PTI News, Updates and Discussion

[Oscar]

The issues of Pakistan are of 'governance'.
As to the rest of your post, TBH, I barely skimmed that but that was mostly because I was broadly in agreement. Where my disagreement with potentially you and others is: Imran's personality flaws. I have come to conclude that the guy is beyond redemption just like Altaf Hussein and Nawaz Sharif were. I don't see any redeeming qualities in those three leaders and all of them were/are hugely popular in their zeniths. But I see them as psychopaths and all being sidelined.

Do we look at the flaws of Ghulam Mohammad, Bhutto, Zia, Musharraf(personal witness) and even the current gentleman?
I agree that on a pure "plenty of fish in the sea" view there are no good choices here but neither are in my view many of those in uniform.

So as we act as judge and jury on IK, perhaps we should look at the other Judge , Jury and executioner with the same sharp lens as well.

After all, for years the western media portrayed Aung Soon Kyi as the second coming of Christ for Burma until her rule actually exposed her for who she really was especially with the Rohingya.

 

[Oscar]

My "theory" on all of this remains my "corporate" and "consulting" bias.
There are leaders best suited for revolutions - there the Karl Marxs and Lenins - and then there are Khruschevs, Brezhnevs and so on.
The revolutionary figurehead isnt always the best one for running the country post revolution - unfortunately, human history has taken the token few which were including our prophet - and used them as gauges to state that if they could do it then so can these individuals JUST BECAUSE they either are poo analogies or imitate the messaging of such great men in certain stages.

 

[Meengla]

I agree that on a pure "plenty of fish in the sea" view there are no good choices here but neither are in my view many of those in uniform.
So as we act as judge and jury on IK, perhaps we should look at the other Judge , Jury and executioner with the same sharp lens as well.

A disclosure: as I have stated before, I am an UNabashed supporter of the current military led 'hybrid' order in Pakistan--I don't hide behind 'democracy' or some higher ideals. Practicality, especially over the next 10-15 years is on my mind all the time when it comes to Pakistan. I also think the current ruling classes have at least 70% of popular votes even if they might have been defeated in a parliamentary system.

I want to look forward. VCheng and I differ significantly on path forward but we are both very cognizant of what happened in the past--and apparently you too are aware of the past.

 

[Meengla]

@Oscar : Where is your 'sons of soil' theory, please?

 

[Oscar]

@Oscar : Where is your 'sons of soil' theory, please?

"The argument about ethnic roots proving “groundedness” is historically selective. Being indigenous to a region does not automatically translate to political stability or shared purpose. The Balkans, the Horn of Africa, and the Middle East are filled with indigenous groups locked in chronic instability. Pakistan’s internal coherence will depend not on who lived there for centuries but on how well its institutions can accommodate competing regional interests."

 

[airhead]

The sad part is that Cartoon-e-Azam Imran Khan still wants to be a "military tout", but the military are not interested in him singing "Same page, same page" five times again.

They think he is a pathetic human being who just lives off other people. And, as the Prime Minister of Pakistan, his leadership was detrimental to the State leading to the annexation of Kashmir, as well deteriorating relations with Pakistan's traditional friends and allies.

Personally, I think he is a racist pig who believes in Afghan racial supremacy and he doesnt like the idea of Pakistan being stronger than Afghanistan. That's just my personal opinion. Allah knows best.

You should see Ik in the 80s and you will see if he was a tout or not . Zia ul haq used the beg to him to come back…ik thought army guys were just Morons as he mentioned in numerous meetings l he was no tout .l. He built his own movement and yes like many he got some help and yes he used the help where he could

 

[Meengla]

"The argument about ethnic roots proving “groundedness” is historically selective. Being indigenous to a region does not automatically translate to political stability or shared purpose. The Balkans, the Horn of Africa, and the Middle East are filled with indigenous groups locked in chronic instability. Pakistan’s internal coherence will depend not on who lived there for centuries but on how well its institutions can accommodate competing regional interests."

I dont' think any rational person would differ with you on the quoted post.

