CCS clears AMCA for IAF

[Deino]

Tejas Mk2 was not delayed.

If Govt refuse to disperse the funds, how would engineers do the prototyping.

The day funds are released, actually at that date actual R&D start.

Before that all is chaff and flare.

Well, based on all claims and official announcements it is delayed. Period!

It was always claimed since months if not since more than a year, the first prototype would be already under construction: Per common reports, metal-cutting for the first Tejas Mk. 2 prototype started in February 2021. The "roll out" of this prototype was scheduled for August 2022, but has been postponed to end of 2022 and its maiden flight was expected to be in late 2023.

however - and that's indeed correct - only on September 1, 2022, the CCS cleared ₹10,000 crore for the Tejas Mk 2 that includes prototype development and flight testing. ... as such the delays and still HAL planned high speed taxi trials from 2023 on and limited series production from 2025 on.

As such all along in 2022 it was maintained that despite previous delays the first prototype would roll out by December 2023 and the first flight would happen by December 2024 with four prototypes expected to be completed by 2027 for testing purpose.

However, in December 2023 a revised schedule with a fresh four-year delay was announced due to waiting upon the government to provide development funding for the program and the government increasing the requirement for parts indigenization from 65% to 80%, these factors resulted in the first aircraft rollout now not being expected until late 2026 or early 2027 and the first test flight now not expected to occur until 2028.

Not sure, how this could be called NOT a delay regardless all reasons for it?

 

[kaku]

Well, based on all claims and official announcements it is delayed. Period!

It was always claimed since months if not since more than a year, the first prototype would be already under construction: Per common reports, metal-cutting for the first Tejas Mk. 2 prototype started in February 2021. The "roll out" of this prototype was scheduled for August 2022, but has been postponed to end of 2022 and its maiden flight was expected to be in late 2023.

however - and that's indeed correct - only on September 1, 2022, the CCS cleared ₹10,000 crore for the Tejas Mk 2 that includes prototype development and flight testing. ... as such the delays and still HAL planned high speed taxi trials from 2023 on and limited series production from 2025 on.

As such all along in 2022 it was maintained that despite previous delays the first prototype would roll out by December 2023 and the first flight would happen by December 2024 with four prototypes expected to be completed by 2027 for testing purpose.

However, in December 2023 a revised schedule with a fresh four-year delay was announced due to waiting upon the government to provide development funding for the program and the government increasing the requirement for parts indigenization from 65% to 80%, these factors resulted in the first aircraft rollout now not being expected until late 2026 or early 2027 and the first test flight now not expected to occur until 2028.

Not sure, how this could not be called a delay regardless all reasons for it?

Because that was fanboys who believed without any development funds, they able to do prototyping.

Again all the timelines, claims, counter claims are chaff and flares before CCS clearance.
Things only gets cleared after CCS clearance, and timelines becomes clear.

the only delay happened because F414 clause, but this unlikely to happen in AMCA.

 

[Deino]

Because that was fanboys who believed without any development funds, they able to do prototyping.

Again all the timelines, claims, counter claims are chaff and flares before CCS clearance.
Things only gets cleared after CCS clearance, and timelines becomes clear.

the only delay happened because F414 clause, but this unlikely to happen in AMCA.

Ah, so all official announcements so far were only made by fan-boys?

In fact it is exactly what I say since years and why India is not really taken seriously by international observers: If you're not sure whether you can do it or simply not sure about certain things like configuration, avionics, propulsion, financing or simply the needs of the air force, then it always makes sense to just keep calm and not go around blabbing about when what might happen and how.
First do it, then announce it. No wonder the whole of India is celebrating the Tejas programme as an outstanding success ... Only yesterday I had to deal with such a child who wanted to explain to me that "his Tejas" is superior to any J-20 in everything.

 

[DDG-80]

 

[kaku]

Ah, so all official announcements so far were only made by fan-boys?

In fact it is exactly what I say since years and why India is not really taken seriously by international observers: If you're not sure whether you can do it or simply not sure about certain things like configuration, avionics, propulsion, financing or simply the needs of the air force, then it always makes sense to just keep calm and not go around blabbing about when what might happen and how.
First do it, then announce it. No wonder the whole of India is celebrating the Tejas programme as an outstanding success ... Only yesterday I had to deal with such a child who wanted to explain to me that "his Tejas" is superior to any J-20 in everything.

Can you show which official announcements? Official announcements are only made through PIB channels, the last update about AMCA through official channel was in 2022 I think, when DRDO approached CCS. And btw, no official announcement even for this news exist right now, might be we get it in morning, but right now it’s not an official announcement.

And those who follow Indian defence knows, HAL have their own agenda and ADA have their own.

Further, why anyone care about international observers. International observers are not taxpayers.

If an indian taxpayer asked this, then HAL have the duty to explain why HAL chairman was giving such timelines, when the product development was not even under them.

 

[Bigda_Jatt]

Yeah we are doing catch up. Now go to sleep.

