Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[Starlord]

Depends on the system. HIMAD systems like S400 / HQ9 take around 30 mins i believe. You will need to connect the command vehicle with radar and batteries through RF antennas. Power connections. Erecting the launchers. Then earthing connections. System power up. BIT checks. Radar optimization etc

Proficiency and skill level of manpower may affect the timings.

Even if the you have pre-determined sites for your AD's in case the site A is compromised you can move your AD to a site B which is pre-selected for a quicker set up? Is that possible or for a HIMAD systems its a given that it will take around 30ish minutes to setup ? either way if S-400 did make a escape but like Oscar said, it still was good for PAF.

 

[kimjongun]

Depends on the system. HIMAD systems like S400 / HQ9 take around 30 mins i believe. You will need to connect the command vehicle with radar and batteries through RF antennas. Power connections. Erecting the launchers. Then earthing connections. System power up. BIT checks. Radar optimization etc

Proficiency and skill level of manpower may affect the timi

Also wouldnt you need to select the are pror to setting up...like clearnce and protection from sabotage , videography etc etc ?

 

[side-winder]

Even if the you have pre-determined sites for your AD's in case the site A is compromised you can move your AD to a site B which is pre-selected for a quicker set up? Is that possible or for a HIMAD systems its a given that it will take around 30ish minutes to setup ? either way if S-400 did make a escape but like Oscar said, it still was good for PAF.

Usually relocation is done to a pre-determined location. But you can't skip all those steps. Can you?

 

[Burhaan7487]

Me specifically? No. People on the forum? In a matter of speaking, yes. You keep repeating your claims - what other purpose is there other than to convince us by trusting you?


As I argued, it actually matters a lot what the INDIAN public thinks. I think it is obvious to everyone (and often repeated by even ISPR) that the Indian military is hostage to their public. Whether or not S400 is active or not is a debate for when a shooting war starts. Not about deterrence, which is by definition before a war starts. And S400 may play a part for India's deterrence but it is the Pakistan's deterrence that I am arguing about - Pakistan's deterrence needs to affect Indian public perception.


Bunyan un Marsoos


They lie so much it needs to be studied academically. However, we cannot base strategy on moral high ground that they lied. They lied? So what? Their public believed them. Deterrence failed just like that. Please read on on why I argue against your claim that deterrence was established.


Maybe I am not able to communicate this well enough. It doesn't matter what their tactical, strategic goals were and if they achieved them. What matters is what their public believed. Because whether we like it or not, THAT is what determines if India attacks Pakistan.

It is my opinion that it was the threat of escalation to possibly a nuclear level that forced the US to jump in. Nobody saw any evidence of massive conventional damage on the Indian side.

Khalid Kidwai confirmed that there was a missing rung in the escalation ladder giving the reason for the establishment of the rocket force.
View attachment 166636
The first paragraph also confirms my opinion. I believe we can all agree that Khalid Kidwai is a reliable source for these things.

@Panzerkiel, I think JamD has raised a critical point about needing affecters to push Indian public opinion to viewing peace as the only option.

I think this is where the CDF office could really show its value through the establishment of a joint services cognitive warfare operations group targeting decision-making, sense-making, or the “way people think” in India. If I’m not mistaken, I think the Chinese are working on such a cognitive domain to adopt data-driven, algorithmic targeting to change perception/decision processes of an adversary. I think I recall a video from Pravin Sawhney on the matter. Would be good to learn from them.

Judging by how things work in Pakistan however, the above is probably under the responsibility of the ISI.

