would "eat grass " to go nuclear and we did. As non-vegetarians we value our freedom to eat what we want without getting lynched.

 

[flyingorca]

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My detective work

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

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My detective work

View attachment 161040

so, on the day of tragic air accident, suddenly, images of AKG have appeared!

sore losers!


great work orca!

 

[Distant_Observer]

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[Cipher212]

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My detective work

View attachment 161040

Better question is, why is India still firing S-125s in 2025? They must struggle to even hit drones.

 

[flyingorca]

Better question is, why is India still firing S-125s in 2025? They must struggle to even hit drones.

I think they were recently upgraded. India used S125 alot and their fields were littered with missile wreckages which they labled them as pakistani rockets.

 

[Distant_Observer]

They knew 3 years ago how much of an impact the J10c would have.

I really want to see how Pakistani pilots will perform in a 5th gen.

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[Bratva]

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