Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[rafale]

is very important to understand. All of our CMs are declared dual-capable, and the cherry on top is the First-Use Policy (tied to our nuclear doctrine) which makes it a very risky gamble to use a CM (even with conventional warhead) because of the perceived ambiguity at adversary's end (which is also a nuclear power).

The F4 system is designed to fill that gap, but it's sub-sonic (a separate discussion).

The second capability gap is the longer ranged SOWs. The ARFC was raised post-May to fill that gap, and I'm sure this gap will also be filled for PAF (although I'm not aware of any details on it). Loitering Munitions is also being adopted as a filler for this gap.

And lastly, the restraint comes down to a simple existential question i.e. Do we want a full-scale war and risk nuclear showdown?

So, while it is easy to call for "no-restraint" response but the consequences of such actions are pretty obvious, and not in the interest of either country.

Either country? Pakistan is being appreciated all over the world for its maturity and level headedness during the intense 4 days conflict.

Had it not been for trade volume by numbers, even the Europeans would have come out against Indians for doing the bullshit bhindoor blunder.

But regarding the bolded part of your comment, Bhindians are vile people. The more of them are dead, the better. And they are so vile that they will actually go nuclear because they have plenty of shit-kumars whose life for them is cheaper than proverbial cannon fodder. They will not care about consequences, but just their inherent inferiority complex to save face. Remember, this is a nation that throughout its history was plundered and conquered by superior races coming from the west.....and they don't forget it. Hindus have a particular inferiority complex that their history books literally preach and the result is you have the largest paper democratic country full of hatred and non-sense.

 

[hnn]

Either country? Pakistan is being appreciated all over the world for its maturity and level headedness during the intense 4 days conflict.

Lol, why do you keep misunderstanding my posts? Is nuclear fallout in the interest of either country's existence?

The second part of your post is what I am pointing out and why Pakistan probably showed restraint. Read your post's second part and then tie it back to my post's "consequences not in the interest of either country"

 

[Starlord]

1 question that is still unanswered, why didnt we see any debris from IAF AAM in Pakistan territory ? did they not fire a single AAM towards Pakistan? we know some PL-15's missed their marks and Indians found their debri's.

 

[Cipher212]

1 question that is still unanswered, why didnt we see any debris from IAF AAM in Pakistan territory ? did they not fire a single AAM towards Pakistan? we know some PL-15's missed their marks and Indians found their debri's.

It seems very likely that they couldn't fire a single one. Not in 2019 and not 2025.

 

[kimjongun]

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[hasssanali8998]

 

[Starlord]

Santa after reading IAF Christmas wish list..

 

[TAC]

Ok, so the basic argument is about narrative war and not actual damage.
Now, I have a question... kindly tell me that if Indians have produced a single proof to support their claims of shooting PAF aircraft?
The high-res imagery you mentioned was for ground targets only, right?
[/QUOTE]
Beware of who you are debating with….specifically ‘neutrals’ hiding behind VPN’s and sneak pushing the Indian narrative on PDF. Ie, PAF won in the air but India won on the ground, so ‘all square’. Pakistani tendency to self flagellate even when they achieve success beyond anyone’s wildest dreams gives them fertile grounds to push their cope.

 

[Oscar]

Ok, so the basic argument is about narrative war and not actual damage.
Now, I have a question... kindly tell me that if Indians have produced a single proof to support their claims of shooting PAF aircraft?
The high-res imagery you mentioned was for ground targets only, right?

Beware of who you are debating with….specifically ‘neutrals’ hiding behind VPN’s and sneak pushing the Indian narrative on PDF. Ie, PAF won in the air but India won on the ground, so ‘all square’. Pakistani tendency to self flagellate even when they achieve success beyond anyone’s wildest dreams gives them fertile grounds to push their cope.
[/QUOTE]
Lets stop boxing everyone into "Indians" just because you dont agree with their narrative. Been doing this forum crap since 2006 and there are literally only 15 usual suspects from Chooha tatti forum and others who keep using VPNs and VMs to keep registered new profiles and coming into post.

As far as the questioning goes - it is important to question.
Acdre Cecil Chaudhry was known to "embellish" his stories - doesnt mean he wasnt a "good officer" but that is it. Today as well we have leadership as in the past of TC Variety and mediocre individuals who make up claims or deflect to hide mistakes.