I think another key affecter are cyber operations. During the May conflict India was subject to a number of focussed and successful cyber attacks according to the below source. These are the cyber attacks I was able to find which happened during the May conflict, though I am not sure of the accuracy, or of the net impact on the Indian public, and whether its forced a rethink:
1) May 10, 2025 At 15:39, the official website of the Ministry of Defence (MoD) (mod.gov.in) was attacked by a DDoS attack lasting 3 hours, 56 minutes and 57 seconds. Monitoring data showed that the attack used NTP reflection amplification.
2) May 10, 2025 At 18:59, the official website of the Press Information Bureau (PIB) of India (pib.gov.in) was attacked by a DDoS attack lasting 1 hour, 2 minutes and 37 seconds. The attack used DNS reflection amplification.
3) May 10, 2025 At 16:55, the Indian Prime Minister’s Office website (pmindia.gov.in) was hit by a DDoS attack lasting 1 hour, 51 minutes and 13 seconds. Monitoring data shows that the attack used DNS reflection amplification.
4) May 9, 2025 At 14:21, the Mirai botnet was detected targeting the government website of Jammu and Kashmir State, India (www.jkgad.nic.in). The attacker used the ACK Flood attack method.
5) May 7-8, 2025, the Indian Presidential Office website (presidentofindia.gov.in) suffered two consecutive rounds of DDoS attacks. Monitoring data shows that attackers use DNS reflection amplification to launch attacks. The first round of attacks began at 17:38 on May 7 and lasted for 2 hours, 16 minutes and 11 seconds; the second round of attacks was even worse, starting at 00:47 on May 8 and lasting 19 hours, 46 minutes and 29 seconds.
6) From May 7 to 8, 2025, the domain name resolution service (ns2.nic.in) of the Indian National Informatics Center suffered two consecutive rounds of DDoS attacks. Monitoring data shows that the attack used DNS reflection amplification to launch the attack. The first round of attacks began at 22:29:28 on May 7 and lasted 19 minutes and 03 seconds; the second round of attacks was even worse, starting at 00:46:44 on May 8 and lasting 1 hour, 05 minutes and 11 seconds.

Source:
https://nsfocusglobal.com/india-pak...ons-and-ddos-attacks-making-targeted-strikes/

 

[Starlord]

Usually relocation is done to a pre-determined location. But you can't skip all those steps. Can you?

True, I was just wondering how long it will take for a AD to move from pre-determined sites, and just move it out of the way of incoming missile in a last minute escape, but 30 mins sounds reasonable given AD systems are not as plug and playing a mouse to a PC.

 

[Oscar]

Noob Question, if you had to move a AD or its C&C vehicle or some Radar, how long it will take to set it up on a different location?

Think of it in terms of packing up a food truck or campsite - the more stuff you have to get out to set it up the more stuff you need to pack up as well.

So if you think in terms of food trucks, they usually arrive at their location at least 30-60 minutes in advance and then set up their generator, gas etc out of the vehicle for safety reasons - get all the grills/fryers etc operational before they are open for business.

Then when they wrap up they need to safe all the grills, put food away, close up and store gas cylinders properly and then last get the generator and otherwise stowed or safe.

Apply the same to a radar truck - @side-winder

 

[Oscar]

not an assumption on detection only......just that they have dense AD network.....so how did the CM400s slip through and enough that IAF decided to pack or protect the very S400 systems that they bought to deal with CM400 kind of threat.

Nothing slips through but there is everything from curvature of the earth to ability to actually get a firing solution on a warhead. Contrary to Bhakti claims their missiles aren't magic weapons(nor are Pakistan's) that can fly Mach 14 and get anywhere instantly.
There are firing solutions being calculated by fairly impressive chipsets on their SAM C&Cs but even in those cases the right amount of illumination and more importantly constant illumination is somewhat needed before a launch parameter(depending upon level set) can be made.

AFAIK the JF-17 that went after S-400 was locked up by S-400 radar but combo of sheer luck that S-400 did not fire(or in my theory the S-400 was caught with its pants down in terms of TEL readiness) and disciplined egress maneuver after launch it made it out alive. I have no idea whether or not S-400 engaged the CM-400 nor can anyone claim otherwise unless they have actual HUMINT or ELINT on that.

 

[Starlord]

Think of it in terms of packing up a food truck or campsite - the more stuff you have to get out to set it up the more stuff you need to pack up as well.

So if you think in terms of food trucks, they usually arrive at their location at least 30-60 minutes in advance and then set up their generator, gas etc out of the vehicle for safety reasons - get all the grills/fryers etc operational before they are open for business.

Then when they wrap up they need to safe all the grills, put food away, close up and store gas cylinders properly and then last get the generator and otherwise stowed or safe.

Apply the same to a radar truck - @side-winder

Whether it was last ditch effort to avoid a direct hit or a pre-planned move from site A to site B, as long as that move opens up a corridor for PAF to operate somewhat freely even for a short time would make a huge difference, like you and side-winder has been saying we don't need to hit AD directly to neutralize it, as long as they are down for XYZ reasons its a job done.

