JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Ak01]

Sure? I thought that the rd-33 was manufactured in Russia?

it is, rd93 manufactured in china is just a silly baseless rumour

 

[Oscar]

I originally posted my article in Tejas thread but in case it gets removed from there, posting it here too https://diamaniumthinkers.org/iaf-t...t-or-a-manifestation-of-deep-systemic-issues/

There is a comparison video of the airshow routine typically done and the crash - he missed a snap roll prior to that barrel roll maneuver which puts him in a more positive attitude.

What’s interesting is his plane of reference at that point during the routine? Is expecting the horizon to be in the same place he initiated that maneuver from? Did he mistake another feature for the horizon and initiate the barrel roll then?

 

[Night Memory]

View attachment 162877looks like paf is looking for funding for faaz lol, put on the poster in the back with jf17

Whats the lol for? Im glad we are looking for an indigenous BVR solution.

 

[Night Memory]

Sure? I thought that the rd-33 was manufactured in Russia?

Yes, i even heard that on podcast from quwa - @Quwa

 

[Night Memory]

it is, rd93 manufactured in china is just a silly baseless rumour

Uhh and what is your evidence to the contrary?

 

[Michael]

But Turkey is our second closest ally after the Chinese.

At the national level, Pakistan is closer to China.
At the level of national sentiment, Pakistan is closer to Türkiye.

J-35 is almost a finished product where we cannot add much.

Would you like to add an electric fan to your Rolls-Royce luxury car?

With regards to the engine, Pakistan could potentially look into/request a chinese engine config for their TFX jets.

That possibility does not exist.

The engine for JF-17 is linked with russian guarantee to china and the engine is even manufactured in China.

In the late 20th century, China imported complete RD-33 engine technology from Russia. The project was assigned to Liyang Engine Company, with the project number "WS-13".
Early test versions of the JF-17 used the WS-13 engine. However, this engine did not receive approval from the PAF. Ultimately, the PAF chose the Russian RD-93 engine (an upgraded version of the RD-33 engine).
Liyang Engine Company continuously upgraded the WS-13 engine. However, due to limitations in its own technological capabilities, the results were not ideal. The upgraded WS-13 engine was test-flown on the FC-31 prototype. However, its performance completely failed to meet the military's requirements.
Finally, Liyang Engine Company's parent company, AECC, directly intervened in the project, mobilizing other R&D resources within the group to thoroughly improve the WS-13 engine, ultimately meeting the military's requirements. This engine was renamed "WS-21".

Note:
China never established a production line for the WS-13 engine. That is, we have never mass-produced the WS-13 engine. Therefore, rumors that China produced engines for the JF-17 fighter jet are completely unfounded.

Currently, Liyang Engine Company has one production line for the WS-21 engine operating normally. The WS-21 engine could replace the RD-93 engine as the engine for the JF-17 fighter jet, but this has not happened yet.

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

We have imported more than 80% of military hardware from China and you're saying, for some reason we need to be loyal to Turkiye instead?

Why? What for?

China has fulfilled our military needs and helped us win a war.


What is buying from Turkiye over China got to do with building our own industry?

We pay, we get material. Whether we choose to build the same material in-house or not is nothing to do with Turkiye or China.


What do they have that is better than China?

Are Turkish F-16s better than Pakistani J-10Cs?

Is KAAN somehow going to be better than J-35?


According to whom? All military deals between Pakistan and China are secret and Pakistan has imported more than 80% of its military hardware from China.

We are talking about warships, submarines, tanks, artillery, air defences, drones, fighter aircraft, helicopters, radars, air defences , missiles, satellites, just to mention a few.

What has Pakistan acquired from Turkiye?

Couple of warships, some sub systems for F-16s, drones and a lot of Muslim Brotherhood.


You want freebies? If Chinese financing is strict, how has Pakistan ended up with more than 80% of its military hardware imported from China in such a short period of time?


Very nice of them. But have the Chinese denied anything to us that Pakistan needs it from Turkiye instead?


KAAN is just for Turks and Turks only.

They only started building KAAN because they were thrown out of the F-35 project.

Rest of the NATO countries are already flying F-35s, Eurofighters and Rafales, while the second largest NATO military, the Turkish Armed forces is still flying upgraded F-16s.

The Turks have no choice, have fallen behind their NATO allies, and have had to build KAAN for themselves.

If the US starts delivering F-35s, the Turks will grab them with both hands over KAAN.

KAAN is not equivalent to F-35. And, KAAN is in no way a suitable option for Pakistan. T-129 ATAK is good example of that. And Turkiye is not China.


Then what?

Pakistan has aligned it's foreign policy with China, not Turkiye and, I just don't get this Pakistani obsession with Turkiye. It's nuts.

There are so many posts on this forum that go something like, "Wow, China has mastered this super advanced technology, Pakistan should now partner with Turkiye." And, I think why?

You kinda sound like first wife jealous of second wife

 

[Night Memory]

At the national level, Pakistan is closer to China.
At the level of national sentiment, Pakistan is closer to Türkiye.

Would you like to add an electric fan to your Rolls-Royce luxury car?

That possibility does not exist.

