JF-17 PFX program

[FuturePAF]

Maybe, You can check the following:
What are the supported interface transfer speeds of the new graphics cards currently sold on the market?
What is the maximum transfer speed supported by the graphics card interface of a motherboard from 14 years ago?
Of course, you can force them to be compatible. However, the new graphics card will have to operate at reduced efficiency.

You will encounter similar problems when upgrading older fighter jets.

The goal being to meet the current need, while the new rig is in development. I’m sure a lot of experience has been gained by developing the new block 3 JF-17; which subsystems need to be swapped to make the application of the KLJ-7A possible.

The JF-17 program started by decoupling the air frame development from the avionics. This just takes that philosophy to its maximal conclusion, get what you can from the air frame, and then move on when ready.

We have established the PFX will feature the same class of engine (hopefully with a decent improvement in thrust and electrical power), so if we go with the best radar we can put on the older blocks, when the time for the “organ transplant” occurs, the new platform will be built around maximizing the capacities of the radar and avionics in hand, for the first block of the PFX. The right amount of cooling, power supply, networking, IFF integration, EW integration, AI integration, etc.

From this experience, future blocks of PFX can have new bespoke radars, with the latest specs of that time.

 

[Michael]

The goal being to meet the current need, while the new rig is in development. I’m sure a lot of experience has been gained by developing the new block 3 JF-17; which subsystems need to be swapped to make the application of the KLJ-7A possible.

The JF-17 program started by decoupling the air frame development from the avionics. This just takes that philosophy to its maximal conclusion, get what you can from the air frame, and then move on when ready.

We have established the PFX will feature the same class of engine (hopefully with a decent improvement in thrust and electrical power), so if we go with the best radar we can put on the older blocks, when the time for the “organ transplant” occurs, the new platform will be built around maximizing the capacities of the radar and avionics in hand, for the first block of the PFX. The right amount of cooling, power supply, networking, IFF integration, EW integration, AI integration, etc.

From this experience, future blocks of PFX can have new bespoke radars, with the latest specs of that time.

1. The JF-17B3 utilizes technology directly transferred from other advanced systems by CAC, and therefore does not present significant technical development challenges.

2. The PFX project remains an unknown quantity. We should avoid making excessive assumptions.

=======================================

We need to understand the relationship between platform systems and subsystems in product development.

When developing a product, its platform capabilities usually predetermine the scope for upgrades and use for many years to come. That is, platform capability represents the upper limit of a product's capabilities. When all subsystems have reached the limits of the platform's capabilities, it means that the product is about to begin its obsolescence. We can choose to develop a new platform or completely upgrade the old one. However, upgrading a platform is an extremely complex process; it is almost equivalent to redesigning a new platform, and the original subsystems will no longer be compatible.

 

[jamal18]

In my analog, I upgrade the graphics card to the latest specs, and still let it live out on that older rig until the new rig is ready. I gave an option 3, if it is technically possible.

It is the same as a SABR upgrade on the F-16. That radar could outlive the air frame and make its way into a new air frame down the line with better cooling and other system to make full use of its features.

I think I know what you mean. Squeeze as much as you can out of the old technology, the maximum bang per buck.

Of course at some stage a new purchase is inevitable.

 

[hasssanali8998]

If only the JF17 really did look like that.

hey hey , not another word . jeff hate will not be tolerated

 

[PakShaheen_79]

158 pages .. Do we even know what's the current status of PFX. Has it left paper or drawing board or not yet?

 

[Ali_Baba]

In my analog, I upgrade the graphics card to the latest specs, and still let it live out on that older rig until the new rig is ready. I gave an option 3, if it is technically possible.

It is the same as a SABR upgrade on the F-16. That radar could outlive the air frame and make its way into a new air frame down the line with better cooling and other system to make full use of its features.

if PAF did get the SABR, then ideally they should ask for the integration specs and associated API to allow it to be integrated onto other platforms down the road ? It does depend on the architecture of the radar and associated ecosystem of where the processing happens. The systems are modular, and all over a variant of the MIL-STD-1760/1553 bus anyway. The fact that it is a "drop in upgrade" would suggest that it is self contained and therefore reusable as you suggest.

It being the USA, i suspect there is no options to reuse the radar elsewhere once the host platform is retired.

 

[FuturePAF]

if PAF did get the SABR, then ideally they should ask for the integration specs and associated API to allow it to be integrated onto other platforms down the road ? It does depend on the architecture of the radar and associated ecosystem of where the processing happens. The systems are modular, and all over a variant of the MIL-STD-1760/1553 bus anyway. The fact that it is a "drop in upgrade" would suggest that it is self contained and therefore reusable as you suggest.