 

[kimjongun]

Nothing slips through but there is everything from curvature of the earth to ability to actually get a firing solution on a warhead. Contrary to Bhakti claims their missiles aren't magic weapons(nor are Pakistan's) that can fly Mach 14 and get anywhere instantly.
There are firing solutions being calculated by fairly impressive chipsets on their SAM C&Cs but even in those cases the right amount of illumination and more importantly constant illumination is somewhat needed before a launch parameter(depending upon level set) can be made.

AFAIK the JF-17 that went after S-400 was locked up by S-400 radar but combo of sheer luck that S-400 did not fire(or in my theory the S-400 was caught with its pants down in terms of TEL readiness) and disciplined egress maneuver after launch it made it out alive. I have no idea whether or not S-400 engaged the CM-400 nor can anyone claim otherwise unless they have actual HUMINT or ELINT on that.

Noob question :
Why wasnt our focus to damage a barak 8 battery in an airbase without s400 cover? or just every western indian airbase has s400 coverage?

 

[TAC]

Cost to benefit ratio … even if 7 Rafales were downed and no pilot life were lost I think India achieved all the objectives.

If India started with SEAD/DEAD that basically means starting a war and Indian objectives were just to hit terrorists safe havens in pakistan.

And the very next day after those strikes India told pakistan that we are good and will not strike or any more targets on cameras on 8th May morning but Pakistan wanted to continue despite claims of dropping down half a squadron or so of IAF

Besharam, utterly shameless people. You attack with twice the number of jets & end up losing at least 4 (confirmed without any shadow of a doubt) and almost certainly more (even BJP official confirmed 5) including your latest and greatest Ra-fail. You get them smashed in your own airspace and apparently the IAF was so hapless, they couldn’t even get an air to air missile off in response. Your officials then Confirming grounding your AF for 2 days ( in the middle of a 3 day war!!!?) while you sort your ‘tactics’ out. If any other country in world ‘achieved all the objectives’ like this, the PM, all his cronies, military leadership especially your AC would be out on their asses but not so in Bollywood world. Dube maro.

 

[Distant_Observer]

Pakistan's methodical breakdown of India's western command made many of the world powers realise Pakistan is emerging as a great military power.

All the think tanks, all the TOTs, all the training for over 20 years still cannot substitute raw power and Chinese engineering.

If this conflict had continued they would have started bombing Delhi and their HVTs. India was beginning to lose control and started begging for a ceasefire.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[AeronautIR]

Noob question :
Why wasnt our focus to damage a barak 8 battery in an airbase without s400 cover? or just every western indian airbase has s400 coverage?

Theoretically, with 400 km range, S-400 coverage was in all bases. @side-winder am I right?

 

[Oscar]

Noob question :
Why wasnt our focus to damage a barak 8 battery in an airbase without s400 cover? or just every western indian airbase has s400 coverage?

They have 3 operational batteries:
Adampur, Bhuj and one to the north west of Dehli.
Adampur and Bhuj were priority one. After the SEAD effort against them the Dehli battery was withdrawn as well - remember these arent exactly cheap systems regardless of how big India's coffers are and if you have ever seen the smart Indian folks they throw a hissy fit if their cheap model Y gets a scratch so imagine their concern with the S-400.

Barak 8's arent at every base yet regardless of Bharat Rikshaw claims - they have yet to fully get their networking properly operational in every one of their bases although have made great strides. Their primary fallback was still what works which is the Pechora.

You can imagine how poor their networking use and implementation actually is regardless of the hulabullo they made around IACCS that they completely grounded every friendly(but not civillian interestingly) flight in particular areas during the nights for BuM. Which tells you that they have all the academic books and systems but cannot trust any of their controllers to coordinate even piecemeal AD against drones.

SAM systems form part of a layer, they cannot be the only layer.

 

[Jango]

Depends on the system. HIMAD systems like S400 / HQ9 take around 30 mins i believe. You will need to connect the command vehicle with radar and batteries through RF antennas. Power connections. Erecting the launchers. Then earthing connections. System power up. BIT checks. Radar optimization etc

Proficiency and skill level of manpower may affect the timings.

Interesting...I always thought the inter-communication between the different components would be hard wired. Learn something new everyday!

 

[Maarkhoor]

India accepted looses of aircraft but another way and in that process they even accepted more looses in 1965 and 1971 wars.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

What a fine example of looser just to put back colored dhoti of Modi which was colored by himself while hidining in a bunker and the daal hi eat colored hi dhoti.