In the late 20th century, China imported complete RD-33 engine technology from Russia. The project was assigned to Liyang Engine Company, with the project number "WS-13".
Early test versions of the JF-17 used the WS-13 engine. However, this engine did not receive approval from the PAF. Ultimately, the PAF chose the Russian RD-93 engine (an upgraded version of the RD-33 engine).
Liyang Engine Company continuously upgraded the WS-13 engine. However, due to limitations in its own technological capabilities, the results were not ideal. The upgraded WS-13 engine was test-flown on the FC-31 prototype. However, its performance completely failed to meet the military's requirements.
Finally, Liyang Engine Company's parent company, AECC, directly intervened in the project, mobilizing other R&D resources within the group to thoroughly improve the WS-13 engine, ultimately meeting the military's requirements. This engine was renamed "WS-21".

Note:
China never established a production line for the WS-13 engine. That is, we have never mass-produced the WS-13 engine. Therefore, rumors that China produced engines for the JF-17 fighter jet are completely unfounded.

Currently, Liyang Engine Company has one production line for the WS-21 engine operating normally. The WS-21 engine could replace the RD-93 engine as the engine for the JF-17 fighter jet, but this has not happened yet.

Level of national sentiment is as friendly for China as it is for Turkey. I personally have more positive sentiments to the Chinese than Turkey.

With regards to the engine i will let @Quwa respond as the claim was made on their podcast.

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

J-10C just called asking ... Hey where's the party at?

I also thought that Pakistan will have 4 to 6 squadrons of J-10C but there seems to be no news about their order. Since there is so much buzz around PFX & KAAN, Pakistan might be thinking about adding more JF-17 block 3 and wait for J-35. Will Pakistan add more J-10C before J-35 arrival? Now that’s something dependents on the situation with India.

 

[Ak01]

Yes, i even heard that on podcast from quwa - @Quwa

Prove it , link it

 

[AeronautIR]

Request a OpEd on NASTP with future view (2030 and beyond) and PFX to clear out their viability or lack there of, if possible.

There is a lot of confusion on these matters and in absence of clarity a lot of speculation that these projects are already a failure.

Sure... though the confusion stems from multiple reports on social media as PAF has not given a timeline of various NASTP projects...
Personally, I am more interested to see a break through in our jet engine project... in my opinion, it is far more important than 5th Gen aircraft as even Turkey has not yet produced an indigenous top notch turbofan.

 

[AeronautIR]

There is a comparison video of the airshow routine typically done and the crash - he missed a snap roll prior to that barrel roll maneuver which puts him in a more positive attitude.

What’s interesting is his plane of reference at that point during the routine? Is expecting the horizon to be in the same place he initiated that maneuver from? Did he mistake another feature for the horizon and initiate the barrel roll then?

You are thinking on right lines but unfortunately I can only speculate without more evidence... however, I have myself been through spatial disorientation during night flying and in hazy weather during day... hardly any fighter pilot will not have felt it when flying VFR or aerobatics without clear visual features

 

[hussain0216]

Don’t make fun of my Quantum Ai prediction model.

PAF Modernization Plan (updated)

• JF‑17 Block 3: Production continues till 2030, may see more blocks.

• J‑35 Stealth Fighter: Coming in 4 batches (6+ 8+ 12 + 14) total capped at 40 units between 2026 - 2030. prediction based on previous fighter Jet deliveries.

• KAAN (Türkiye): limited production 2027- 2029, Serial production starts from 2029-2031, Pakistan gets units ~2031–2032. Heavy air‑superiority role. Delays possible if conflict/technical issues arise.

• PFX (Indigenous): Prototype/testing ~2030, enters production ~2032–2035. Designed to replace F‑16s. Delays possible if conflict/technical issues arise.

• F‑16 Block 50+ (Stop‑Gap) → Pakistan might consider if available and affordable, possibly via Saudi support.

Fleet Roles

• JF‑17 → Lightweight backbone into 2030s
• F‑16 → Phased out, but Block 50+ could serve as interim stop‑gap
• J‑35 → Interim stealth capability in limited numbers
• KAAN → Heavy 5th‑gen fighter via joint production
• PFX → Medium‑weight stealth, replacement for F‑16s

Here is the bottom Line:

JF‑17 stays as backbone → J‑35 fills gap → KAAN partnership gives heavy punch → PFX ensures long‑term independence.

You forgot the millennium falcon, if everything goes to plan we should be getting at least 40 of those between 2028 and 2035

 

[Bilal]

Sure... though the confusion stems from multiple reports on social media as PAF has not given a timeline of various NASTP projects...
Personally, I am more interested to see a break through in our jet engine project... in my opinion, it is far more important than 5th Gen aircraft as even Turkey has not yet produced an indigenous top notch turbofan.

There is a Technology development roadmap of NASTP. It needs to be shown at least in broad strokes, to show what are the goals and rough timelines.

And I may be getting ahead of myself, equally important to an en engine project would be some local sovereign semiconductor fab capability, both in logic and power semiconductor domains.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Sure... though the confusion stems from multiple reports on social media as PAF has not given a timeline of various NASTP projects...
Personally, I am more interested to see a break through in our jet engine project... in my opinion, it is far more important than 5th Gen aircraft as even Turkey has not yet produced an indigenous top notch turbofan.

If Turkieye has not yet produced one, then how can we think Pakistan can start and develop an engine ? Maybe one for a cruise missile, but that would be the limit of Pakistan's current scientific/engineering, institutional and infrastructure capabilities would allow.