Arey Raja flags toh dekh le, AMCA could have got the CCS approval way back in 2015-16 if IAF was one bit serious, i am happy for IAF.

 

[GatlingGun]

Arey Raja flags toh dekh le, AMCA could have got the CCS approval way back in 2015-16 if IAF was one bit serious, i am happy for IAF.

Arre uske liye tech to develop hone dete. Ab Jaa ke to AESA GaN/GaS radars/jammers, ISRT, RAM coating ban rahe hai.
Khaali khokhe me foreign tech lagane se better hai delay.

 

[DDG-80]

View attachment 24219
View attachment 24220

The most important thing here would be the radar which is developed by the LRDE and capable of 550 K.M. plus detection range. It's a miracle to be developed in India.

 

[kaku]

Arey Raja flags toh dekh le, AMCA could have got the CCS approval way back in 2015-16 if IAF was one bit serious, i am happy for IAF.

2015 main AMCA paper plane tha, while Tejas was failed project, and we were thinking about procuring FGFA. Kanha se karte.

 

[DDG-80]

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[lightoftruth]

Way too delayed ,but good news.

We need them in numbers as soon as possible.

 

[kaku]

First do it, then announce it. No wonder the whole of India is celebrating the Tejas programme as an outstanding success ... Only yesterday I had to deal with such a child who wanted to explain to me that "his Tejas" is superior to any J-20 in everything.

I can’t resist to answer this but, India is a free country. Might be you are so much involved with Chinese, then you forgotten German values.

India is not like where you criticise AMCA, then you get censored, or if someone try to prove Maruti 800 able to fight Battlestar gallactica, you get promoted.

We ask questions, we criticise it , we promote it . We do whatever we want.

India is not like where you ask intrinsic details and criticise it, you get censored.

So ,no thank you, we are happy like we are.

 

[Pingle]

Good news.... but still can't see this program taking any speed.... this is just approval given..... knowing our speed funds allocation may take another 1 or 2 or even 3 years easily..... then the prototype construction will start..... meanwhile knowing retarded IAF they may come again with some "CHANGES" and delay it further....

 

[indushek]

Well, based on all claims and official announcements it is delayed. Period!

It was always claimed since months if not since more than a year, the first prototype would be already under construction: Per common reports, metal-cutting for the first Tejas Mk. 2 prototype started in February 2021. The "roll out" of this prototype was scheduled for August 2022, but has been postponed to end of 2022 and its maiden flight was expected to be in late 2023.

however - and that's indeed correct - only on September 1, 2022, the CCS cleared ₹10,000 crore for the Tejas Mk 2 that includes prototype development and flight testing. ... as such the delays and still HAL planned high speed taxi trials from 2023 on and limited series production from 2025 on.

As such all along in 2022 it was maintained that despite previous delays the first prototype would roll out by December 2023 and the first flight would happen by December 2024 with four prototypes expected to be completed by 2027 for testing purpose.

However, in December 2023 a revised schedule with a fresh four-year delay was announced due to waiting upon the government to provide development funding for the program and the government increasing the requirement for parts indigenization from 65% to 80%, these factors resulted in the first aircraft rollout now not being expected until late 2026 or early 2027 and the first test flight now not expected to occur until 2028.

Not sure, how this could be called NOT a delay regardless all reasons for it?

Few things to keep on mind

While the CCS did give approval, funds were not released. The reason being told and that actually makes sense, is that GOI wanted F-414 deal to be done before rolling prototypes out. The F-414 deal itself was stuck, because of the TOT discussions along with local manufacturing. Only after GOI felt its a done deal, the funds were released.

HAL could only do so much with internal funds, crossing which it has to wait for funds from Cabinet.

Is it a delay ? yes
Did some long-term thinking go into it? I feel yes

From this point, its everybody's opinion so one can feel free to express it.

 

[indushek]

Ah, so all official announcements so far were only made by fan-boys?

In fact it is exactly what I say since years and why India is not really taken seriously by international observers: If you're not sure whether you can do it or simply not sure about certain things like configuration, avionics, propulsion, financing or simply the needs of the air force, then it always makes sense to just keep calm and not go around blabbing about when what might happen and how.
First do it, then announce it. No wonder the whole of India is celebrating the Tejas programme as an outstanding success ... Only yesterday I had to deal with such a child who wanted to explain to me that "his Tejas" is superior to any J-20 in everything.

Who exactly are these International observers?
What do they do, when it comes to our National security?
Other than civilians trying to feel proud, of whatever the country's progress is, where did you see the official announcement of 'we are great' ?

If you can't deal with a child, I wonder how you deal with adults?

Finally do you mean to say, no discussion has to happen till the product is out?
If some guy says Tejas is superb compared to F-22, does it hurt anyone? It's his opinion, and he has every right to his opinion however stupid it is.

Make up your mind, and don't pass cynical comments. Try to be constructive, you are a Intl Mod for god sake.