Iranian Navy | News and Discussions

[ToddE]

(A) Conventionally powered submarines like the Kilo class or the future Besat will certainly be deployed in blue waters, allowing them to remain for extended periods away from national or friendly ports and as close as possible to those of potential adversaries. This is not so much to engage in battle, but to ensure, in peacetime or, better yet, during times of crisis, that less friendly nations must maintain their naval forces to "monitor" these Iranian submarines close to home.
To achieve this goal, it is essential to have ships capable of supporting and resupplying them; they can be part of the commercial or military fleet.
I believe, indeed, I hope, that the Makran and Kordestan ships are already equipped for this type of mission.

Iran currently does not have the resources or will to establish any blue water naval arm. Even if it somehow gets one, what purpose will that serve ? it will become a defence budget trap for years and in the end it wont be able to take on USN or NATO navies so then what will it be for?

10 MOWJs are already there (including upgraded Alvands), IRIN+IRGCN have 17-18 Corvettes/Frigates and some 24 Missile attack Vessels, then they keep on adding forward ocean bases (currently 6?). None of these are adding any strategic value to Iranian naval arm because the kind of adversaries Iran have will sink all these vessels without much trouble in case of war. They have virtually no air cover, can be targeted by ALBMs/AShCM from distance or from below surface. Irans only solution in that case will again be the reciprocating attacks on enemy ships to establish deterence. Current options are again limited to AShCM/AShBMs or mining. Iranian naval surface fleets need air cover in PG and larger submarines for outside PG to establish balanced defensive-offensive capabilities. If they cant move on with Besat, its time to pump money into Fateh class instead of 5 more MOWJs or 10 more forward ocean bases.

 

[ToddE]

Completely agreed.

For combat operations Fateh class is a must. At least the two in construction would give IRIN much more credibility in combat.

Mowj are useful and needed as a intermediate stage to a blue water navy. But no real combat capability against peer adversaries.

Surface fleet is a sitting duck currently from air, none has any efficient air-defence. Naval planners from even Shahi times never thought of creating their own naval combat aviation wing despite having F-14A inside Iran.

 

[sahureka2]

Iran currently does not have the resources or will to establish any blue water naval arm. Even if it somehow gets one, what purpose will that serve ? it will become a defence budget trap for years and in the end it wont be able to take on USN or NATO navies so then what will it be for?

If you have blue-water submarines, you use them in blue waters. Otherwise, there's no point in acquiring submarines with those characteristics, and there's no point in building the Besat.
For the Persian Gulf, given the shallow waters, midget submarines, and at most the Fateh-class, are sufficient.
But the Besat class are in Iran's plans, so they intend to use them, along with the Kilo-class, in blue waters, which means they need surface vessels to support them.

 

[Wudangmaster2]

Surface fleet is a sitting duck currently from air, none has any efficient air-defence. Naval planners from even Shahi times never thought of creating their own naval combat aviation wing despite having F-14A inside Iran.

I thought there were plans for IIN to acquire a large F-18 fleet along with a carrier by the late 80s, after IIAF got all the F-16s and extra tomcats. All this in accordance to answer to history.

 

[Homajon]

Iran’s Maritime Power Play: Strategic Patterns and the 2024 Strait of Hormuz Crisis

As global geopolitical attention is fixated on the wars in Gaza and Ukraine, Iran has chosen to optimize its strategic position in the most advantageous area, the Strait of Hormuz.

moderndiplomacy.eu

I guess that is the reason why after the snapback was activated, China actually increased its trade with Iran and especially purchases more Iranian oil, otherwise Iran would not have any reason anymore to not close the strait.

 

[ToddE]

If you have blue-water submarines, you use them in blue waters. Otherwise, there's no point in acquiring submarines with those characteristics, and there's no point in building the Besat.
For the Persian Gulf, given the shallow waters, midget submarines, and at most the Fateh-class, are sufficient.
But the Besat class are in Iran's plans, so they intend to use them, along with the Kilo-class, in blue waters, which means they need surface vessels to support them.

Fateh is delayed by years

Besat is nowhere new completion

We can talk of blue and green and brown water navy here as much as we can but capabilities are not being built at right pace because money is being wasted in a disbalanced way on conventional corvettes who will be targetted even inside Persian Gulf by enemy because they have no air cover and navy has no means to strike blows at enemy outside AShBM covering range which is where attack submarines come in and I see no urgency in building that capability.

 

[sahureka2]

Fateh is delayed by years

Besat is nowhere new completion

We can talk of blue and green and brown water navy here as much as we can but capabilities are not being built at right pace because money is being wasted in a disbalanced way on conventional corvettes who will be targetted even inside Persian Gulf by enemy because they have no air cover and navy has no means to strike blows at enemy outside AShBM covering range which is where attack submarines come in and I see no urgency in building that capability.

The Fateh is roughly the same class as the U-206 or Toti class, making it ideally suited to potentially conducting ambush missions in shallow waters such as the Persian Gulf, the sea areas facing the Strait of Hormuz, and capable of carrying out such missions in the Gulf of Oman and the Red Sea, where there are suitable locations for these submarines and where ships are virtually forced to pass. On the other hand, the three Kilo-class submarines, in terms of size, displacement, maximum diving capacity, submerged speed, silent submerged performance, and endurance, are effectively submarines with the ability to patrol and search and destroy enemy surface vessels and submarines, suitable for carrying out such missions in the oceans. Therefore, in order to increase their patrolling time in distant seas, naval units capable of supporting them are needed. I believe that, without publicity, the Iranian Navy has already prepared this service.