It is very good to question, but question with logic. Criticism for the sake of criticism is as bad as swallowing it all hook, line and sinker.

 

[RocketLaw]

Great discussions here from Dr. David Oulaalou's perspective.

India Exposed after Pakistan attack

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up to 17:30

 

[Oscar]

I was serving in AHQ at that time and part of the team Swift Retort. So let's keep this discussion for another time when we wrap up this one.

That is actually another issue regarding PR and disclosure of info.

As an e.g. I also know of two individuals who were in the air during SR from 29sq - and so when asked regd Su-30 they made a statement which aligns with ELINT+HUMINT confirming it went down. Did it go down immediately or did it crash while in the vicinity of Avantipur are two things I have heard but the latter is from an individual not involved in SR but at AHQ. Ab kiski baat sunein? There too there is no picture.

Going further back some 14 years ago I am chatting with a former CPD JF-17 in a casual setting and I mention a low RCS mirage that was done. His eyes went up and asked me "who told you that?!".
Now I didnt tell him that I was told than as a 13 year old from a then Head of Kamra.

Can I prove it to you? No
Ab agar aik AVM ko terah saal ke bachey ki knowledge facinate ki, unhun ne lambi guftugu ki aur bohat kuch bataya tu ab kiski "ghalati" ya kaun si baat ko sachai ka tarazu mein tola jaye??

 

[puttputt]

That is actually another issue regarding PR and disclosure of info.

As an e.g. I also know of two individuals who were in the air during SR from 29sq - and so when asked regd Su-30 they made a statement which aligns with ELINT+HUMINT confirming it went down. Did it go down immediately or did it crash while in the vicinity of Avantipur are two things I have heard but the latter is from an individual not involved in SR but at AHQ. Ab kiski baat sunein? There too there is no picture.

Going further back some 14 years ago I am chatting with a former CPD JF-17 in a casual setting and I mention a low RCS mirage that was done. His eyes went up and asked me "who told you that?!".
Now I didnt tell him that I was told than as a 13 year old from a then Head of Kamra.

Can I prove it to you? No
Ab agar aik AVM ko terah saal ke bachey ki knowledge facinate ki, unhun ne lambi guftugu ki aur bohat kuch bataya tu ab kiski "ghalati" ya kaun si baat ko sachai ka tarazu mein tola jaye??

Not sure if you recall, but there was also once an Atlas Cheetah in town (possibly as part of the H2/H4 program) that was mistaken for a "MiG-29 with canards."

 

[Cipher212]

No worries but now I am actually confused this debate started yesterday in the J-10 thread on the topic of Brahmos threat... many were of the opinion that India has the capability to take out multiple PAF bases, evident by the strikes in May... I disagreed with that due to multiple reasons.
Now, if we are not continuing that discussion, I am all ears about your views because as I said, I thought the topic is still PAF vs IAF.

They've proven that they can hit our runways. All the way to Sargodha. A real conflict will have higher number of incoming projectiles. What good is an airbase if you can't takeoff from it?

PAF must improve air defence and rapid runway repairs.

 

[Oscar]

Not sure if you recall, but there was also once an Atlas Cheetah in town (possibly as part of the H2/H4 program) that was mistaken for a "MiG-29 with canards."

Dont know about the Cheetah.
But the Mig-29 with Canards goes to a differrent story altogether.
Many many years ago - there was a discovery channel program on secret files or projects or something.
I remember it because I saw it on the early satellite dish version of discovery in between ruining my eyes and education binge watching cartoon network.

This particular program had a "expert" who was claiming about US operations with satellites and SR-71s with agents trying to check on world nuclear programs including Pakistan. And this expert claimed Pakistan has a secret base in Baluchistan in a cave where they keep their nuclear force - and is guarded by "Mig-29s with canards".

 

[Oscar]

They've proven that they can hit our runways. All the way to Sargodha. A real conflict will have higher number of incoming projectiles. What good is an airbase if you can't takeoff from it?

PAF must improve air defence and rapid runway repairs.

They could hit your runways well before this -
But for launch points even at maximum range of Scalp it is around 20-25 minutes or so while your warning point based on rcs of scalp is probably no more than 8 minutes or so.

Brahmos on the other hand can be at location within 15 minutes from a ground launch point @side-winder. But because of RCS and general flight profile is an easier detection if difficult target solution.