It being the USA, i suspect there is no options to reuse the radar elsewhere once the host platform is retired.

I give the example of the SABR as a drop in upgrade that works with the available power, data processing and cooling of the platform. Equally, maxing out what we can do with the JF-17 Block 2 aircraft is about finding a way to stretch our resources, to have modern cap abilities in hand in numbers.

What I gather from @Michael is that there is a point of diminishing return, and building a new platform is necessary to be able to make proper use of the expensive radar and avionics, as well as there is a limit to how much that older JF-17 Block 2 can really make use of the modern radar and avionics anyway.

What would really help is if the PAF released more specs on what the PFX is expected to look like and be able to perform, but that could undermine the needed secrecy for the project, so we will just have to speculate until we see a prototype. Also, the decision to upgrade or not will therefore happen behind closed doors, and we will only know after the fact, IMHO, based on the progress of the PFX project. I only see an upgrade happening if the project looks to be stalling; on technical or financial reasons.

 

[Michael]

I give the example of the SABR as a drop in upgrade that works with the available power, data processing and cooling of the platform. Equally, maxing out what we can do with the JF-17 Block 2 aircraft is about finding a way to stretch our resources, to have modern cap abilities in hand in numbers.

What I gather from @Michael is that there is a point of diminishing return, and building a new platform is necessary to be able to make proper use of the expensive radar and avionics, as well as there is a limit to how much that older JF-17 Block 2 can really make use of the modern radar and avionics anyway.

What would really help is if the PAF released more specs on what the PFX is expected to look like and be able to perform, but that could undermine the needed secrecy for the project, so we will just have to speculate until we see a prototype. Also, the decision to upgrade or not will therefore happen behind closed doors, and we will only know after the fact, IMHO, based on the progress of the PFX project. I only see an upgrade happening if the project looks to be stalling; on technical or financial reasons.

When I studied and learned this knowledge, I relied entirely on Chinese materials and papers. I couldn't find the corresponding English technical terms. Machine translation software usually makes many errors.

Fortunately, you understood what I was trying to express.

According to the latest academic papers, many of China's current and future advanced weapon platforms are extensively using fiber optic data transmission. This means they are completely incompatible with many older platforms (which use traditional communication cables).
Of course, it's possible to use additional optoelectronic conversion modules to make these devices compatible, but the communication efficiency would be severely reduced, and the modification costs would be high. It's not worthwhile.

 

[studsmart]

Do you know how much a KLJ-7A radar system costs?
Is it worth spending that much money to upgrade those old JF-17s?

Per my estimates, it will take approximately 15-18 million USD to upgrade block 1 and 13-15 million USD to upgrade block 2, including engine upgrades and avionics. I am not sure about the additional HP. There is another twist: the initial batches of blk1 could cost a bit more than later examples of blk2.

 

[Venom]

I don't think blk 1 will be included in those upgrades... just block 2 can be upgraded.

Can you also tell us what is the objective of PFX? Is it jf17 blk 4? And when can we see it entering production of service (if ever).

 

[Maarkhoor]

JF-17 Stealth version,
Kaan Project,
J-31
and Our own stealth fighter jet programe.

Wgich one going to be taken seriously?

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

JF-17 Stealth version,
Kaan Project,
J-31
and Our own stealth fighter jet programe.

Wgich one going to be taken seriously?

Most likely KAAN project with 50% technology transfer and unmanned plane.

 

[Maarkhoor]

Most likely KAAN project with 50% technology transfer and unmanned plane.

My guess will be J-31 or J-35 with JF-17 like TOT.

 

[Be dazzled]

Block 2s and 2Bs were built from ground up for upgrades with strengthened wings but not block 1s. If anything they'll require major restructuring and strengthening of wings and airframe to accommodate block 3 capability. Can be done but will expensive.

Almost half of the 2Bs may house aesa and pl15 wingtip rails.

 

[Michael]

Most likely KAAN project with 50% technology transfer and unmanned plane.

Regarding the complete KAAN fighter jet project, Türkiye itself doesn't possess 50% of the necessary technology, so how can it transfer 50% of the technology to Pakistan?

Complete fighter jet technology includes not only the design and manufacturing technology of the airframe, but also the technology of all subsystems, as well as the design and manufacturing technology of every single component.

Typically, when describing the proportion of technology used, we measure it by value proportion, not by the number or weight of parts.