 

[Flotilla]

The Fateh is roughly the same class as the U-206 or Toti class, making it ideally suited to potentially conducting ambush missions in shallow waters such as the Persian Gulf, the sea areas facing the Strait of Hormuz, and capable of carrying out such missions in the Gulf of Oman and the Red Sea, where there are suitable locations for these submarines and where ships are virtually forced to pass. On the other hand, the three Kilo-class submarines, in terms of size, displacement, maximum diving capacity, submerged speed, silent submerged performance, and endurance, are effectively submarines with the ability to patrol and search and destroy enemy surface vessels and submarines, suitable for carrying out such missions in the oceans. Therefore, in order to increase their patrolling time in distant seas, naval units capable of supporting them are needed. I believe that, without publicity, the Iranian Navy has already prepared this service.

IMO Fateh is the logical and more realistic step towards the oceanic Navy. There were evidences of fitting out two units more (Persian Gulf brought the pictures). While the open seas capability is limited, It should allow some weeks near inside the Gulf of Omán. Remember IRIN have build a real oceanic Deep port close to Bandar e Jask. That is the suitable naval base for those medium submarines.
The problem of the Kilo class It is that their hull is very old and have lived a lot of cycles. Or IRIN purchase new Kilos or Amur submarines or just go ahead for Besat class. But before building something so ambitious the best It is operate some years a flotilla of Fateh and then jump to Besat.

 

[Flotilla]

In a Telegram group have been again published the old picture of Gral Salami visiting ISOICO where were visible the pressure hulls of Fateh 2 & 3.

That picture must be two years old aprox. Those two submarines should be at stage of fitting out.

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Anyway some rumors have said that IRIN is transfering some constructions to adjascent shipyards because inaceptable delays in the constructions. Hope they're wrong.

Fateh is more than necessary right now.

 

[kastor ville]

The single best naval defense that Iran has is the ability to close the Strait of Hormuz.....
Let me say it again for the strategist in Iran....... The single best naval defense that Iran has is the closure of Strait of Hormuz.
It doesn't matter that the United States does not buy oil from the Gulf. The oil market is international. If the price of oil in the Gulf goes up, the price goes up everywhere, even inside the United States.
If we were ever to get seriously targeted. Iranians must think about this option of Last Resort.
Also it wouldn't hurt for the UAE gas terminal to blow up during the conflict. Not to mention saudi arabia's massive oil field getting a few stray missiles, by mistake, of course.
Iran can effectively sink the global economy. The cost to go to war against Iran could easily top trillions of dollars........ This has been, and still remains our best defense against the western aggression.

 

[OldTwilight]

The single best naval defense that Iran has is the ability to close the Strait of Hormuz.....
Let me say it again for the strategist in Iran....... The single best naval defense that Iran has is the closure of Strait of Hormuz.
It doesn't matter that the United States does not buy oil from the Gulf. The oil market is international. If the price of oil in the Gulf goes up, the price goes up everywhere, even inside the United States.
If we were ever to get seriously targeted. Iranians must think about this option of Last Resort.
Also it wouldn't hurt for the UAE gas terminal to blow up during the conflict. Not to mention saudi arabia's massive oil field getting a few stray missiles, by mistake, of course.
Iran can effectively sink the global economy. The cost to go to war against Iran could easily top trillions of dollars........ This has been, and still remains our best defense against the western aggression.

after the takeover of Venezuela, USA will come to finish Iran .... at that time , they won't care about Straits of Hormuz and Persian Gulf oils ( which china and India are biggest consumer of it )

 

[Flotilla]

after the takeover of Venezuela, USA will come to finish Iran .... at that time , they won't care about Straits of Hormuz and Persian Gulf oils ( which china and India are biggest consumer of it )

Let´s be honest.
US has stationed at Caribe sea at much 15.000 or 20.000 troops (not all of them are deployable). Do you think they can even topple the Maduro´s government?. They´re playing cards and they have the hope Maduro goes away because the naval blockade and military pressure.

 

[OldTwilight]

Let´s be honest.
US has stationed at Caribe sea at much 15.000 or 20.000 troops (not all of them are deployable). Do you think they can even topple the Maduro´s government?. They´re playing cards and they have the hope Maduro goes away because the naval blockade and military pressure.

probably CIA already bought some officiers ... when a Government stop paying good enough to its troops , it lose support

 

[vizier]

Another force multiplier option is to improve naval drones. They dont carry much but would work well for a defensive situation.

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In the videos it is observable that some of them carry surface to air missiles against helicopters. The problem with these drones is they are one time use only. I think they can be of multiple use like within 500km radius for anti submarine or anti ship roles. Instead of a heavy kamikaze warhead if it deploys a sonobuoy and carries a torpedo or two underneath it can wait for subs and hunt the submarine. For anti-shipping missions it can also carry a single mini anti ship missile and launch it to ships instead of destroying itself with a kamikaze option.

Ecm is another concern. For long range missions since there is no starlink a jam resistant communication link is necessary. For short range missions close to shores like 30-40km fiber optical cables can be used with these drones connected to the ground station. Cable can be towed to an antenna rising high above the drone.

 

[kastor ville]

after the takeover of Venezuela, USA will come to finish Iran .... at that time , they won't care about Straits of Hormuz and Persian Gulf oils ( which china and India are biggest consumer of it )

Not going to happen....you guys give too much credit to these guys, yes, they can bomb people at will......but to take over a country like Iran? Good luck with that....they couldn't beat the sandal wearing Taliban fighters.....you think they can take over Iran? Iran has cards to play, but it needs to play them like a crazy sonofabitch. Iran's nuke is the closure of the strait. But, it needs to have a plan to prevent them from opening it.....that's what would make it worthwhile. I would send a letter declaring that, if you attack us, we will do this. Let them discuss it to see if it's worth it to bomb a country half a world away for Israel's benefit.