 

[Oscar]

You should see Ik in the 80s and you will see if he was a tout or not . Zia ul haq used the beg to him to come back…ik thought army guys were just Morons as he mentioned in numerous meetings l he was no tout .l. He built his own movement and yes like many he got some help and yes he used the help where he could

He was never a "tout" - but he did have sponsors throughout history and also very "instinctive/selective" on his team regardless of merit or not. That also applied to his "sponsors".

 

[Meengla]

You should see Ik in the 80s and you will see if he was a tout or not . Zia ul haq used the beg to him to come back…ik thought army guys were just Morons as he mentioned in numerous meetings l he was no tout .l. He built his own movement and yes like many he got some help and yes he used the help where he could

You guys, in your Imran Khan God Worshipping Syndrome, just go too far: General Zia ul Haq wanted the cricketer Imran Khan to come back to play for Pakistan because Pakistan needed Imran as a cricketer then; Imran had some 'injury' and wanted to 'retire'. Nothing more. Nothing less. And that was in the mid 80s and Imran's political rise didn't start until early 2010s, duly helped by the military of Pakistan.
Why do you guys damage your credibility with such bizarre posts?!!

 

[Oscar]

A disclosure: as I have stated before, I am an UNabashed supporter of the current military led 'hybrid' order in Pakistan--I don't hide behind 'democracy' or some higher ideals. Practicality, especially over the next 10-15 years is on my mind all the time when it comes to Pakistan. I also think the current ruling classes have at least 70% of popular votes even if they might have been defeated in a parliamentary system.

I want to look forward. VCheng and I differ significantly on path forward but we are both very cognizant of what happened in the past--and apparently you too are aware of the past.

I would vehemently disagree on the pure practicality and chances of success of the current setup as well. Because it's success lies on the notion that corruption is reduced which would be the enabler of market dynamics and rules to enable progress.
Knowing exactly who is part of these hybrid setup(tried before during Musharraf's era with PMLQ and PML(Junejo)) and the nature of individuals, democracy or not - is is bound to fail with even more spectacular disasters than pure dictatorships, dynastic "democratic" setups or "selected" ones like PTI.

 

[Meengla]

I would vehemently disagree on the pure practicality and chances of success of the current setup as well. Because it's success lies on the notion that corruption is reduced which would be the enabler of market dynamics and rules to enable progress.
Knowing exactly who is part of these hybrid setup(tried before during Musharraf's era with PMLQ and PML(Junejo)) and the nature of individuals, democracy or not - is is bound to fail with even more spectacular disasters than pure dictatorships, dynastic "democratic" setups or "selected" ones like PTI.

Only time will tell. As I saw from Imran's 'team selection' and his only partial interests in governance versus what is being planned now--I am more optimistic about the future then I was under the Imran regime was. A guy getting his 'advice' from his Witch Wife was not fit to rule Pakistan.
But only time will tell. We can exchange some numbers in, say, 2030??

 

[Oscar]

Only time will tell. As I saw from Imran's 'team selection' and his only partial interests in governance versus what is being planned now--I am more optimistic about the future then I was under the Imran regime was. A guy getting his 'advice' from his Witch Wife was not fit to rule Pakistan.
But only time will tell. We can exchange some numbers in, say, 2030??

Sure, we could do that again and again but we know the issue isnt as myopic as IK and Melisandre.
IK is just a face, so is the FM.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

I think if PTI wants that path, they can do that like JUI, JI, MQM, PPP and PMLN. Now, they don't want it, so it is their choice.

Its no longer on offer or an option for PTI simply because PTI went too far in following a mentally ill psychopath who wished for an atom bomb to be dropped on Pakistan than to see another political party govern Pakistan.

Heck, even Mujib-ur-Rehman didn't seek independence for East Pakistan but Indian invasion turned it into one.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

good political/street activity

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[Meengla]

View attachment 167864

A most telling part of Imran's sacrifices, as @VCheng pointed out some pages ago: Imran's sons barely saw him even when Imran was the Prime Minister of Pakistan and have barely been to Pakistan or even spoken for Imran since Imran's incarceration. A VERY telling indicator about Imran's family ties!! Just think about that.